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  1. This is a huge debate on this forum and everyone will have their own view on the matter. For me, it makes more sense to have enough PV to power everything including the geyser. Yes an EV tube geyser is more efficient, but spending that much on a geyser that can only heat water is a waste of funds, whereas using that R30k odd to add more panels is money better spent. My reasoning is that the additional power produced can be used for anything you choose. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so feel free to disagree, feel free to give me charts on how much better a solar geyser can perform on a cloudy day. It’s all a matter of what works best for you. Personally I go for more panels to produce more power that I can use wherever I need it. Someone else can comment on the inverter/battery question….
    4 points
  2. When that happens I'll add another battery, a couple of panels and wire in my generator. Bye bye Eskom ...
    4 points
  3. Raj35

    DIY Lifepo4 16s 272amp

    After 39 cycles battery is performing very well, get close to 14kwh from it cut off voltage 49.5v no stress on them.
    4 points
  4. Interesting and thorough discussion above. My 2c is that, for my usage, no single solution is best. The best solution varies according to: 1. the season; 2. whether or not we have guests; 3. whether there is a lot of loadshedding; 4. whether there is a gas shortage; 5. the gas price, which goes up and down; and every possible combination of the above. I have a plain jane 200L electric geyser which I heat up with whatever excess solar PV power I have. This varies from more than enough in summer to nowhere near enough in winter. In winter we sometimes go for a week or more with it getting no power at all. Then I have a Paloma gas water heater which I can feed from the 200L electric or direct from the cold water. This is settable with some simple valves. In summer we use no gas since the water in the electric is hot. Mid seasons we use some gas to boost the water temperature from whatever the electric could muster to 50C. This varies from nothing to maybe 20C boost. Mid winter we use more gas since the water coming in from the electric is much colder. Perhaps as low as 5C. For my scenario I worked out that I would be ahead on running costs if a 19kg gas bottle lasted more than 5 weeks. The worst to date I have had is 8 weeks out of a bottle and that was mid winter last year. Note, this does not include any ammortisation of the cost of the gas geyser, certificate or plumbing that had to be done to set up this system, but for me having hot water is a lifestyle choice. Having the system "pay for itself" is not a primary driver. My car has never paid for itself, nor my swimming pool. Having a heat pump instead of a plain electric geyser is something I've considered, but I'm currently of the opinion that spending the R15k or whatever on extra PV generation capacity would serve me better than improving my water heating efficiency. Something to keep in mind is that a gas geyser produces hot water as you use it, so there is very little wasted heating capacity. An electric geyser costs you energy to keep the hot water at a particular temperature even if you use none. Cape Town day zero a few years ago changed all of our habits. We don't shower every day anymore - perhaps only every third day or when we have been out running.
    3 points
  5. If you open your DB, you will see that there are a minimum of 2 neutral bars, one neutral fed from the grid via the grid earth leakage, the other neutral via the essential earth leakage. On top of the breakers, will should have a copper busbar that's split with a live from the grid and a live from the inverter. Each of these live wires will have their own corresponding neutral which cannot be linked.
    3 points
  6. If you install it above the DB board, there is a risk of drilling into live cables trying to install the inverter as you normally have many conduit pipes with live wires running from the DB board into the roof area.
    3 points
  7. Hi Friendly, I went exactly the same route as you are mentioning. I splashed a bit and rather got the 8kw Deye inverter, but could only afford 12 380W panels and one 5.1kw battery. We swopped my Geyser's element with a 3kw element and at this stage when the sun is shining properly the battery and PV carries the geyser. I only run my geyser element from 10:00 to 15:00 but most days the Geyser is at 65 degrees by 12:00 this is when my pool pump comes on and run until 15:00. We also swapped our Gas/Electric oven for a full gass one. My savings so far is around R1500 a month. Hopefully I can buy another 8 to 10 panels and another battery before winter to run the geyser a bit longer.
    2 points
  8. This is where the chassis design is at atm, although some (small) changes may occur. 3x very different designs were considered before going ahead, this one ticks all the boxes, please let me know views or opinions. (New) EV cells are used, with all their inherent performance and environment design features. There is a 10,000 cycle design in the works, details to be released, advanced Lithium Ion tech being brought to market for the benefit of all. It may be a 27 year projection (1 cycle per day) chemistry calendar aging does play a part, please keep it in mind but exciting all the same.
    2 points
  9. My setup has solar and batteries, so I do a full charge / discharge every 24 hours. But for you the reason would be that you shouldnt leave LFP batteries at full charge for extended periods. Maybe someone else with pure UPS experience can chime in, but I would say enable the timer and grid charge, then set all the time slots to 80%. Or maybe do your bit to help Eksom by dropping to 50% during the evening peak and recharge slowly. But you already have the inverter and batteries ... those are the expensive bits. Why not add a few panels and start earning a return?
    2 points
  10. So I've been busy on a 48v 16s 200ah (10kWh) battery for a while, cost is around R25K. this very same article mentioned above is why I'm pushing up the release timeframe. The BMS key features are a screen, canbus communication、rs485 communication (master slave comms)、cell balancing、Individual cell over voltage protection、Over/under voltage protection、temperature protection, over charge/discharge protection, over current protection, Short circuit protection etc. in addition the BMS can support up to 16 units in parallel. Li Ion cell options are 4000 cycle, Cell Charge is 1C/ Discharge is 3C, although specs will state 0.5C on both. The key features are affordability and universal pylontech compatibility, Support and warranty will be local. atm the eta is around 7-10days from order. Please let me know if this is of interest to anybody.
    2 points
  11. Morne I agree. They seem super willing to help. I have found the readings are not that accurate. Just to make sure you are getting the correct capacity, use the manual settings. Cutoff at 44 Volts ( some say you can go down to 42 ) and charge up to 53.6. Compare how many kWh you are using and charging. I have found the manual settings give me an extra 20% at 44 Volts. Testing again this eve to see what happens.
    2 points
  12. Spoke to Hubble this morning and they requested i drop all three battery's off. Waiting on feed back as they are going to test it later. Must say they are very helpful !
    2 points
  13. Battery voltage depends on the chemistry. LFP specifically refers to LiFePO₄, so it isn't LFP at all.
    2 points
  14. Here is my As built with legal certification
    2 points
  15. Some amount of products it is easy you just take it back. That is not how it works with a lot products. You warranty is with the manufacturer. I've many times returned hard-drives to the manufacturer. Returned angle grinder directly to the manufacturer. Printers, laptops, the list goes on. Even cars are provided by the manufacturer. So maybe the "simple few" actually have experience with this sort of thing. I've actually worked in a family business before and needed to field warranty claims for many retail products. Also CPA, etc. is really meaningless. You think it protects you, but in reality the CPA backlog is in the years. They only go after big fish and cut and dry easy cases. I've also gone the small claims court route when I was still a student, it was many hours of effort over months. Then the store refuse to pay even with a judgement. Then back to court to get cost order. Then to police to get property attached (and police don't really actually want to do it, they are lazy so you best know where they need to go). Overall the effort is HUGE and every step costs money. So no CPA and SA laws really don't protect you. In theory they do, in practice the effort is so high that it 99.9% of people (wisely) walk away and learn from it.
    2 points
  16. Go to Solar inverter wharehouse. Based in Meadowdale. https://www.inverter-warehouse.co.za/ Have a look online what they have in stock,drive there and leave with the goods on hand.(just dont be in a hurry ,kinda slow service)
    2 points
  17. HennieB84

    Sunsynk - CT Clamp

    Issue has been sorted, there was a relay on the essential DB that was the problem. CT coil has to point towards the DB and inverter. On the 5kw, ins 3 and 4 are used for the coil. System is running well.
    2 points
  18. Don

    RIOT Cloudlink

    I installed a new system in December 2021 with 2 x 5000 Pylontech batteries. Afterwards I noticed everyone making use of Hubble. Lately, I have seen a few negative comments of cells failing and batteries being exchange at a high rate, not to mention the cycle counter running in turbo mode. I know my system is still new, but I must say the values I get from those batteries looks like a mirror image.
    2 points
  19. JoeSlow

    RIOT Cloudlink

    This device adds almost zero value to the whole solar system. If I knew about the Sunsynk Logger being launched I would not have bothered with this 3D printed POS. I guess the only good thing about it is the remote firmware upgrades for the AM-2 batteries that I have incase issues occur. But at a cost of over R2k? Wires supplied are short as sh!t too. @HubbleLithium you guys really need to get your devs going with this thing or it's gonna be a magnetic paperweight for many.
    2 points
  20. Also curious to know what are the make of these two batteries --( 10.2kwh LiFePO4 Power Pack(2 batteries) there have been lots of complains about batteries with bad cells.
    2 points
  21. Nitrious

    455w or 540w panels?

    Nexuss has a point, 14x 540w will cover you better in winter and cloudy days. I'm actually wondering if 2x 5kw inverters dont make better sense than 1x 8kw inverter you get more capacity, more mppt's, price point is similar, but thats a whole other conversation
    2 points
  22. zsde

    455w or 540w panels?

    Some practical feedback from my similar solar panel setup. The theoretical values you will never achieve. Your fixed azimuth and tilt of your installation will also have a big influence on the actual values achieved. My system consists of 12 X JA 535W panels in 2 X 6 strings. The 535W and 540W panels are near identical in VOC and Amps. My roof is a 30deg pitch and my house faces around 20deg North East. Thus my maximum solar radiation occurs before the sun is at it's highest point. My two strings on average give me between 265 -280V each on a clear sunny day. I have never ever had more than 4,8kW from the panels when using the 5kW limit of my Growatt 5000ES whilst the batteries are charging. So either the MPPT is limiting this or the fixed solar installation is just what it is. No more to be expected. I use the free version of the Solcast forecasting tool and that in general is pretty accurate in terms of what I actually get out of the system and what they calculate it would/should be. My single Hubble AM2 is normally full by 08:30 -09:00 depending on solar radiation. The battery on average is between 30-40% SOC before recharge starts. My household has never been a power hog. My monthly usage before I installed the system last year was 180-250kWh. Now I run mostly off Grid just with the solar and tend to not be so stingy anymore. The system was installed as an off grid and I have a change over at my DB board to select either Solar or Grid. The only thing I am considering is another Battery. But the finances for that are another story. This is the summary for the time period since I got Solar Assistant. Also a snip of the Solcast tool forecast based on my system info. The forecast is limited to 3 days for the free version. Edit: The reason my normal usage is on the low side is that I have had a gas stove for a long time already and I also have a flat panel solar geyser conversion. Yes I do use my solar panels now in the mornings on the geyser element too.
    1 point
  23. Newb

    Export to CT Issues

    This is my current setup
    1 point
  24. system32

    Battery life

    Use a cell phone video/camera app to time-lapse the BMS-LED.
    1 point
  25. No sure what issues you've had, but so far very happy with the SunSynk support I've received both locally and from the UK office.
    1 point
  26. Not an explanation, but a guess / speculation: this seems like a missed target to me. The inverters (as in the DC-AC converters) are presumably running, ready to take over in an instant if the grid falls away. So the inverter is pushing against the grid, which is connected to the load, and it's presumably aiming for zero power output. But it's missed that zero target a little, pulling a little from the battery. That's why the load is 1744 while only 1676 comes in from the grid. The difference is 68 W, out of 1744, 4%. I'll assume that the 1W from solar is a measurement error. The battery sees a load of 182 W, so 182 - 68 = 114 W of that is losses. Most of that is idle power, but a tiny bit is I²R losses on the 68 W transfer from battery to load. Call it 4 W at a wild guess, then you have 110 W from each inverter as idle load/loss, or 55 W per inverter. Granted, that's still 25% more than you expect. It's likely that the reported 4 significant digits of power isn't as accurate as that implies. Also, loads are fluctuating all the time. I wonder if they calculate the power factor accurately too. I know that the Axperts actually do an RMS power calculation. If I'm right, then at least the mystery has been reduced from 68 W to 20 W. I wonder if they somehow deliberately aim to "miss the zero target". And/or whether improved firmware could improve on this.
    1 point
  27. I have two Growatt inverters and they do exactly the same, they continually pull +_ 90w each from the battery. ( no load loss )
    1 point
  28. If I was the national dirstibutor I would prefer would-be resellers to call me rather than send an email ...
    1 point
  29. Give me your serial number at the side of the inverter and I'll do the upgrade for you
    1 point
  30. Zuma and Putin had that all sorted, down to uranium supply from Oakbay-owned Shiva. Guptagate brought that to a standstill. And nothing has happened since - sadly our politicians seem to have little motivation if not for their own pockets. Did someone say Karpowership? https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-12-02-karpowerships-r3-3bn-per-year-freebie/ Case in point ...
    1 point
  31. Been doing a bit of reading and it also lead me to Solar Assistant and looking at it, it's exactly what I want and about the cost effective and simplest way to get it, so ordered the kit and should arrive Tuesday, I can gather up some data while I wast for the panels to arrive in 3 weeks.
    1 point
  32. Don

    Newbie Advice or guidance

    Yes, you have a very high base load of 1.5kW - 2kW while everyone is asleep. That is a lot of power. Are you running aircons off the inverter as well?
    1 point
  33. TimCam

    Hubble Am2 issues

    This is quite normal, to charge to 100%, then drop back to 99%. Sometimes it will draw a few Watts, and other times it will give a few Watts, this is the battery BMS and inverter communicating and changing battery states between Float, Absorption, and Equalization.
    1 point
  34. Iiceman

    RIOT Cloudlink

    +1..was promised months ago that they will fix the integration between the 5kw sunsynk and the riot, and haven't done so. Actually they have removed features that were informative, like battery cycle count; individual battery SOH and voltages, etc.. Really beginning to loose trust in Hubble as a brand, after reading all the negative comments about them on this forum... @HubbleLithium, when can we expect some fixes?
    1 point
  35. It is a legal requirement that you may not connect the inverter output neutral to the grid neutral.
    1 point
  36. Green Power

    Saving Wasted Energy

    Apart from once or twice, every time we had a 5 or 10 hour power cut, the power seemed to come back on miraculously just when the inverter was beeping low battery. I do agree with spreading loads and I do already do that myself with the car, pool filter, electric heaters and watering system. These are usually scheduled/matched to the available PV so we have our demand and supply fairly well in sync compared to most people. We also recently bought a gas kettle. It reminds me of going camping. If I lived alone, this would be very easy. The battery would mostly only be only used in the evening to run low power items. But there are four of us and I don't think people want to be told what hours of the day they can use the hair dryer.
    1 point
  37. Hi, I have just installed a Goodwe 5048D-ES inverter along with 2*Pylontech US3000 batteries. I have 2 PV Strings a. 4*415Watt Canadian Solar & b. 4*455Watt JA Solar. I am very interested in the Software by CEF, and need help installing Ver 3.4 Thanking you Blackjack
    1 point
  38. Whats wrong with 12x450W? (12x450W = 5400W)
    1 point
  39. According to the Deye datasheet and label on the inverter, the max PV input current is 22A per MPPT but as per my original post, it seems as if my inverter is clipping at 20A. I'm not sure if anybody else with a 8kW Deye has seen currents higher than this??
    1 point
  40. You really want the Display and menu buttons at eye-level. Getting on a ladder or steps to check or change things will soon get tiresome. For the trunking, you want the DC and AC separate, or at least have trunking with a divider. Depending on your planned future requirements, like more batteries, etc, the size of trunking will vary anywhere from 50mm, 80mm, 100mm. The Sunsynk 8.8K is a large 650x420x240 mm beast which weighs a lot, and has no mounting frame like the Sunsynk 5.5K, but is bolted directly to the wall with 4x rawl bolts. So mounting high up requires strong hands. The Hubble AM-2 battery is also heavy at +40 KG, and requires 4x rawl bolts too. The 3x fans on the Sunsynk 8.8K do play beautiful melodies throughout the day, and sound fascinating with different RPM's and timings. It really is something special to hear.
    1 point
  41. Just confirmed with Power Forum Store. They are the owners of the Hubble warranty. The new owner of the batteries need to contact Power Forum Store to be eligible for the warranty upon second-hand purchase.
    1 point
  42. You have no PV panels, right? To enable grid charge try this ... Whatever you setup in Work Mode 1 wont have any effect unless you tick Use Timer.
    1 point
  43. My 5kW Sunsynks have each 45W self-consumption
    1 point
  44. If you want to correct people, that's great, but rather quote the correct facts when you do so. You cannot correct someone by quoting irrelevant documents, it just causes more confusion.
    1 point
  45. Take note of this thread .. .this is a discussion about a few silly plug sockets ... add a string of panels ... an inverter and a couple kwh of batteries ... suddenly the risk becomes a reality. I deal with insurance assessors on occasion ... for small ... medium and large claims for electrical damage due to surges ... lightning and fires ... you want to make sure you have all your ducks in a row.
    1 point
  46. As far as I understand the legislation, all joints have to be enclosed in a firmly attached junction box. And you cannot use non-standard colours, unless clearly marked. @isetech is an electrician, so maybe he can confirm for sure.
    1 point
  47. If you can squeeze a bit more you won't be sorry if you go the 8kV Sunsynk route. I have been running for a year now with 2 Hubble 5.5 batteries. The geyser is heated by an auxiliary output as soon as the batteries are 100%. My wife doesn't have to worry about tripping the unit because it can handle four loads of under 2000W. Just a thought.
    1 point
  48. Well EV's are on their way, so what works today may well not work once the move away from ICE vehicles begins, I've begun planning for around 24x 450w total panels for that occurrence. Lets not forget water, another rapidly increasing cost, so borehole is on the way, yet another energy requirement to be added, along with air to water for the kitchen. Result would be never paying for water, lights or fuel ever again. Worth it? definitely, but maybe I'm just crazy.
    1 point
  49. Why would you take the chance? But okay, you're right, I'm arguing the sensibility and you're arguing the legality... so here goes... That's from a draft copy of SANS-10142-1 that has the new DC bits added to it. It says you MUST have an overcurrent device in place. Does not have to be a fuse, can be a breaker, but it must be able to interrupt the full short circuit current of the the battery (which would be a very hefty breaker). The insurance company will smack you on the letter of the regulations. Put the damn fuse in What is also interesting here is how ground-faults are avoided. The cable between the battery and the protection device (fuse) must be kept as short as possible, and the positive and negative cabling up to the fuse must be kept separate. They are clearly trying to avoid fault conditions on the wrong side of the fuse. When you do this, you need a battery fuse only in the positive line, since ground faults are now unlikely (it would have to happen in the very short cable to the fuse on the positive side). Edit: Also note "NOTE 3", which already refers to the battery protective device, aka the BMS.
    1 point
  50. Calvin

    Youda's off-grid LAB

    That worked, thanks! pwrsys now performs as expected Thank you!
    1 point
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