Erastus

Many thanks. Yes I am using a nano as well. R12 can't even buy a Coke. I also use a RF tx/rx (1KM distance) interfacing to the rest. What is the "other solar temp"? I am using 4 x DS18B20 One for the geyser, one for the other tank, one for the temp on the collectors and one for ambient. I never thought about it until this discussion. So I thought would be interesting to see what C one gets at the end of the vacuum tube and then the "latency/time" of transfer. The RF is used to synch a software clock for the geyser wise on/off function and send data to the DB I have running. Thinking of putting a 20amp current sensor to calculate the power usages with a geyser controlled at 60, 65, 55 and then on/off periods. Clever idea the joy stick I am using a STM to interface the different devices. That is for my irrigation, tank levels, koi pond (>55Kl) level which is the main reservoir for my RO and then push it into a online mysql. When done I will push it onto the webb for live monitoring .... Only reason why I am doing this is to see the amount of hot water one can get from a few tubes and then to show buyeye heat pumps is not an option. Thanks for sharing.

Will love to take you out. Lets get the next phase done will be the cost of a solar geyser usage to heat 300l water ... That is where we will compare the heat pump to the solar geyser. The first test was to verify a fancy electronic cct to a timer. Would love to compare the kwhr from the heat pump to solar / conventional. But I agree push more power back to the grid and don't worry about on and off's. I simply did this as a test so others can see facts I appreciate your inputs

temp gauge measuring the water after a few seconds in the closest tamp wash basin or bath or ... Make sure it can measure 0 -75C

I have my temp sensors installed and now I am monitoring the geyser temperature. As for the fancy electronic equipment that people pay to save money. Other than switching the power off lets say at 21H00 and then on at lets say 06H00 and precisely control the temp of the geyser how does these devices save electricity? Take it for granted I understand less time on equals less KWhr and a Temp set to 55C will take less Kwhr than one set at 65C Using a conventional bi metal thermostat we have the same equipment used in a car to control the engine temperature. Therefore the accuracy of these controllers are +/-5% thus the temp set on the geysers thermostat is 55C Therefore the temp will very between 52C and 56C. Then it is clear that the water mass and the amount of water usage when draining the geyser drops the temp and then it heats to 56C. Therefore the low temp gets dropped far below 55 depending on the amount of cold water in put. From this I can not see any difference between a R320 multi day timer and a geyser wise system, If I am wrong and you are in Cape Town I will stick you for a free sushi at Saki my favorite place. Therefore from the first tests I stay put with my statement that these fancy electronics people paying a lot of money for does not save electricity. What I mean by that is that any device a oven, micro wave, a geyser, a heater will use less electricity due to the off time of the timer and for no other reason.

Over the weekend I did this small controller: There are 4 temperature probes. Ambient temperature Manifold temp or temp produces by the vacuum tube Geyser 1 Temp Hot water storage tank. Still did not receive my valve but for now: The solar geyser has a 1500W element with a bi-metal temp controller. I will set this to 65C to ensure that the geyser does not get heated more than 65 by electricity. The software will control the temp the same way as Geyser-wise. The circulation pump will circulate the hot water between the two tanks. Data collection for the first week or will determine the software I got an old 200l geyser that has no element or temp controller. Did not pay for it as some one chucked it and I thought its ideal for this experiment. Analise the on time of the element == KwHr usage with bi-metal and then CPU controlled Impact of adding a small solar system to an existing geyser instead of other "stuff" My objectives are: To determine the amount of hot water can be obtained from a few vacuum tubes. Control the temp the same way as GW regulate the storage not to go below 45C when the ambient temp drops below the days average. Inlet is the water inlet from my RO plant and outlet is the hot water to the home. Should any person want to comment or make suggestions I will appreciate it. Once I have sufficient data for graphs I do graphing and ... Guess this will be OK for a start.

I have no idea of the starting temp. Yes we do use +/- 300l of hot water per day.

I have no logic. I will share the way I did it the pros and cons plus photo's graphs and how I did it to generate max water. maybe open a new topic from where who ever can make suggestions and I will do what I can.

The second try started of well until I applied full vacuum. "Ohhhhhh dearame". Full vacuum highlighted flaws in my "mold". I never worked with vacuum before and am amazed with the strength when continues vacuum gets applied to fiber glass. Thus before I applied resin etc I ran a full vacuum test to check it all. After a few minutes the prop started to show where the week points are and a few wholes in the fiber glass appeared. The vacuum showed all the weakness of the FBG by creating break spots where fiber glass was applied to thin. Recon it is time with the knowledge gain to redo the mold and create a strong multi layer mold. The area in the red circle was ripped from the FBG with full vacuum.

A very nice question that came from this discussion is how effective is a solar collector and the ROI of it. I have the following array of vacuum gas tubes. +/- 98% during this cold and rainy ( 1 in more than 10years) winter we had our hot water generated during the day was more than 80C. There are 11 x 1meter tubes: So I got a new circulation pump: I will now interconnect it with a 200l geyser no element and monitor the temp during the day. A small micro computer will control it. I will remove the old style bi metal temp controller and move a stainless temp sensor that will control the temp. I will also install a T valve : From this I will see the efficiency and potential of the vacuum tubes as well as do a "smarter" "geyserwize" implementation that will do the control. I am pretty sure that I will get 300l water @ 85C from those tubes. Will paste the results and graphs as soon as I get my T valve.

And how right you are. But its there for emergency lights as well. I have a few of them that at night via CPU I can switch to off grid and chrage during the day via solar. A cheap version to replace expensive batteries and inverters. That's more my aim. 8 of these batteries runs my whole house lights when thare are any power issues and during the night I can run of batteries and charge it during the day via solar. All CPU controlled.

Will not argue about heat pumps are better than geysers ... except for the cost. The topic: Geyser ROI's. Electric vs Gas vs Solar Where the ROI on sun backing on a collector is extremely difficult to beat both for installation cost, maintenance and ROI. Not sure how often glass tubes get broken by hail else where in Cpt we hardly see it. Mine is at least 16 years old and still working and still heating the water....

Let me explain to you that I understand that a heat pump is "better" than geyser and let me take on the battery systems as well. Something you have to understand I agree there is a place for heat pumps and there is a place for batteries I am not arguing that. What I am saying not in my home I do not like expensive white elephants that keeps on demanding attention. A frien of mine installed a power wall and all. Over the R200K and they all ready have fancy battery issues.... These systems ask more money and attention than "skelmpie.". The cost of a heat pump: R 15 000 AND HOW LONG DES IT LAST and what is the cost to fix it? In my case my electricity bill was more than R3K not sure how much it will be today and my water bill was > R 2000. Today my water is 0 and my electricity is < R 0.00 That is a tax free savings of more than R5500 per month. Some facts: My computer is on 24/7 I have a 60 000l koi pond/reservoir I have +/- 17 000l swimming pool. 4 fridges 3 large size TV's A geyser and ... In this winter I was building stuff and used only +/- 50% of my solar system . Let me also mention this that for all practical purposes its two families and the most my electricity was R884 for July. Two families each pays R440 if you wish. And I give my neighbor free water. All from my solar system You must understand I do not do this "digging" I will die of boredom. So I dig and scratch my hobby is my work and my work is my hobby. So I play. I listen what people say do a test bed and then see what is the most "COST EFFECTIVE" solution. Therefor my statement if you can afford R 100 000 for batteries then obviously don't listen to me. The question is how many live in A > R 6M house and wants to save on a few Rand's of electricity. Some one very dear and close to me install one of these fancy products and by luck his geyser was set correctly and there was no change. This person listen to a salesman and at the end there was no savings. Trust me it was far more than R1000 the cost. Therefore my main aim for these debates are to show people you can start small expand and then start using the councils money to build your system. You do not have to spend R 40 000 to start saving. Therefore it would be far better for a person to install a solar geyser with some sort of collector than to buy a heat pump at a huge cost. The reality is for +/- R 2000 and a bit of labor you can convert your own geyser and have an immediate impact. Or even better take the R 900 as payment towards a gas hob and immediate you will see the difference. Telling people you need R 50 K batteries, R 30 K heat pump and then R15 K fancy electronics to sound and look smart put it out of reach of +/- 90% in SA. But a gas hob of R 2000 is in reach and its an immediate saving. That is then the first brick of the power saving lego blocks. The next is to do the geyser and will cost +/- R3000 and all of a sudden for R5000 and no fancy electronics the savings are noticeable. I saw a advert on gumtree for R1000 as the person wanted to upgrade. It is a vacuum tube system ... It is this what I thought this article is about. Not to spend money that a lot of people can never reach. But once you spend it on the right stuff then for sure in 4/5 years you will be able to afford batteries and what ever and then you get either the council or the sun to pay. I am sure that this person who asked the question is looking at a better priced system or solutions rather than spending R150K on equipment that you will never have a ROI with an account of R 1500. Therefore my "aggression" towards fancy electronics and gimmicks that makes sale people look smart. Remember I live and eat electronics so I am not anti that stuff. We should be realistic and help people to start get out of the grip of those that steel from us and that is my aim. Do I have anything against a heat pump no. I just can't see how on earth am I going to get R20K back in 3 years on R 1500 electricity account. I assure you this person if he installs a gas hob he will immediately see the difference then he will be exited for the next step and then before long he will have his own solar and ... Once people realize you can by a starter and expand more will go this way. But how on earth do you tell some one start by spending R20K on a heat pump, R 50K on batteries and you have not saved a single penny? There is absolutely no logic in it. Does this mean I am anti some of these devices no not at all. Therefore what I am trying to achieve is to have a path from where a person can see the end goal and achieve step by step success with out hurting monthly expenses. PLEASE I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN'T AFFORD FANCY STUFF. I am only trying to lay out a basic plan from where the most money get wasted and then you can build on with other blocks and pieces and listen to those and then waste money on geyser wize, batteries and heat pumps. But first get the basics in place that you waste council money and not your own. Yes batteries has it place, heat pumps to but only for those who can afford it and who wants to waste their hard earned money.

I understand what you are saying. Guess then one should compare a heat pump with and grid tied geyser. What I am comparing it to is a solar PV generating electricity and on a rainy day you will have even less electricity from solar. Heat pump you either need grid supply or solar.....That is more the line of comparison. I do understand heat pumps are better heat generators than an element. I think and elements are not the best way to generate and transfer heat. If you take a vacuum tube collector then the vacuum seal minimizes heat loss. The fact that the collector is spaced and distanced means that it start collecting from the first ray till the last. In one meter you can have 14 collectors. If you want to be fancy use the fancy water used in radiators to "spread" the heat and have it in a closed loop. It boils down to do you want to spend R30 000 to have a better hot water collector? or can you use double tubes at R 5000.... All these fancy electronic stuff if it is digital, analogue, heat pumps gas you still pay for the energy. Sun is free That is my fundamental problem with geyser wize and the fancy electronics stuff. You may pay less but you only safe when you use the power of the sun.

Thought it is processor controlled and MOS FET's. Interesting. Let me explain, I have a swimming pool pump, a 60 000 koi pond, a water purification plant, a dish washer, Washing machine feed two homes and do I understand that this will affect the inverter? Frightening the power of sales staff. There is a very interesting "quote" : my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. “Because you have rejected knowledge..." Facts are all truth are parallel. I know I am tiptoeing through the Tulips but I never knew that we got to through away scientific facts to be led by 1/2 truths...... Solar is simple: Syn generates free temperature to heat geysers and swimming pools and nothing beats free. The most cost effective way of generating solar energy is to use the grid of a supplier. To support solar wind is a very good additives. The rest is how much you want to waste to say look at me I wasted a lot of money and now I have a system of which I do not need all the stuff ... I am not a politician but so forgive me the reality is simple think smart and save and us the sun that we are so blessed ith in SA and then if you live in Beaufort or PE or Cape town you can top it up with a wind generator/ Therefore there is know cheaper and better way that to directly heat the water in a geyser. If you do it by a vacuum tube system or a insulated collector plate. Both have pluses and minuses. No heat pump, element or fancy electronics can do it better and cheaper. If a solar panel has max 25% efficiency then you need 75% more area for electrical generation and and and and Proof me wrong and I stick you for a very nice Sushi evening. All on me.

If I understand you use geyser wise to lower the temperature from lets say 65 C to 60C and then you save power. Can I not do that with a R20 thermometer with 3l of hot water? What am I missing. You sau I must spend R900 what I can do with a basic thermometer . I guess that says it all. I can have a very nice Sushi for less than that and still use my "koors pen". Ohh dearame, dearame, dearame the sales team sure knows how to "smokkel" with peoples minds. Maybe I am to dumb to understand the real workings of geyser wise but they will not fool me like that.