PV panel Grading?

[Energy-Jason]

22 hours ago, PaulF007 said:

First let me be clear I do this for the benefit of any newcomer that are looking to go into solar energy and might be reading through all of this.

Second this is derived through pure maths and if you disagree please show calculations (Frankly I don't care about your opinion unless it is backed y figures)

So: 

Scenario you want to do a solar installation that should be paid off in 5 years and you are not using your own money , bank borrowed you the cash. Your Current Eskom bill is R 3000 per month and thus have R 3000 available to spend on a System. Bank Interest Rate will be 10.5% 

So the bank will borrow you R 235 406.74

FV = R 235 406.74 , PMT = R 3000.00 , I = 10.50% , N = 60 , END Mode 

So with a odd R 240 000 you would like to generate the following 

Lets assume Fixed Eskom Charge of R1200 and Usage fee of R 2.50

So from this we can derive the following:

(Bill - Fixed Charge) / Usage fee = Units per month

(3000-1200)/2.50 = 720 units , 720 units /30 days = 24 units per day 

Here lies your problem to generate 1kwh per hour you are going to need a lot more money to generate that amount of power to from Solar and batts (I know there is a Solar Calculator floating out there that will show what is needed to produce that amount of power please feel free to chip in or show us what R 240 000 can buy you?

So you will need to reduce your consumption so that you can "fit in" with your design after. NOW since you have reduced your  consumption you will need to revisit your calculations again as your monthly bill will be a lot lower that what you are currently paying...

In all the calculations that I have made there is no way that you can pay off your solar system in such a short time if you are purely working on consumption. Unless you have a ridiculous high fixed monthly charge but then your usage will already be very low. IF your fixed charge were to be R 2400 you would be using about 8kwh per day.....

If you have made it all the way here and is wondering "nou wat nou" the rule of thumb for solar is :

• Invest in a proper energy monitor that can do proper logging for you over a term of about 2 months 
• Start to reduce your consumption to as low as what you are willing to live with (CONSULT WITH THE MISSES ON A REGULAR BASIS)
• See your monthly Eskom bill going down,
• If you still have a wife after this exercise she should be Solar compatible and you can start to setup you solar design (Here is some terrific guys here that can assist with the design once you have done the homework)
• Be prepared to still use a little bit of Eskom at night as this will bring down your Capital cost down significantly.

 

I have just realised that this whole post has been derailed again but that seems to be the trend any way .... I will see n 20 years time if my panels is still going and then I will give feedback accordingly ...

 (Frankly I don't care about your opinion unless it is backed y figures)

Hi PaulF007. Let's respect all our fellow members.

[Energy-Jason]

 (Frankly I don't care about your opinion unless it is backed y figures)

Hi  @PaulF007. Let's respect all our fellow members.

Sincerely 

Jay

[ebrsa]

@TinkerBoy I for one am glad that you put your statistics on this discussion. Sure there were a number of differences of opinions but that is how one arrives at the truth or worst case scenario, the best available conclusion. I am finding it very interesting and without members giving their views, we will have little to discuss. So I would say that you did members a favour by causing a lively discussion, however unintended. With a bit of luck this could perhaps even culminate in a useful spreadsheet as @The Terrible Triplett suggested.

[Guest]

@Energy Must admit I got as frustrated as Paul re. the numbers that drove the debate. We both felt that stating numbers that cannot be substantiated can severely mislead future readers if they see numbers, for as Paul said, humans tend to see only those "facts" which justifies their own view. We are wiser than that here. So sometimes one must shout to get attention. So I don't think he overstepped his bounds.

It pushed us all harder to think that resulted, I like to believe, in that we all are now all on par to add some real life experiences to this age old debate and get down to the actual cost of solar, in SA, as a collective.

I see the Power Forum Solar Calculator, like in "Welcome Newbie. We are here to help. Looked at the PFSS? How can we help?" 

 

My suggestion is we start with the sheet @PaulF007 started a while ago. Paul can you maybe check it again and the post in on the new thread?

Then the next person takes that, adds more caveats that they have learned and so we build the calc sheet to a comprehensive one, SA standards, taking into account all the little factors like for example Victron will have a longer ROI than Axpert, so equipment costs should be on a separate sheet, totaling to one cost. Electricity costs are also a variable etc.

Or one person keeps it updated, we just add our experiences here and start a vigorous debate to get to the real numbers:

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

Ttt are you not the one who said that we should not belittle or offend other members in public. You said rather send a pm. Now its ok to do that?

I indeed did. Good point, no it is not ok.

All should be more aware. PM's are good for resolving matters. My bad for missing it here.

 

We all COULD go and cleanup the thread ... leaving all the salient matters in place, i.e. not deleting posts, just comments type in frustration?

 

[___]

You guys are way too sensitive. I saw nothing in that thread that would preclude a future sharing of beers...

(Then again, maybe I've been hardened by too many news24 comment wars... )

[viper_za]

17 minutes ago, plonkster said:

You guys are way too sensitive. I saw nothing in that thread that would preclude a future sharing of beers...

(Then again, maybe I've been hardened by too many news24 comment wars... )

Agreed especially the comment wars 

[Energy-Jason]

Hehe. A Quick story. Totally off topic. When I was very young - say about 5-6 years old. We used to spend holidays in my grannies house.

At 7pm there was a soap opera called " The bold and the beautiful" - From what I can remember there was this good looking chap with black hair- "Ridge or Rick"

And then a blonde women and a brunette that used to kind of ploy against each other to get to Rick. Sometimes this forum reminds me of that. Nothing like a bit of debate and drama. But lets draw a line in the sand and not get too personal. Save that for PM as it floods the topic and we go off topic.

Hope you enjoyed my story :>

PS: Also at my local flying club the guys get stuck into each other over airplanes and best practices. They squabble. But at the end of that day they deep down respect each other and are still able to have a beer together. Nothing like a hot debate! But you guys know what I mean.

Sincerely

Jason

[Energy-Jason]

Haha Here it is. There is the main chap in the middle and the two women either side,

hehe

[___]

5 hours ago, ebrsa said:

ROI which is not the same as the amortization period

Indeed. I realised that the other day, with real estate.We bought this place, the math showed break-even (it pays its bond and costs) within 5 years. We're now 8 years in and it ALMOST pays its costs (due to the whole recession of 2008, 2009, 2010, etc). So if I look at how long it is going to take to also pay back all the extra money I had to sink into it to cover the shortfall... it is more like a 15 year thing.

And people wonder why they are having so much trouble finding pet-friendly accommodation (well, it's a hot topic where I live). Simply, because land lords can set the rules at the moment. Lots of people realised it is no longer a good deal.

It also means... watch out for a STEEP rise in rental rates. It's already happening where I live.

:-)

[PaulF007]

4 hours ago, Energy said:

 (Frankly I don't care about your opinion unless it is backed y figures)

Hi  @PaulF007. Let's respect all our fellow members.

Sincerely 

Jay

@Energy Hi Jay , comments was with no ill intent towards members. But no problem respect for sure.  

Sincerely 

P

[Energy-Jason]

Thanks P007

Jay

[PaulF007]

[Daniel128]

Hi there everyone

I also looked at hose JA SOLAR panels and was wondering how good they are for the price you pay.

I can get 2 260wp for 1900 incl vat each to replace X3 TENESOL 95wp panels that went dead and no longer works.

What do you guys think or must I go look at something else?

Im not going to need more than 4 of thease panels since its a small 2kva system for a flat I have in the back of my house.

Thanks

[Guest]

@Daniel128 I have Tenesols too, Yingli Panels is what I would go for if I need more.

And I would take a serious look at the Shop, support Energy for giving us this forum, and his prices are quite acceptable: