Bobster.

What they're saying is that if you have any form of SSEG that is unregistered or that doesn't meet all the safety codes, then they will disconnect. This is a problem. I have PV, but not every now and then I take a sip from the grid. If they cut me off then can I survive? More pointedly, if I think I can survive without grid power then why am I still connected to the grid? I don't think we should be too blasé about this message. This is why I'm following this conversation: We have a guy who has gradually got himself into a situation where he's very sure he can survive without the grid, has done that analysis, and now he's going to legally disconnect. I don't think there are a lot of folks who have done that, and fewer who are documenting the process so that we can see how it's done.

Yeah. When I've dealt directly with City Power they've been helpful. I remember my meter failing one morning when power was restored. 2 hours after I left the City Power depot in Randburg there was a guy at my house to restore power.

Eskom are waiving their registration fees and the cost of a new meter until end March.

This is one of the drivers of the activity we are seeing from City Power. They were unhappy with COJ's billing and meter reading, so they are taking that back in house.

There's this This makes little sense to me, because buying lots of prepaid upfront does not save you money because of the sliding scale. It is cheaper to buy a small amount each month. Anyhoo... this looks like the City are disconnecting, then charging the fee for reconnection. In some cases. I say "some cases" because I have a registered system and a pre-paid meter. There are other folks in my street with PV, and some of them are on pre-paid too. Nobody has disconnected any of us, though some are planning to disconnect from the grid.

The City has said that there will be disconnections for residents who do not co-operate with City Power staff, and that there will be penalties on over due amounts. Certainly they can already start applying interest on overdue amounts, but in cases where meters are bridged it's hard for them to know exactly how much you owe them. City Power gave a deadline in June - for people who have PV and pre-paid. Possibly Eskom have some deadline for March.

So the words I quoted are from COJ's approved tariffs document. These are the documents that govern what we pay the city. It is certainly there in the 2019 document and I started hoping that maybe it was only in there. IE it was a rule then, but isn't now. But it is reported by the Citizen and by Moneyweb in July 2023. Note that there are multiple tariff documents each financial year, including a one pager that allows us to do calculations along the lines of "used to pay that, now will pay this." Just a reminder that what you post here is effectively public, will get picked up by search engines, can get posted to other forums and even discussed there. I suppose this shouldn't need saying, but I was just a little taken aback to find myself quoted on another forum along with a suggestion that I am talking from a part of my body that is not my mouth. This may be better than people acting like I'm a lawyer or something. The wording appears again in the 2024/5 approved Tariff documents. And shoot! It's there in the 2025/6 tariffs. That's the tariffs that apply right now. So my brief spell of optimism came to nothing.

I can give you wording, but not, at this time, book chapter and verse. Remember that this is City Power, not any other supplier “All residential customers who would be willing to invest in embedded generation with the purpose of supplementing their electricity supply from City Power, will have to be on a time-of-use conventional tariff structure. If they are currently on a prepaid structure, they will be required to migrate to the time-of-use conventional tariff structure.” My argument, when the time comes, will be "fine. Please move me to a TOU structure". And then I will hope they don't do that because the reseller's tariff is next to nothing, the fixed fees (per COJ's tariff book) are even higher than for post-paid, and I will have to pay for the new meter.

I'm referring to COJ regulations. If you're not supplied by City Power then these probably don't apply to you. But check carefully. I am a City Power customer, and I have the combination they say is not allowed. I think there are many cases of the left hand not knowing what the right hand did. My system is registered. I hid nothing from City Power and declared that I had a pre-paid meter. Yet here I am... This remains the case with City Power. Prepaid users pay more per kWh. But they pay much lower fixed fees. OK, City Power want to move people with PV systems off of pre-paid. If you don't have PV, do have pre-paid, have been buying and haven't tampered with the installation then nothing changes. If you are not supplied by City Power then their statements that we are discussing here have no relevance to you. The controversial aspect is that they are saying that we can't have PV and pre-paid. But that is not a new regulation. I don't know if my meter is "smart" or not. It doesn't do any of the things that smart meters are reported to do, but maybe that's just because they haven't enabled those features where I live. I suspect that because it is not bi-directional it records any power coming from the inverter as if it came from the grid. But if that is happening then it is, as you say, cents. I don't worry because any remedy is going to cost me more. Anecdotal evidence, from a conversation with a City Power engineer, is that they usually uncover the combination of PV and pre-paid because somebody complains that their meter is eating credit too fast, and they find that it is a pre-paid meter linked to a PV system that is exporting. Which suggests that they are not bi-directional. But they still do supply electricity. My own attitude is that if I connect a system that has the ability to feed back to their grid, then they have a legitimate interest in that.

No. I choose to read that letter as they may do stuff, but so far they have not.

Thats good news. Thanks for the updates.

Actually, maybe not. Depends what they keep on record. The application includes the serial number of your inverter and GPS locations. They tell you not to change anything. But the letter says I have a 5kW system on stand such-and-such connected to meter so-and-so. There was verbally given information that if anything changes so that the system differs from the line drawing then I have to re-register. But nothing in the paperwork.

We have done most of the adjusting already. We learned a long time ago that too many kitchen appliances on at the same time is the kiss of death. I have moved the run times for the heat pump away from the times when people are making themselves breakfast and a hot drink. We have full gas for cooking, but the microwave and air fryer get used a lot. This gets me all twitchy, but in fact the system never trips and we get through the night on the battery, so I have to get over it. As it is, most days we could actually run off-grid with our current routines. If I installed an 8kW inverter then we'd likely have no problems. And it may get to the point where that outlay makes rands and cents sense. It would invalidate my SSEG registration, but if we're going to go off-grid then so what?

Are there any variables in this? EG how far you are from the sub station? Where your meter is? I presume that as with so many things to do with the City, your account has to be paid up and you may not be in dispute with the City.

Yes. Things happen differently if you go straight to CP. It is not that they are unhelpful, but they are poorly led, starved for budget, and communications are bad. The one time I actually went to the office was because my meter had gone pop. I remember that I left there just on 9:00 because I had a Teams meeting pending, and I called my boss to say that I might be a couple of minutes late and probably in the car. At 11:30 CP arrived to restore power to my property. I also didn't have a long wait for pre-paid. Though it depends on when you deem the process to start. Once I accepted their quote things moved quite quickly. These "queue for you" services can work actually. They know people inside the City and which offices they sit in. I recall getting a car I'd sold off of my name. I engaged a local company. The twist here is that you must present in person. So the agent says to me "meet me OUTSIDE the department at 9:00 on Tuesday. DO NOT go inside. DO NOT join any queue." When he arrives he says follows me, walks past all the queues and into some office. He then says to the guy behind the desk "this is the owner. Can we agree that he was here in person?". The guy behind the desk agrees. I get told that I can go and will be called when the documents are done. Or the guys who handled my SSEG registration. They just got me to sign a letter empowering them to act as my proxy for the purposes of SSEG registration. I did that and just got on with my life - no queuing, and more importantly no queuing all day to find out I'd been standing in the wrong queue.

The pool pump is now the biggest load in my house. The biggest instantaneous load by far is that lawn mower. To go off-grid I would need to get all my un-backed up loads moved over. I am thinking along these lines 1) Run the inverter in off-grid mode for a day. This will test if we can cope with the steam iron which usually drives the inverter crazy and results in lots of short-lived draws from the grid. This will cost me some credit on my pre-paid because the pool pump (not backed up) will run off of the grid for a day. 2) If that goes OK, then I need to beg, borrow or buy a lawn mower made in the last 5 years and try to run that off the backed up circuits. I can use the Kill-A-Watt to get some readings of total and instaneous load. 3) If both go OK then I can have the PV system rewired with a switch to move the out buildings onto the backed up side of the inverter if I want. This allows me to run independently of the grid (which I can already do most days) 4) All the above being passed, request a disconnect.

In my experience, you need a battery that the Goodwe has a program for (this does not include FiveStar) OR you need a battery that can take over and tell the Goodwe what it wants. My Freedom Won does this. I doubt it's the only brand that has this ability. The inverter is set for default lithium, and when the comms cable between inverter and BMS was plugged in, the BMS took over and set the Goodwe the way it wanted. The "self-define" option on the Goodwe is a hang over from lead/acid battery days. My understanding is that you currently have a BYD B-Box. Why do you think that the FiveStars can be paralleled with the BYD? Which will be the master and which the slave? I have been told that you get virtually any battery to work with any other, but this is not something inverter manufacturers (or battery manufacturers!) will support or want to have anything to do with.

Registration is required when any alternate source of power (usually this is solar) is wired to your grid connection and has the ability to send power back to the grid. So in your case it should not be required. Unless you already have the system installed and CP are going to get pedantic and say it should have been registered all along and so must be registered now etc etc. If you have no grid connection you have nothing that can interact with the grid and so City Power have no interest. There's been talk about this. I don't know if there is a process, but if there is it's not very clear to mere mortals such as us. It would be very helpful if you document here what you had to do to get permanently disconnected.

I found this out a couple of years ago. I wasn't sure about lawnmowers. Fridges, deep freezes, washing machines now are very efficient.

Well it wasn't bought last month, let's put it that way. Old Wolf.

I learned this lesson with my heat pump. Sometimes in cold weather it gives a beep on start up. And I am instantly awake and thinking OMG there's an ERROR and I go running over to the DB to turn the geyser circuit breaker off and then back on again which is enough down time to screw with the pump's own clock which I then have to reset and then the thing starts working again. The reality is that the beep just indicates some sort of unhappiness that prevents it starting now, but if I give it a little time (about as much time as it takes me to run to the DB and etc...) it will clear that error condition and start running as usual. So now I treat that beep as "it's your turn to get up and make coffee".

I think CP might not have a disconnection process worked out. Thinking about it, it's got to be more than removing their breaker and the meter. That's just giving us permission to connect for free. So they have to remove some of the cable. That's not easy. And I would bet that until recently nobody was coming to them and saying "please disconnect me". Like @Denns I have a low consumption household - not THAT low though - and I am actually quite close to being able to go off grid. I would want to test first. The one obvious problem is the lawn mower. It has an electric motor and pulls about 2kW when it's running, but to start up it briefly draws in the order of 7kW and that will trip my inverter every time. So make sure you really can go off grid. All you need is what I have - one load that wants a lot of power just as it starts up - and then you may wish you had that connection back. I do actually have an alternative - an old push mower. Or a new, old-style push mower. I bought this when we had stage 6 shedding. It's more work, but I have lots of time on my hands now. But when I come to sell one day, I don't want to tell a buyer, or have him find out, that he can't run his lawn mower. That is not going to make him feel lekker about the place. I could stipulate that the system is limited to 20 amps. I expect we will be in this situation quite soon when people realise that buying an off-grid house means having to make life style changes that might not suit them. Folks do like convenience.

How long a period are we talking about? The inverters are not meant to reconnect immediately the power comes back. They are supposed to wait a randomised time and then reconnect. This is deliberate and all good brands (IE inverter is on the approved inverter list) do it so as to not contribute to surge on restoration. Then there's the question of WHEN they deem grid to be available. My Goodwe watches frequency and voltage and when they are within tolerance then it reconnects. I can adjust the tolerance on the voltage, but then I run the risk of my inverter not letting go when voltage drops low and causing damage to devices on the backed up circuits. How possible is it that turning on and off is just taking the time that would have been taken by the above anyway?

I've had no recent communication. I did get a letter at registration time. What I see where I live is lots of auditing going on - bells ring, it's City Power wanting to have a look. There are easy methods for them to use. How much electricity is a consumer paying for in a month? This is not new. They used to have a policy of flagging any prepaid meter that showed no activity for three months, or any meter where the usage suddenly dropped. I got several visits in the months after I had PV installed. There's a person lives near to me who has PV and prepaid but for whatever reason still buys about 2 grand of electricity a month. They probably won't get bothered. Another method is to just look on our roofs. They can use Google maps for that. Sure, Jo'burg is a big place, but they can do a suburb at a time. Or just send out drones (apparently this is what COCT do). I wish experts could agree. I have seen one councillor in my neck of the woods very sarcastically claiming that CP are just sucking this out of their thumbs. Another (same party) has quoted me book, chapter and verse from the regulations and says that this all stems from national regulations and, like it or not, has to happen. It is probably true that there hasn't been a recent resolution. The regulations quoted to me are not new, were not given the OK in the last 6 months.