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Keith

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Posts posted by Keith

  1. I am wondering how much spare solar members of this forum have that is blocked by Zero Feed-in controls? Collectively it could be considerable and every bit could help as it is distributed as opposed to one big input somewhere in the semi desert.

    Anyone on the forum involved in “legalizing” export without having to register as a generator, having a feed-in tariff, etc.

    my grid meter is a Hexing. See it actually knows the difference between import and export. Never been able to get an answer as to how it is programmed? Does it count export onto import? Or is it properly set up to register export in a separate register. So I block export just in case I have to pay for it.

  2. On 2019/06/13 at 3:13 PM, Keith said:

    I started research into solar 2 years ago. Choose to go with a Fronius Primo 4.1. Great that it has 2 mppt and 1000 V DC. Commissioned 1 Jan 2018. Have 15 renewsys 315 Wp on MPPT1.

    just added a Victron Multi, ccgx and li-ion batteries to the system so that i can more fully utilize excess solar.

    img_4176.jpg

    img_4177.jpg

    img_4178.jpg

    Phase 3 now completed. I have moved all DC into a db of its own. DB for AC change over and fronius input. Add a 250/70 smartSolar charge controller with 8 x 370 Wp artsolar panels. Added a smart switch to prevent the fronius tripping the system when the grid fails.

    phase 4 will be to add 2 more batteries that i bought in July 2019 and still waiting for a certain Mr Jacco Jackson to deliver.

    now i have:

    15x310 Wp in series on a fronius 4 kW grid tie connected via an acdc smart switch to AC1 out of a multiplus 5kW.

    8x370Wp on a smartsolar 250/70 (2banks of 4)

    2x EMS 48100A1 li-ion batteries.

    Eskom must do what they like...

    739E8756-249D-43A9-9575-A52274FC9826.jpeg

    A2C12F36-DEF4-4431-9D5E-B9CA4A601992.jpeg

    4B75371D-F499-4A08-BC88-920A921C5E39.jpeg

  3. On 2020/01/11 at 7:51 AM, Keith said:

    Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

    when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

    I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
    id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

    I have now added 8*370Wp panels on a 250/70 SmartSolar charger. So when grid fails I will have solar input. Also added a smart switch that will disconnect the fronius when grid fails. Now probably got enough solar to supply more loads and integrate the control to the smart switch.

  4. On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

    This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

    The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

    The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

    As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

    Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

    when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

    I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
    id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

  5. On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

    This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

    The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

    The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

    As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

    Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

    when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

    I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
    id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

  6. On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

    This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

    The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

    The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

    As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

    Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

    when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

    I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
    id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

  7. 33 minutes ago, PJJ said:

    I know people have probably already pointed it out, but here goes anyway : I would seriously consider adding a MPPT if I where you, with only AC coupling you have a real chance of sitting in a deadlock position while the sun is shining if your batteries went too low.

    thanks, yes that is the plan to add mppt. currently my battery has plenty of charge. it seems the system cant support the fronius on the ac side in a charging mode, it has nothing to latch onto. so there has to be some supply from the inverter for it to work.

  8. Need to figure out why the system trip in grid failure state. System is a Multiplus, Li-ion battery, with a Primo on output 1. No DC charging.. Power fails and Mulri takes over from battery, no problem.
    As soon as the PV power exceeds load and the inverter must now switch over from inverting to charging everything trips (including the CCGX). Then the inverter comes back on, ccgx reboots and power flows. As soon as the fronius then sees  there is life it too switched on and... bang, everything trips.

    Seems to me as soon as the inverter switches to charging there is nothing for the fronius to latch onto? does not help much? the multi and fronius are set with correct frequency control but it is either too slow or the system cant have a fronius on the AC out and charge from AC out1 when there is no grid.

    I run a heater to give a load, then all happy if the the pv is less than load.

    What am i missing here?

  9. Seems the primo is working as it should.

    however, still have one issue. Currently we have a major power outage. My ccgx is in for repairs. So i took ess off and added PV assistant. But the multi is not charging the battery. Plenty excess solar but multi is in inverter and no charging, just controlling the primo.

    currently i have grid off so smart meter is off, inverter was on, primo was on but limited, no charging. Ok so now my battery is low so im in the dark. Battery lasted 22 hours with ac assistance during the day. But not charging, why not?

    oh. When i did have grid there was plenty of charging, seems all from grid. The primo is just reducing the load side...

  10. Ok Thanks. I’ll have a look. I was out last night so did not even look what it did. Should not have been anything to do with the grid being on or off as the PV inverter only sees the multi output.

    if I recall the night mode is On, reports to solar web at night, however, even so at low solar it would disconnect inverter part from grid but still keep energized from grid. So maybe my “disconnect from grid” is not correct term as it only disconnects inverter. Each morning as solar gets to minimum on value it goes through checking and reconnecting the inverter.

  11. And it would be at the most inconvenient time... but it can work without it, not as elegantly but still, it works. The fall back smart meter zero feed in also is a save. Strangely though after sunset the fronius normally disconnects due to low PV power, but last night with mains off and inverter on it did not disconnect? Showing -23 W. So I helped it, switched the cab off.

    you right as a % failure it is most likely small. Plus I am told they have a fairly quick turnaround time.

  12. Thanks. I tried the sdcard boot. But only gets as far as boot and preparing update from Mac.... then does nothing.

    yip, I saved Setting, deleted ess, loaded PV assistant, all good. We had load shedding yesterday from 12:30. Then a fault so power did not return until 23:30. All that time ran on battery power. I have a fronius smart meter which is now controlling zero feed-in, while victron try sort out the ccgx.

    understand from my supplier that they getting a lot of ccgx failures. Boot looping.

  13. My ccgx decided to go on the blink. Repeated rebooting and only gets as far as victron logo.

    So the multi has now stopped charging. 5 kW multi with 4 kW fronius on acout. I have in the mean time reestablished Zero feed in control direct between fronius and it’s smart meter.

    Looking for what settings i can change in multi to charge. If I loose mains it inverts no problem. Load shedding again, Murphy is operational here on my ccgx.

  14. i have a Multi with Fronius AC coupled and Zero Feed-in. All loads connected to the Multi out 1 and 2.

    The control works BUT at the expense of maximizing solar power. All is fine with steady loads. However, in a domestic situation there are often loads that are on/off control (iron, stove plate, oven). While this is on the ccgx controls the fronius output like a yoyo, except down instantly and recovers slowly by which time the load changes again.

    Would it make any difference if i had out 2 loads direct on the grid, installed a meter to create a new zero point. Would the load fluctuation in this connection have the same effect on the control. From an electrical connection it is the same as having then on out 2 but from metering and control it might have a different outcome? anyone know if it would be different?

    Would like to have Adaptive Control whereby the system learns that say 60 % energy is going to come from the grid, so maximize solar input by adding battery charging and let the grid take up the yoyo load.

    Out of interest. How does the control handle fluctuating loads on a Multi with only DC charge controller? Is the solar more maximized in this configuration.

  15. 3 minutes ago, Fuenkli said:

    would this diverter work with a Goodwe hybrid GTI set at zero grid feed in? I am still trying to find an automated solution to divert excess PV power. 

    Best ask Plonkster. i have only been wrestling with Fronius and a Multi.

  16. Good day Plonkster.

    So yesterday pm i disconnected the smart meter modbus. Got the Fronius comms cable and ccgx direct onto the router. i have had a look at the last 12 hours vrm output. Still a few PV errors but they don't seem to affect the charging. They are momentary, maybe a timeout?

    The reason why the load seems to fall away when the error is there is because the output power is the sum of the number ccgx gets from the fronius plus what the multi is measuring on the output. so if the ccgx get nothing from the fronius (error probably i asked but got no response?) then it logs an error and the measured load. Charging continues, fronius is happily generating, but for some strange reason did not respond, time out maybe?

    So i think possibly a few things. initially the fronius firmware update i installed when i did zero feed in set up messed with the wifi strength, so i got bad comms. Fronius is on the edge of my router range. Then i reinstalled the smart meter to try something different. This worked ok. But i had already ordered an ethernet cable and at the same time Fronius had a new firmware to fix the wifi strength. Seems if one leaves the Smart meter in and modbus connected to the Fronius (monitoring only) it might clash with the CCGX tcp modbus communication (well, i have a LOT less errors and they don't seem to be affecting the operation).

    So my understanding on VRM logging is that irrespective of the log interval it will still log every change of state. Thus in the log you had yesterday the log lines are not 30 minutes apart.

    Thanks for all your responses. Think a whole lot of issues combined, but seems to be running nicely now.

     

  17. 1 hour ago, plonkster said:

    Right. You can't shift the grid. The stuff I was talking about is for people using PV-inverters in off-grid systems. It's more common than you'd expect 🙂

    As I said earlier, the two are independent. The Multi has its own brain (a little 8-bit microcontroller) and it does its own thing. The limiter module for the PV-inverters runs on the CCGX (or Venus-GX, Venus device for short) and doesn't care about what the Multi or the solar chargers are doing, it only looks at the power level and makes adjustments as necessary. That is to say, the limiter follows what the Multi is doing rather than the reverse.

    If the Pv-inverter didn't limit the power it would not make the Multi any faster. It would just end up pushing into the grid.

    I still don't understand why it does that though. Normally the Multi will spool up to full charge power in a matter of seconds.

    maybe it only looks bad on the VRM trends. I took a look earlier. Monday is wash day so not much spare PV. Still there was a few control points. I exported some out of VRM. I note that every so often there is an error, without a reason code. normally at night i would get the code in that field. Should not be as i have a cable in for the comms.

    Wondering how i can track this. PV pumps all the time it is not disconnecting, and as far as i know the Fronius is always present on the ccgx, don't see it disappearing as was the case when i was on wifi and fronius missed with the wifi power.

    Attached PDF output of VRM

    17Perth_20190819-1000_to_20190819-1507 1.pdf

  18. However, in the case where these are sitting on the grid, the frequency can not be changed by the multi. Only if it disconnects off the grid and runs on inverter can it dictate the frequency. Thus they are not using frequency in the case of fronius to do pv reduction.

    if one selects the fronius inverter on the ccgx devices. In the table below L1, 2, 3. There is a value of inverter limit. In my case when it is not limited it is 4000w it seems this is sent to the fronius as a set point. Ccgx then changes this number down to whatever new set point below 4000 is needed. Then as matters settle the number gradually climbs back up, slowly. This must be sent to fronius by modbus tcp. It is also recorded in the last column of the vrm data download.

    I find the multi very sluggish to increase charge power, it seems the first priority is to reduce the fronius power. I have asked victron but that community site is most unresponsive. And i am not the only one who sees the pv limit operating in stead of increasing charge power.

     

  19. Thanks. No problem setting up the fronius. Just below the fronius zero feed switch is a no if things are not right in the settings but mine is yes. So ill check on how well it is controlling.

    i was also concerned with the frequency in ess start at 50.2 hz and i have been seeing eskom drifting up to 50.36  hz on vrm. But in the documents it has start at 51 hz. So i went in earlier to change that. Confusing documents. 1. Says no need to change the frequency. Next point 2. Says change it and gives a table for 50 and 60 hz 🤷‍♂️.

    1. Note that it is not necessary to change the default settings in the Assistant. 
      ac_coupling:8b249443cd6d2a5632b07998773a 
    2. Complete the rest of the Assistant and write the new settings to the MultiPlus or Quattro.

     

    Table for settings for 50Hz and 60Hz frequency

    State  50Hz  60Hz  .
    Start 51.0  60.2 Hz
    Minimum 52.7  62.7 Hz
    Disconnect 53.0  63.0 Hz

    More information on adding Assistants is here.

  20. Thanks. No problem setting up the fronius. Just below the fronius zero feed switch is a no if things are not right in the settings but mine is yes. So ill check on how well it is controlling.

    i was also concerned with the frequency in ess start at 50.2 hz and i have been seeing eskom drifting up to 50.36  hz on vrm. But in the documents it has start at 51 hz. So i went in earlier to change that. Confusing documents. 1. Says no need to change the frequency. Next point 2. Says change it and gives a table for 50 and 60 hz 🤷‍♂️.

    1. Note that it is not necessary to change the default settings in the Assistant. 
      ac_coupling:8b249443cd6d2a5632b07998773a 
    2. Complete the rest of the Assistant and write the new settings to the MultiPlus or Quattro.

     

    Table for settings for 50Hz and 60Hz frequency

    State  50Hz  60Hz  .
    Start 51.0  60.2 Hz
    Minimum 52.7  62.7 Hz
    Disconnect 53.0  63.0 Hz

    More information on adding Assistants is here.

     

  21. Hi I pulled in an ethernet cable for the comms between Fronius and my router. Also assigned to ccgx/multi to do the control/charge.

    a comment i got from one installer where i got my Multi from said the control is bad because 1. that comms to the battery must be good else ess dont work well. (My system has Li-ion and the bms not supported. So the Multi is the  charge controller. Is this a problem? and would a BMS 700 make matters better? Victron ESS says if the multi is the only charger i dont need a BMS) 2. I dont have DC MPPT on my system. (Well that would add an additional pv source and add another thing to control... So i am not entirely convinced that it is not handling things well because i lack a MPPT on DC side.)

    All loads are on AC out 1 and 2 so i dont need a victron power meter. the Multi does this measurement. however, would a meter improve the control?

  22. 20 hours ago, plonkster said:

    Yup, that is exactly what I have in mind. The Primo tries to push it down to zero, and the multi tries to pull it up to 250W. The effect should be that while there is enough loads and/or space in the batteries for charging, you will import 250W and the Fronius will run flat-out. Then as the batteries starts to fill up, the Multi won't be able to import all of the power the Fronius is making and the Fronius will start to win the fight and push it down to zero. And then its limiter will activate.

    So i set grid down yesterday to 250 W. Primo still on 0 W. last night no grid charging. and earlier on the system started charging. had a look at the PV graph on VRM portal. di do a little pull back at about 1148, that's ok. tried a little lower than 250W but then it is a bit close so i think for now i will leave it at 250W and watch it.

    Much better results.

    i am going to add a MPPT 250/60 with 8x330 Wp panels on the DC side and doubling the battery capacity, now 200 Ah. plus at some later stage i can add PV on MPPT2 of the Primo, in a different direction to extend the noon harvest into late afternoon. getting there, slowly, bit by bit.

    first screen shot is today smart meter/Primo control. second screen shot is ccgx/multiplus effort.

    image.png.69a15a9d0d7c55e4e5c7c0c7ed83171c.pngimage.png.97ef5f6ca57b20bf5d895a0c0b14779e.png

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