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LionKing

24X 2v 200AH vs 4X 12v 200AH Shoto Gel Battery?

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I'm setting up a solar system for my parents in Pakistan. The grid is quite unstable here with frequent blackouts, mostly 1 hour ones 3-4 times a day and once a week 5-6 hour one. Most solar companies/installers sell Narada/Shoto Sealed Gel batteries. I did some research and now i'm confused about which batteries to get.

1. Most users on western solar energy forums say Flooded Lead Acid batteries are best, however, I don't think my parents are upto task on maintaining batteries - since its quite technical. and there are obvious venting issues as well. Are sealed gel batteries really inferior to the FLA ones?

2. Solar installers in pakistan say that dry 2v cells are the best option, however, on forums people said that whats really important is cyclic life. Since we have frequent black-outs (cyclic usage), I'm guessing 2v cells will last about same as a 12v battery? Cost wise there is almost a Rs 100K difference, which is quite a bit, so if performance/life is going to be similar I might as well go for the 12v option. Maybe in another 2-3 years there would be cheaper/better lithium batteries.

Shoto 2v cell: http://www.shuangdeng.com.cn/userfiles/4cd5d807dc514b838f58401c8f3a3e9f/files/6-FMX%20series(regular).pdf

Narada 12v battery: http://en.naradapower.com/upload/at/file/20160616/1466059790653093F207.pdf
(12v battery is available in Shoto as well)

 

Btw, I'd be hooking up these batteries to a 10KW inverter. Actualy load would be around 700Watts, with occassional Inverter AC (2000W) and Pressure Pump for faucets (intermittent load).

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4 hours ago, LionKing said:

Are sealed gel batteries really inferior to the FLA ones?

It depends. Good sealed batteries have a life in excess of 1000 cycles. Cheap flooded cells might last only half that. I think the reason why we on this forum gravitate towards flooded, is because in our market you can get good flooded batteries (Trojan mostly) that can do between 1200 and 1600 cycles at very competitive prices.

4 hours ago, LionKing said:

I don't think my parents are upto task on maintaining batteries

You could use a watering kit to keep them full. It costs a bit of money but it makes it significantly easier.

4 hours ago, LionKing said:

whats really important is cyclic life

Not even that. What you care about is how much money you pay per stored kwh. You want that to be as low as possible. That is the starting point. A low cycle life might be acceptable if the battery is cheap enough. Other considerations might be 1) maintenance, 2) flooded cells are often messy, 3) upfront cost.

If cycle life was the only consideration, everyone would by LFP and be done with it :-) But not everyone can afford LFP due to point 3 above.

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8 hours ago, plonkster said:

It depends. Good sealed batteries have a life in excess of 1000 cycles. Cheap flooded cells might last only half that. I think the reason why we on this forum gravitate towards flooded, is because in our market you can get good flooded batteries (Trojan mostly) that can do between 1200 and 1600 cycles at very competitive prices.

You could use a watering kit to keep them full. It costs a bit of money but it makes it significantly easier.

I think it'll be too much of a hassle for my parents, also the battery location doesn't have venting so another issue to figure out.

Are Shoto/Narada considered good batteries? I've been doing some research and it looks like the models we have here are generic UPS batteries, NOT the ones designed for cyclic usage/extreme environments. One importer said he could get me those  (Shoto LLC and GFMJ) but it'll be about a 3 month wait :O

 

8 hours ago, plonkster said:

Not even that. What you care about is how much money you pay per stored kwh. You want that to be as low as possible. That is the starting point. A low cycle life might be acceptable if the battery is cheap enough. Other considerations might be 1) maintenance, 2) flooded cells are often messy, 3) upfront cost.

If cycle life was the only consideration, everyone would by LFP and be done with it :-) But not everyone can afford LFP due to point 3 above.

How much longer do cells typically last under same conditions (i.e. same manufacturer/model, blackout schedule, loads etc)? The sellers here are saying 30-50%, although I feel they are guestimating.

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1 minute ago, Chris Hobson said:

Depending on cost I would look at Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries.

What are decent brands/models?  I actually looked at DIY Powerwalls on youtube - the ones using 18650 cells, its something I can do, however, I don't have the time currently.

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10 minutes ago, LionKing said:

What are decent brands/models?  I actually looked at DIY Powerwalls on youtube - the ones using 18650 cells, its something I can do, however, I don't have the time currently.

BYD, Pylontech and Victron. Here in South Africa Freedom Won and Blue Nova. In Asia you have more brands than you can shake your fist at. It will take some research though to identify which manufacturer is going to suit you.

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1 hour ago, Chris Hobson said:

BYD, Pylontech and Victron

Not sure what's available in Pakistan, but Victron has a manufacturing presence in India (a stone's throw from you? If you can throw hard that is!), although their batteries are from China (Winston). So that might be something to look at.

Sony-Murata also makes a good battery.

10 hours ago, LionKing said:

Are Shoto/Narada considered good batteries?

Narada is used a lot in our Telecoms industry in South Africa, but mostly for backup purposes, not for cyclical use. They aren't bad batteries... just not the best for the application. I recall seeing a spec sheet for the better models, and I seem to recall it had enviable cycle lifes, as much as 2500 cycles? That's a good battery if you can get it at a decent price. But again, you'd really have to compare it with a good LFP battery, such as the Pylontech or the BYD.

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5 hours ago, plonkster said:

Narada is used a lot in our Telecoms industry in South Africa, but mostly for backup purposes, not for cyclical use. They aren't bad batteries... just not the best for the application. I recall seeing a spec sheet for the better models, and I seem to recall it had enviable cycle lifes, as much as 2500 cycles? That's a good battery if you can get it at a decent price. But again, you'd really have to compare it with a good LFP battery, such as the Pylontech or the BYD.

Shoto official sales person recommended LLC (Lead Carbon) battery that she claims has 3800 cycles @ 60% DOD: http://www.shuangdeng.com.cn/view-104-247.html

Attached image is what she emailed me, interestingly, Cycle info is Not available on their site for any of their batteries. Still 3800 cycles is a huge number and although skeptical, I'm leaning towards these cells. I'll be keeping these in the basement where ambient temp is around 29C. What do you guys think?

 

llc.JPG

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