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The Terrible Triplett

Water harvesting and use, same logic as solar systems.

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2 hours ago, gabriel said:

Since we keep on running like diversionary goose-chases... something I find interesting, on a day to day basis, is to find examples of the same basic idea that is more friendly towards the non-religious.

For example, something that's becoming more clear with scientific research, is just how much we are whole-body organisms and not just a brain driving a meat-mobile. Overall body chemistry, and especially brain chemistry, has an overwhelming effect on your well-being. This is in part why some new-age nonsense (apologies if I offend anyone, but I think "The Secret" is new-age nonsense) does actually work on some level... just not for the reasons you might think. Similarly, homoeopathy does work, but not for the reasons you think. Staying positive DOES help, "sending good thoughts" probably helps the sender more than the receiver but does help, prayer chains (God, if he exists, is outside of time... you really think he cares about a temporal chain?) does help. Hydrating your mind, as you say, even with things frowned upon by people of what you might call a more traditional disposition, things like meditation... these things actually work (though might not be optimal of course). Now as a religious man myself, I don't think the beneficial effects sufficiently explains it away, rather I think it points to an optimal point where you are aligned in faith and hope in such a manner that you don't become despondent... but with all that said, I am human, and I wish this drought was over already.

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12 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... I can see little wrong with just chlorinating the crap out of it ... high levels of chlorine is not kind to plastics, piping and so forth.

Mmmm ... will have to find the balance between the smell and future big replacement bills.

Must say, once the penny dropped on why bath and shower can become so dangerous, I am glad my focus was washing machine water ... was just easier.


5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I wish this drought was over already.

And I wish that we get full blown larger than life desalination plants, using wind + solar + Koeberg, so that the farmers and the smaller towns can have more than enough water from said dams, thereby securing a lot of food production and even more jobs.

That a bylaw is passed that all homes can install grid tied solar systems, to offset Koebergs re-appropriated power, for own use with surplus sent back to grid for supplement the power required for desalination.

And I wish it becomes a municipal bylaw that all new houses must have 5-10kl tanks, older homes are given 2 years to secure same, bought from CoCT at prices no-one can compete against, or even rent them from CoCT as we do the recycling and refuse drums, connected by a registered plumber as per regulations.

When I am President ... 

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13 minutes ago, gabriel said:

with so much common sense you'll never make it :D

I can play that game. Will sell it all the way to Sunday. From then on it will not really be much of a negotiation, more like the appearance of one. 

I like words like autocratic benevolent dictator. 

A Pressi still driving his Isuzu "Granny Wagon" to work, earning a low wage for it must be a calling, not a enrichment scheme and all that. O, and I will use Kulula to fly, still pay may bond for I am staying in my house. No need for a fire pool either.

Have all my advisory ministers penciled in already, people whom have a lot more common sense than I do, who can keep me grounded when I get a wee bit "lightheaded", about 4-5, who see it my way ito remuneration and all that. 

All is ready to roll ... 

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Found some interesting info here: http://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Procedures%2c guidelines and regulations/Disaster and demand FAQ.pdf

I quote: 

11. Will there be further water restrictions?
Yes. We assess the situation constantly. Decisions might be communicated at short notice due to the severity of the situation

15. How long do you expect this level of water restrictions to be in place?
At least three to five months, depending on how the situation unfolds.

16. I know that the focus is on Day Zero and avoiding it, but are we at a point where we are considering winter and what that will bring?
Currently, the long-term prediction is not favourable for good rain during the start of winter, in fact it indicates below normal rainfall. We are planning accordingly with further reduction, conservation efforts and additional water projects.

39. What happens when this water runs out?
With the drastic reduction in consumption that will be seen once taps are turned off and collection points are activated, the last reserves are expected to stretch far enough to see us through to the rainy season. Additional water from new resources will help to extend water resources but for the immediate future, only to a small extent.


A Question you asked @plonkster :

29. The city claims about 60% of people aren't saving water. How does it calculate this? And what steps are being taken to stop people using excessive water?
This is based on the billing information of account holders. It looks at what should be paid if one is within the limits, and then identifies the account holders who are over that and who have not applied for quota increases.

Seems to me it can be quite and accurate number?


As solid as the above information sounds, I do not trust that the majority of users are going to abide over a period of time.

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19 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

identifies the account holders who are over that and who have not applied for quota increases.

So it's very binary. Either you are a water warrior under 10.5kl, or you don't care at all and you're going to hell.

That was the point I was making. We were told that 60% don't care, there was no distinction between those who don't care, and those who do but were unsuccessful in reaching the lower levels.

I also think that meter readings are done relatively infrequently compared to how often they changed the required level of savings. If you change both once a month, and the meter-reading date doesn't coincide with the day, averages completely mess you up.

I also found the communication about how the levels are determined and policed to be incredibly poor. For a long time I had no idea how they planned on identifying bad households. The news said outright the cap was 20kl. It appeared that you were left to self-police under that level. So my 5-person household aimed for 435l/day (87l pppd) and we not only managed it, we did slightly better than that.

Then came some hints that they wanted 350l per household, but again, these devices were to be installed at water wasters. The main mantra was still 87l pppd, or 435l for me.

By December, we had to apply if there was more than 4 in the household. Instead of doing that, we reduced to under 350l pd instead. Then we went away for a few weeks, came back in January, and it wasn't even a month before it got dropped to 200l pd.

My meter was read on the 11th of January. We averaged 8kl... which sounds horrible, but remember that we have almost the whole of December (we were here 24 days of that month) in there at the previous 350l level. Of course this is too much to qualify for the coveted dark-green dot (6kl).

My next meter reading will likely be 7kl. Absolutely exceptional by the previous 350 level... but I'm still the bad guy because it is above 6.

I have a feeling they literally do an SQL query and plug in 6000 liters. In other words... I'm one of those people going to hell even though I've worked my arse off...

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I really feel for you guys. About 2 years ago it was drought here and our borehole was almost dry. We only managed to get a few hundred litres a day out of it. Had to drive to neighbours with stronger borehole and fill up  the firefighter tank 650l at a time to fill our water tanks. Difficult. Hopefully winter brings good rains.

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Use this info, or not, make up your own mind, do your own fact checks. 


So, I got tired of all the bla bla bla going on in the news, social media, Zille did this wrong, Mmuzi did that wrong, and each and everyone forgetting to think about the fact that since 1990, it was said Cape Town will be without water.

Add to our plight, one by one, more and more towns and areas pop up that has had water problems for much longer. 

What is the common denominator? National Government was supposed to sort ALL the water matters in the ENTIRE SA. The same crowd that is in charge of Eskom, SA Railways, SABC ... 

Another point to ponder, with the drama the angry people of Cape Town are dishing out back to the DA, we are handing the City to the ANC on a platter. As a matter of fact, a council member got a SMS from a ANC person, saying De Lille will be their Premier in 2019. The person who told me, sat next to the person who got the SMS.


Anycase, where does it all come from?

I sent this email to our local DA Councillor:

Dear Counselor,

Respect for all the DA’s efforts. DA could not have sorted this alone.

There is one question that no-one is even whispering about that I can see.

1)    I quote: “If we all use less than 50 liters a day for 150 days, we will not reach DayZero and will have water for another 3 months!” = +-450mil litres per day.
2)    It is reported that all the augmentation schemes current and coming on-line, in total, will produce +- maybe 150mil litres per day, whilst the aquafers hold.
3)    450 – 150 = 300million litres per day.
So if I got the above right, broadly speaking, if the rains are not enough to augment the augmentation schemes, then the City will have +- maybe 300million litres water short per day.

Yes, No, I am missing something?



She phone back a little while later. (if you want to ask her yourself, PM me for her details.)

The maths are right, 450 - 150 = 300 million liters PER DAY is what is required this coming rain season, or Cape Town closes down. The 150m liters, that is debatable.

Note: It is also reported, that the rains this season will probably be less than last year.

Goes further, my speculation that this is a game that was played by nefarious characters over time, turns out there could be a hint of truth in that.

The drama in and around De Lille is astounding, inside the council, that gets nowhere near the press. There was a signed off plan around the future expansion of the cities population growth. After approval, it was changed and then the altered version published on CoCT's web page. The part that was changed, allegedly by Lille, unbeknownst to most of the Councillors, is that all open space in and around white areas, are to be used for low cost housing flats. It came to our councilors attention only recently. 

The water. Since 2009 CoCT has been putting aside monies for new pipes anticipating the drought, for pipes cost a lot and takes even more time to get installed. Each and every year with the rains and dams full, the funds where used elsewhere. Guess who drove it?

The Waterfront desalination plant, after spending over R740 MILLION, that is close to a billion for a few million liters of water (!!!), was stopped very recently and will only continue if we need it later. Guess who stopped it? The only article about this, that I saw, was in the Tygerburger, given to them by our local Counselor.


I hope to get more concrete evidence in the form of documentation, for what has happened right under our and DA's noses the last few years, for all is published (and who reads all that?) under De Lille. Apparently it is devastating.

No wonder Mmusi has stepped closer, for this entire fiasco, De Lille, National Government, DA, ANC, EFF (all political parties) is immense.

Most of the really bad stuff is not hitting the papers either. A court will have to decipher what really happened, who did what, we can sort that our later, if there is a later.

The Bottom line: For CoCT, to buy time for a proper long term solutions, needs 300mil liters of water per day stored in our dams IF everyone uses 50l pppd continuously from now on, till the problem is dealt with permanently. From now till then, who knows how bad it can get.

What can I do?
Follow the guidelines for water usage, lower if we can. Report people who waste water.
Support the DA to ensure that they get the help they need, and not hand this City over to the ANC on a platter by fighting between ourselves, and hope for the best.

And if it does go south?
Cannot store enough water AND protect it on my property.
Cannot immigrate.
Cannot move anywhere in SA for millions of others will do the same, bringing immense pressure to the rest of the SA resources, with no jobs. All major cities are under strain.

I know the above post is extremely negative, can be seen as fear-mongering, inciting and all that, turns out all was for nothing, just read the 1st few lines in bold again. 


Ps. I did get a very good piece of advice from a Jhb person.
He said. "Forget tanks, buy lots of bullets for in the end, the guy who has the bullets, will always have water." :D

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8 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Cannot store enough water AND protect it on my property.

This movie clip has come to mind recently, with people making their own private water stashes. The response should be the same: So you've got three melons?

8 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Cannot immigrate.
Cannot move anywhere in SA for millions of others will do the same, bringing immense pressure to the rest of the SA resources, with no jobs. All major cities are under strain.

Which is why I'm preparing to put a border between us if it comes to that. I'm sort-of lucky that way. It will take less than 24 hours.

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On 2/3/2018 at 9:27 PM, plonkster said:

So you've got three melons?

The 450 mil liters - 150 000 = 300 mil was for if we all use 50l pppd with business also saving.

It is clear now that the augmentation schemes are not all operational yet, they are not going to be putting out 150mil liters per day.

Just on desalination: https://www.iol.co.za/weekend-argus/news/deputy-mayor-city-delayed-desalination-13084424 

Has anyone done the sums on where the 25l pppd will come from?
25l pppd is for human consumption = 4mil people x 25 = 100mil liters per day.
Augmentations schemes cannot produce that today, will they be able to?

What about Businesses, Malls, where they cannot desalinate? 
Transportation of all the water to businesses, malls, where they can pay, do we have enough tankers?
And then Zoo's, animal rescues, all those thousands of little places where people try and make a difference, having no money to buy water? 
Farming could be done and dusted, pun intended, if the rains stay away with no water from the dams.
And smaller towns relying on dams? Do they have water tankers?

The planning of it all is mind boggling. The deeper one digs down into it the bigger the problem gets.

And then to actually put it all into practice, on the ground.


The V&A desalination plant (two-million litres per day)
The Strandfontein plant (seven-million litres per day)
The Monwabisi plant (seven-million litres per day) 
= Total 16 million liters

After advice from the World Bank, the City shifted focus from desalination to optimising the use of aquifers in the short-term, as this is more cost effective and quicker to implement than temporary desalination plants.
The Cape Flats aquifer will deliver 80-million litres per day,
Table Mountain Group aquifer will deliver 40-million litres per day,
Atlantis aquifer will deliver 30-million litres per day
= Total 150 million liters


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22 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

The deeper one digs down into it the bigger the problem gets.

if the math is so simple, and it is; the only thing which protracts the present delusion of the masses is a combination of their inability to think and apply information readily available and failure of the 'authorities' to speak the truth. in effect i would include most 'authorities' as being unable to apply their minds to all but their own self-importance.

reminds me of a drawing above the black board of our english class way back in high school...


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Right, latest:

Day Zero, the day we may have to start queuing for water, is expected to move out to mid-May 2018 due to a decline in agricultural usage. But Capetonians must continue reducing consumption if we are to avoid Day Zero. There has not been any significant decline in urban usage. All Capetonians must therefore continue to use no more than 50 litres per person per day to help stretch our dwindling supplies. 

50 000 jobs losses anticipated in the farming sector, full time and seasonal workers.

And I got this in:


Dit is die ontsoutingsprojek by die Kaapstadhawe wat gestop is, nie die V&A Waterfront nie. By navrae is ek meegedeel dat die verslag nie reg is nie en dat die geld nie spandeer is nie. Ek wag nog vir terugvoering van die CFO en die Regsdept.

Die een by Kaapstadhawe sou 120 miljoen liter bygedra het.

Vandat Ian Neilson oorgeneem het, het die volgende gebeur: (Dit is projekte wat vinniger en goedkoper water kan gee.
1.    Nog boorgate by Atlantis.
2.    Daar word groter pype vanaf die V&A Waterfront se ontsouting aangelê sodat meer water ontsout kan word. Die ontsoutingsinfrastruktuur kan groter volumes hanteer.
3.    Met die bydra van Nasionale Regering van R20 miljoen, word daar nou geboor in die ontvangsgebied van die Theewaterskloof.
4.    Die Theewaterskloofdam gaan tydelik verklein word om die verdamping te verminder.  Daarna gaan begin word om water van ander damme wat redelik vol is, oor te pomp.

Op hierdie stadium lyk dit maar nog donker, maar ek voel meer positief dat as mense aanhou om water te spaar soos die afgelope week (DagZero nou 11 Mei 2018), sal daar genoeg tyd wees om meer projekte inplek te kry. Soos jy tereg sê, dan moet die ondergrondse water nie opdroog nie!

Daar is baie kleiner fonteine wat ook ontgun kan word. Ongelukkig is die koste om die water deur ‘n skoonmaakproses te sit, baie duur, maar as dit noodsaaklik word, moet dit gedoen word.  Dit kos ongeveer R500 000 om die infrastruktuur op te rig om 1 000 liter water skoon te maak. Dan is daar die bedryfskostes.


Sent this suggestion to City of Cape Town:

Hi Mario,

I supposed this idea has already been tabled, thought of, if not, here it is.

99% of the babble in the media is detracting from the core: We. Do. Not. Have. Water. Security. Anymore.

If that is the focus, the suggestions below should be easy to do. It will cost money. But if “sold” correctly to the majority of Cape Town, they will rally and say yes. 

Like: Do you want to stand in a ques every time we have a shortage of water, or pay a levy of R100 pm?

Yes, I am rather brash but in business, you cannot be nice to all the people. Someone must make the hard decisions.

1)    All CoCT’s water must come from desalination plants. We have the local skills, use it, Minister can be taken to court to sort the legalities out … after the event. 
2)    All dam and aquifer water to be used for smaller towns and farmers only, thereby securing their futures and a lot of jobs!
3)    All business that need water for production must use grey water that was cleaned from sewage, or own plants.

Desalination plant power:
1)    Allow users who can to install solar systems with free CoCT certification and connection to the grid IF spare power is given back to CoCT, to be used for the poor and the desalination plants.
2)    Re-task Koeberg to focus on desalination power – expanding their plant – ANC can get Me-dupe-U and Kusili up and running, go to court if we have to.

New bylaws:
1)    No new boreholes in CoCT boundaries.
2)    All new development must have 5-10kl water tanks per property, installed by a registered plumber to feed toilets.
3)    Existing homes have 2 years to get same tanks and connections.
4)    Tanks can rented, like refuse and recycle bins, from CoCT, or bought to save monthly billing.

Remove all and every critical infrastructure decisions and budgets, from all and every political parties grasp. It must be a separate legal entity that makes decisions on water, Eskom etc., run by engineers who specializes in the respective industries. No. Political. Interference. Ever. Again.

Good luck to all of us!

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5 hours ago, gabriel said:

... failure of the 'authorities' to speak the truth.

Lets say we are in charge and we tell CoCT, SA and the world, that on X day in April, the city will not have enough water to supply the citizens. Short by a few 100 million liters.

What do you think is going to happen? 

You cannot trust the masses with too much info. Having said that, the info is all there IF you have the tim, and make the effort, to sift thought the fake, half baked, distracting to find the gems of information. Even then, most people will look at it and ... ignore it.

From all that I have read so far, and asked, all the info is there OR at least, the parts that I am interested in, the core question, here in this thread. ;)

Takes a different kind of approach, 1/10000 being right, to get prepared for the worst, and when that happens, that one time, people will scream blue murder: The Government will help us. The Government must help us. Why did "they" allow it! Imbeciles. 

The Government is not the solution. The people are. Each individual must take responsibility, but we don't. We are "safe and sound". There is not problem. Today.

Seems to me that with Ian Neilson, civil engineer and practiced as a consulting engineer in the field of water engineering for 20 years, there is more hope. 

Especially if he: The optimist sees the glass as half full. The pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be.

Build them plants twice as big Neilson!

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Ok, what do we make if these two titbits?

Many desalination projects have started and been scrapped over the years. In 2005, GrahamTek built a 300,000 litre a day plant and offered it to the City free of charge. That was a R2 million donation and they would have installed and maintained it for free. A hydrological (!) engineer named Ian Neilson, who is now in charge of fixing the water problem (!), and who has been Cape City of Cape Town 's Chief of Finance and Executive Deputy Mayor for decades, has sat on this offer for 13 years. I spoke to one of the top guys at GrahamTek. And I asked how long it will take to install this system? He said "tomorrow". I said "huh?" He said that the system is in their factory in Somerset West, and they use it as a demo unit!!!!



And then this interview ... from a man that was 2nd in charge for all this time ... 


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I have said it before, and will say it again. The government don't want to help. There is nothing in it for them, directly through helping the masses (no matter with what). Even if the water shortage, and ultimately, no water hinders the economy, they don't care. They cannot line their wallets through this so they won't bother helping. 

Yes, the desalination plant is there, ready to use. But then it means people have water. And the government don't have control over them. Now they have the whole cape at their knees and the people will, literally, kill to survive. I still think this was planned all along. 


And the more I read the stuff being said here, in the news and in social media, the more I think: "Julle is in julle moere in"

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2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

You cannot trust the masses with too much info

without distracting from the h2o problem at hand, i have to mention that the masses have access to info [internet etc] - but turning it into 'intelligence' needs a mindset that is, well, driven by intelligence. what is the end result? strategic thinking and then actually acting on it. at present it seems to me, here from a hundred plus km away from the epicenter of day zero as if the 'actually acting on it' bit is not forthcoming.

now don't get me wrong, i am not a prophet of doom, but the age old adage holds true 'wie nie wil luister nie moet voel' - and that will include me

to those so inclined, have a look at deuteronomy 28, and we thought we had it coming...  :huh:

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My man Chesterton put it well, almost a century ago.

"THE men whom the people ought to choose to represent them are too busy to take the jobs. But the politician is waiting for it. He’s the pestilence of modern times. What we should try to do is make politics as local as possible. Keep the politicians near enough to kick them. The villagers who met under the village tree could also hang their politicians to the tree. It’s terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged today."

~G.K. Chesterton: Cleveland Press interview (March 1, 1921).

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20 minutes ago, gabriel said:

have a look at deuteronomy 28,

I'm a bit of a stickler for context when it comes to these things. Whenever it comes to ANE writings (ancient near east) an interesting thing happens: You find that a lot of "borrowing" happens, but in a way that is very important. Specifically, the curses in the above mentioned text has (according to some interwebz research at least) remarkable similarities with the Succession Treaty of Esarhaddon. What makes Deuronomy 28 interesting is that instead of this treaty being with a king, it is with Yahweh. That is a new way of doing things! It is a subversion of the established order, a revolution! These damns Jews not only came there and took the land... they ripped their entire culture from under them, ripped out the old gods, and inserted their own!

So inconsiderate of them :-P

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I know this is seriously off-topic... and it is unlikely to interest many people here... but it is incredibly interesting to see not only the similarities, but also the progression. You find similarities between the laws of the Assyrians and the Hittites, but these nations usually rely very heavily on Lex Talionis (an eye for an eye), and usually the punishment is disfigurement (cutting off something). The mosaic law is markedly humane in this respect. Flogging is limited. Slaves have recourse against their masters. Children cannot be punished for the sins of their parents. If a young man is a delinquent -- unlike other nations where his own father could sort it out, usually ending in his death -- under this law there is a hearing in front of the city elders where both parents have to be present. If you have time, I'm sure you'll enjoy it a lot. You should look at some of the work of Brian Godawa and Paul Copan on this topic.


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55 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

"Julle is in julle moere in"

Jip, I agree, reasons why:
1) The closer we get to Day Zero, people are going to start drawing more and more water, to store. This in turn will hasten the day.
2) The numbers thrown about just do not make sense.
3) If the rains do not come back and fill the dams ... we are "truly in iur moer!" for the more I read, the more I realise how precarious it all is.

But, as with Eskom, it could just be a wakeup call, with some casualties. We, the people, are using too much water, at a very low price per kl. (full stop)

Since very early in this thread, it has been my opinion that there are nefarious agenda going on here, planned and executed by very very clever strategists, taking the DA down, using the water. Why? Same as with Eskom, the first round was initially ignored, till it hit Jhb, the next year, and then the shiite starting flying. Same saga is repeating itself. And same as back then, there where smaller areas and tows affected, it just never got to the news. It is repeating.

Eskom is teetering on a knifes edge ... Dept of Water and Sanitation also. 

I also said ANC is going to come riding in on a white horse, Cyril said so in Davos. Will put a team together ... (facepalm) More tax monies wasted. 

Watch, there is a #WaterCrisisTruths coming.


21 minutes ago, gabriel said:

'wie nie wil luister nie moet voel'

I have some very unpopular thoughts around this water crisis. So unpopular, I will be hanged, and I am not even Pressi yet. 


3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

THE men whom the people ought to choose to represent them are too busy to take the jobs. ... 1921

Why why why do we not listen and learn for the older more experiences generations? 

Went to call on my Dad's for his prespective, I mean, he is a fit 79 year old. Gave him all the options, quite impressed with my research and ideas from PF, pumps and all that, how many tanks ...

He sits there listening. Then he says:
1) Can you verify these so-called facts being reported? (seeing he was a law professor)
2) Buy one tank now, no more than 2000l. If the rains return, it will be full and we can use that water in the house if the dams stay dry.
3) If the rains do not return, no matter how many tanks we have, they will stay empty, or not enough water. Or they become a white elephant in 4-6 months time.
4) For one cannot store enough water as an individual, if the rains stay away, in the city.
5) And the gem: If the rains return, dam levels rise again, there will be a lot of surplus tanks, at a bargain, then you buy, for water will be more expensive then.

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25 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It’s terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged today


if joe soap would dare attempting a fraction of the stuff they get away with every day - phew...

so i support david lipschitz in his mandamus and twitter operations, whilst he is at it he might as well try and send a tweet to trump, maybe donald has a bit of sympathy left for cape town

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1 minute ago, gabriel said:

i'm sure you and david will make a gruesome twosome :D

Jip. He sold me my 1st 2nd hand Cotek Inverter. And gave me my first set of cables.

We agreed on his plans to decentralizing the grid into suburbs, saving billions of Rands for SA, with a nice ROI for each home (took David a long time to do the sums and presentations), selling back to CoCT. But, as always, the opportunity was there, and like always, the majority could not be bothered. He eventually gave it up.

Now he has tackled the water issue, was banned on FB I hear, because of a couple of people complaining, FB took him down. Politically incorrect or some such nonsense. 

People want the truth, but when they get it, it offends their fragile perspective of the truth. They complain bitterly and spend a lot of time making that known instead of checking the facts.

Like with Christianity all over the world, East and West. Don't you dare say anything, or say there is only one religion as we are taught. If you dare offend just one or two, they take you to task. And be prepared to fight even Western governments if you promote your Christian beliefs. But if you promote another religion, then you can do as you please, when you please, say what you want. Even teach little kids another religion, as long as it is not Christianity. 

The more people, the more opinions, the more rights they demand. It results in less rights some can get, and the less tolerant people become of opposing opinions.

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