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Thank you for the great forum, Safe Driving over the weekend. Sincerely Jason


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mmacleod last won the day on February 29

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  1. Not at all, 2 seperate elements (quite common overseas; seemingly incredibly rare here): 'Dual' elements on a single 'boss' (some small market availability here in various shapes/forms):
  2. Other than generally being considered more efficient for various other reasons (and thus more common overseas) In the case of solar two elements makes it easier and cleaner to have one element powered by solar and one by mains, with different temperature settings while still being appropriately sized. This is how most people who dump excess solar as heat seem to do it overseas.
  3. Somewhat related to this discussion, and also a long time coming: https://www.pcworld.com/article/3518831/how-intels-changing-the-future-of-power-supplies-with-its-atx12vo-spec.amp.html
  4. Does seem like the way to go, looks like two smaller geysers barely costs much more than a single large one, and its kind of neat in a way having the two mostly separated from each other. I'm convinced Now I just need to decide which of the dozens of potential options for feeding PV into the PV one is going to be the most sane.
  5. Yeah, I've seen both of these, neither of them is really as good as an actual unit thats just designed for two elements though. Also from both a safety and efficiency perspective I'd (personally) like some decent space between the two elements (wiring further apart and so on) I guess the other option and probably closest I can get to a proper two element geyser, is to go for two geysers that just connect to one another.
  6. hrm, okay, either way it doesn't really matter much if nobody sells them here. They're clearly superior (ease of modification for off grid purposes aside) so its crazy to think that price alone is enough to keep them completely out of the local market. An extra element/thermostat barely even costs that much...
  7. hrm, not sure about that, I've run into a lot of material over the years on various solar forums etc., suggesting that they seem to take separate wiring for each element "out of the box" (seems especially common in Australia/USA) - I've never read of any difficulties wiring the two elements to take separate power sources. e.g. This site as an example http://techluck.com/
  8. It seems to be quite common place in various other countries for "water heaters" to contain two elements (each with own thermostat) instead of a single element. (It also seems more common for them to be vertical which may be related...) e.g. as pictured here: I have been trying to find similar in a za context, and either I'm searching for the wrong keywords, or they just don't exist here. I was wondering if anyone knows. 1) Are there products that can be bought locally that can take two elements? 2) If so which? Or what do we call it here so that I can search for it? 3) Why is it not common here if its common in other countries? The best I could find so far was this forum thread, but as far as I can tell these are custom modifications and not actually supported by the product?
  9. Well sure in a completely fictitious example where spending double the money gets you exactly double the savings the ROI is exactly the same. Well not exactly, because it assumes the costs to acquire the capital are the same - which isn't guaranteed, but anyway... In reality however the things being talked about are not linear. A system that attempts to meet 100%+ of demand costs more than a system that is designed just to handle the low hanging fruit.
  10. 100% - its much cheaper and much faster in terms of ROI to take only a portion of the household that you need off grid, than to go full blown solar. However there tends to be some kind of allure that sucks people immediately into taking an all or nothing approach. This is why solar then has a reputation as being incredibly expensive.
  11. A copy of the 'system diagram', in case it somehow ends up being useful for anyone - not exactly my finest work but I was angry I even had to spend time on this at all so wasn't really going to spend too much time making it pretty.
  12. 6x320W (1920W) artsolar panels eSmart MPPT charge controller 1x pylontech US3000 lithium battery 1x 8 port PoE injector 1x victron orion 48/12 DC/DC convertor 1x victron orion 48/24 DC/DC convertor (And obviously assorted cabling/connectors/DC circuit breakers) Most my network equipment runs off the 48v PoE My desktop computer itself runs directly from the battery at 48v as well (I bought a 48V DC ATX PSU for it) My two computer monitors run off the 24v convertor I'm not actually even using the 12v convertor any more (at a point I had some network devices on it still) but I keep it around just in case This allows me to endure entire day power outages (happens several times a year) uninterrupted, as well as shorter load shedding periods when load shedding flares up. Which is important to me as a work from home programmer. So essentially all my computing related equipment is off grid but the rest of my house functions as normal, I don't really care if my oven etc. goes out (though in my next house I'll probably install more panels and move more things off grid) 1) Filled in the four page SSEG off grid application form where I could as various of the parts don't apply or make sense. 2) Crossed out all the parts about inverters or that were irrelevant. 3) Put 'n/a' by the CoC part of 'documents to be submitted' 4) Wrote notes on it at various points that the system was DC only and physically seperated from the grid. 5) Hand drew a 'system diagram' of the whole thing 6) Sent them an email of the above, and mentioned in the email that their requirements in terms of system diagram are vague and the I won't pay for an electrician to do all of this unless they first clarify various of the requirements to avoid a double call out. I then waited about 9 months and in February out of nowhere it was completed, I was never contacted and nobody came to inspect, or if they did I'm not aware of it happening (so its unlikely)
  13. I'm not convinced this is true, based on a recent quote I requested a full geyserrobot system comes in at basically R5500 (Controller, Separate digital display, Thermocouple, Thermostat, Cable and connectors) Plus say R8k of panels, and you are at R13500 - even if the install of the panels costs a further R10-R15k this puts you in the R25k to R30k region which is around where many people are paying for their tube systems. And geyserrobot is one of many competing systems, not necessarily the cheapest or best.. So I'd say its cost competitive, with the PV still potentially having other benefits down the line (longer system life). Further when you later upgrade to a larger PV system for things other than water, theres potential to resell (recoup) part of the geyserrobot cost if you then just plug the geyser/PV into your new inverter instead and sell it off. Either way its easier to upgrade to more PV from there. I think when panels were more expensive the case for tube heaters was better, I'm not so sure its true anymore.
  14. And what about once you add full system lifetime to that equation? The PV will last 20 years or more, how about the tubes and pump?
  15. You are right I think, I have it backwards. My main point was that they differ in spectrum, and in my eagerness to try demonstrate this in a simple analogy I ended up a bit far from the truth. This stuff (light spectrums) is way out of my comfort zone in terms of knowledge, I only know that there is definitely a spectrum difference and that this alone probably makes any extrapolation between the outputs of the two 'tricky' at best. It would be nice to have a better mental model of which parts of the spectrum the different types of PV panels/heating systems on the market actually rely on - and what the given energy in each of those spectrums tends to be for various types of common weather conditions. Something that is easily digestible by us laymen, I tried a brief search on the subject now but theres no super great resources on it to be found.
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