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Darrenf

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Posts posted by Darrenf

  1. 16 hours ago, AndrewinPlett said:

    Get an idea of 

    1. Average KWH consumption per day = idea of no panels and battery requirements, size of inverter

    2. What is maximum load at any time (without a meter need to calculate using appliance watt specs) = size of inverter

    3. Average KWH consumption at night (winter = 16+ hours) = battery size

    If you are going to jump in then consider more than the just loadshedding, look more at investing in reducing your need to use Eskom as little as possible. The big bucks are in what you don't pay to Eskom.  The returns on the investment is that money that you would pay to Eskom, that you would be paying back to yourself, and after 6/7 years will make a profit for you because the system will be paid off and that money goes directly into your bank account. A loadshedding solution works out to be a convenience but saves very little. Scrap together as much as you can in the beginning, and/or plan a schedule to upgrade to the final solution

    https://globalsolaratlas.info/map?c=-31.358328,19.660034,7 is a good site to get an idea how much solar you can generate in summer/winter at your location 

    https://app.opensolar.com/#/home allows you to build and test solar solutions, including shading issues - free account

    You can provide me your location and your expected average KWH usage per day,  and I could build a energy profile for you

    Fantastic thank you so much!

  2. 34 minutes ago, mzezman said:

    If you didn't even know about 3-phase then its likely your place is single phase (as are most houses). An audit will help you size the inverter and batteries that you'll need for your setup. At a very high level (don't quote me) you should be fine with an 8kw inverter and 5-10kwh battery + 8-16 panels. But lets get the data first and see where that lands us. What is your budget?

    Also just got confirmation I am on single phase :)

  3. 32 minutes ago, mzezman said:

    If you didn't even know about 3-phase then its likely your place is single phase (as are most houses). An audit will help you size the inverter and batteries that you'll need for your setup. At a very high level (don't quote me) you should be fine with an 8kw inverter and 5-10kwh battery + 8-16 panels. But lets get the data first and see where that lands us. What is your budget?

    Amazing thanks Mzezman, apprecaite the help! I will feedback with the usage asap.

  4. 53 minutes ago, mzezman said:

    The 12kw SS is a 3-phase system. Do you need 3 phase power? The amount of power on each phase is also limited - i think its 6-3-3 but i could be wrong. Have you done a power audit - even for  day or so to understand your peak usage and usage trends?

    HI there thanks for the reply, to be honest I don't even know what 3-phase details I do not think I require this I just want to power the household so open to any suggestions.

    I have also not done a power audit but I will do this so I know what kind of usage I have. I am pn pre-paid so i will take a heavy usage day (usually weekends) and determine what usage I have.

    Thank you!

  5. Hi all,

    Looking for some help please, I have done a ton of research however I am not finding anything conclusive.

    I would like to a full built in invertor that can keep my home running during load shedding. I would like to do this properly the 1st time and with a reputable provider.

    I have a 3 bedroom house with a solar and powered geyser and have the following items...

    Console, 65inch tv, 3 x pc's with 2 monitors and the rest is the normal applicances (2 x Aircon, oven, fridge) and lighting.

    I was looking at the Sunsynk 12KW with solar panels but not sure what is my best option, so any advice would be greatly apprecaited!

    The portable devices and trolleys are cool but would prefer something integrated with the DC which covers the house.

    Something to note is I do not need to use the oven during load shedding.

    I am based in the Cape.

     

    Thanks in advance peeps!

  6. On 2020/07/13 at 9:21 PM, Jaco de Jongh said:

    O boy, I am struggling to get to everybody, I have spend most of the weekend on the phone gaining info I need for numerous quotes, and then the loadshedding started, could not get quotes out last night, and today as I walked into the AirBNB in JHB the power went off for another 5 hours, I am only starting with quotations now and hope to have a price ready for you in the next 2 days. Sorry!!

    Hey Jaco, no worries or rush, have an old UPS running the wifi for now so all good till you get a gap :)

  7. On 2020/07/11 at 6:24 AM, Jaco de Jongh said:

    And replace the batteries a few times before that 5 years are over. I have stopped supplying replacement batteries to clients with those trolleys because they think its my fault that the batteries only last a year before they need to replace them. 

    Hi there @Jaco de Jongh, Plonkster advised you did a Victron type setup for someone in Bloem, Could you tell me what something like that would cost?

  8. 5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

    Personally I would much rather sell you a decent Victron system, or direct you to someone who can help with that. I am unfortunately not clued up about where to buy these other brands, I sometimes see those trolleys at Builders Warehouse, and I know they come without batteries.

    Thank you! What type of cost am I looking at for a Victron solution and installation?

  9. On 2020/07/11 at 3:24 PM, plonkster said:

    Hahaha yes. But you can make a compromise. If you can trim the power requirements a bit, then for the same price as that trolley you can have this. Tht That ticks almost all the boxes, except it is a tad small. You could probably fit the essentials (some lights, an internet router, a television) into that 400W easily, but it is only going to last an hour if you do that. You could probably get a really long way with just 200W (again, if we're really talking ONLY essentials), but it still doesn't quite handle a 4-hour slot.

    You could also look at BlueNova's drop-in replacements and stick those in your Axpert/Mecer trolley, but then you might as well use a 24V Pylontech battery (same price)... cause now we're talking >20k on the battery alone. Once you get to this point, you should start wondering if it is a good idea to spend that much money on a 24V battery and if you shouldn't rather shoot for 48V... and once you get to this point, you are way further down the rabbit hole than you planned on being 🙂

    I'd say get the 24V trolley (or make your own) and stick two 100Ah OmniSolar batteries on it. That's going to set you back around 8k for the batteries and another 8k or so for the trolley/inverter+accessories. 16k-20k. Not a cheap game this...

    Again thanks so much Plonkster, do you by any chance know where I would be able to source each part (trolley, inverter and batteries) you mention? I don't mind spending a bit extra as reading the above on the other batteries does not breed confidence :(

  10. Right so after rabbit holing for a week I have decided to go with one of the 2 options and be done with it lol

    So if you had the choice between the 2 which one would ya order? :)

    https://www.geewiz.co.za/load-shedding-solutions/111207-1048-axpert-type-pure-sine-3000va-inverter-2x-100ah-battery-8-hour-battery-life-kit-3000w-80a-solar.html#/132-battery_type-100ah_standard_200_250_cycles

    https://www.geewiz.co.za/long-run-ups-inverter-battery/93614-1030-mecer-axpert-3000va-pure-sine-inverter-2x-100ah-battery-8-hour-battery-life-kit-3000w.html#/132-battery_type-100ah_standard_200_250_cycles

    Price is negligible between the 2 and I will just replace batteries one day, or hopefully buy a place and get a proper built in system, for now one of these seem will serve my immediate purpose.

  11. 19 minutes ago, introverter said:

    late to the party but brought my own drinks so will hang around in the parking lot...and in the spirit of "give a man a fish blah blah... but teach him to hot wire a car..."

    EDIT: @Darrenf noticed I bombarded you previously with my rambling, you are welcome to ask for more clarification/explanation 🙂

    Don't worry about total household consumption since you only want to power a couple of very specific things.

    Ideally get some form of power meter (about R500 from what ever your flavour of online shop)... .or less ideal check each "appliance" for the label that shows you the power rating (like a 2000W kettle).... or search online for general estimates since many appliances don't actually list the power rating (my TV does not... but I checked my 47" (OLD school, not OLED) TV, AV amplifier, android TV box thingi, and B315 router all combined average about 125W).

    Add all the various power requirements up and you will probably not even pass 500W (but if possible check your own numbers). So you could probably get by with a 500-800W inverter.

    Now multiply the total power requirement by hours you want to power it for. 4h * 500W =2000Wh - this is technically how much energy you will need from a battery to power these things. Because energy conversion is not perfect and to allow some extra room, add an efficiency factor of 80%.... devide the 2000Wh by 0.8... 2000Wh/0.8 = 2500Wh will be a safer number to work with.

    Here is where things can seem to become too technical but soldier on...., batteries will specify their voltage (12V, 24V, 48V most common) and their storage ability (in either Amp hour (Ah) or Watt hour (Wh)). Lithium batteries often specify the capacity in Wh and lead acid batteries in Ah. So how do you decide if a given battery will be "big" enough? Lithium just compare the Wh numbers. For lead acid (like the adds posted in this thread) take YOUR Wh number and devide it by the listed battery voltage. The first add has a single 12V 100Ah battery. So...2500Wh/12V = 208Ah. You will need a 208Ah 12V lead acid battery to power 500W for 4 hours - so a single battery like the one add will not be enough since it is a 100Ah battery. You can connect two 100Ah batteries in parallel then you will have a 200Ah but still 12V battery, so two of  those batteries might be needed (or maybe two 60Ah batteries?....read on first).

    The second add says it comes with 2 batteries.... but if you check the specifications you will likely find that the inverter works on 24V (the two batteries are connected in series), so you have a 100Ah 24V battery (even though it is made with two 100Ah 12V batteries).... will the 2 batteries be big enough?... 2500Wh/24V = 104Ah... so this is closer.

    BUT lead acid batteries do not have a very long total life before they "break" if you tend to use more than 50% of their capacity. So if looking at lead acid battery systems you will make life simpler if you take your power requirement and double it from the start. 2500Wh * 2 = 5000Wh.... 5000Wh/12V~400Ah.... or 5000Wh/24V~200Ah. So whether you go with 12V or 24V you will need at least four 100Ah batteries (or eight 50Ah batteries or two 200Ah batteries). Lithium batteries will generally let you use about 90% of their capacity but lithium is heavy on the pocket (depending how you do your sums)

    I attached an excel sheet which can help you play around with some numbers. Change the battery voltage and time (in red font) as you need/want and add your appliances+watts in the yellow columns to the list. Since this is about load shedding you should also look at things lile time available to recharge the batteries (the sheet will show you how much time you need depending on the charger capacity to recharge the battery). Use at own risk (do not use it to make calculations to power grandma's iron lung)

    Any of the mentioned systems should meet your inverter requirement but I suspect you will end up with a flat battery often and/or have to buy new batteries after a couple of months.

    The "off-the-shelf" solutions can generally be made up cheaper by just combining everything yourself. I would personally not install the Axpert inverter laying flat though (like in the add)... pretty sure the unit thermal regulation was designed around a vertical install. If you can change a plug on a toaster you should be able to make up a system - especially for your listed needs. If not comfortable doing that - no shame in that (and stay out of the DB!).

    Another option to the miriad of "ready made" UPS type systems that you can look at in your budget is something like a DIY victron multiplus 12/800 inverter charger (R8500-9500) combined with a second life Mecer 200Ah/2500Wh 12V lithium battery (R6400-R7500). Add a victron Mk3 USB cable (R1200) so you can make some changes to the inverter settings from a laptop. Get a battery place to make you up some 25mm2 cable with properly crimped lugs, add a fuse between battery and inverter, put it on trolley in a box (make sure the battery terminals are at least covered) if you want and you should have the lightest, least intrusive system that should meet your power needs in terms of inverter power, fast enough charger for most load shedding scenarios, and with a bit of careful load management your total storage capacity should be enough.

    The axpert type systems definitely are lower cost and simpler (no extra cable/laptop needed for changing settings) and you have a screen to see what is happening. Especially the 3000W inverters give you more options to power something like a kettle if you really need to (not gonna do that with a 800W any inverter). The axpert type systems also generally add the option out of the box that you can add solar panels later without needing any other bits than solar panels, solar cable and solar fuse/disconnects.

    If you think/gamble that load shedding will only be around now-and-again for a day or two and you want to keep this grudge purchase as cheap as possible, then also consider just battery, a separate smallish inverter and a loose battery charger. (keep charger connected to battery, when load shedding comes around, hook up the inverter... when load shedding goes away again for 3 months... put inverter in cupboard). Here you will just lose out on the automatic/"seemless" switch over when load shedding happens that you get with the axpert/multiplus type systems.

    If going axpert type system - try and make sure it is an original voltronic produced inverter (quality and support on the clones seems somewhat iffy).

    last thing... Just a note on having any system next to the TV... all these systems contain fans that switch on at least when charging the battery at a high rate and possibly when powering the load... you could find that it bothers you if right next to the TV.

    whoop-whooop...that's the sound of the police... off I go..

    LoadShed_Calc.xlsx 12.73 kB · 0 downloads

    Thanks for all this info I shall definitely take the listed into consideration. Thank you so much

  12. 19 minutes ago, introverter said:

    late to the party but brought my own drinks so will hang around in the parking lot...and in the spirit of "give a man a fish blah blah... but teach him to hot wire a car..."

    EDIT: @Darrenf noticed I bombarded you previously with my rambling, you are welcome to ask for more clarification/explanation 🙂

    Don't worry about total household consumption since you only want to power a couple of very specific things.

    Ideally get some form of power meter (about R500 from what ever your flavour of online shop)... .or less ideal check each "appliance" for the label that shows you the power rating (like a 2000W kettle).... or search online for general estimates since many appliances don't actually list the power rating (my TV does not... but I checked my 47" (OLD school, not OLED) TV, AV amplifier, android TV box thingi, and B315 router all combined average about 125W).

    Add all the various power requirements up and you will probably not even pass 500W (but if possible check your own numbers). So you could probably get by with a 500-800W inverter.

    Now multiply the total power requirement by hours you want to power it for. 4h * 500W =2000Wh - this is technically how much energy you will need from a battery to power these things. Because energy conversion is not perfect and to allow some extra room, add an efficiency factor of 80%.... devide the 2000Wh by 0.8... 2000Wh/0.8 = 2500Wh will be a safer number to work with.

    Here is where things can seem to become too technical but soldier on...., batteries will specify their voltage (12V, 24V, 48V most common) and their storage ability (in either Amp hour (Ah) or Watt hour (Wh)). Lithium batteries often specify the capacity in Wh and lead acid batteries in Ah. So how do you decide if a given battery will be "big" enough? Lithium just compare the Wh numbers. For lead acid (like the adds posted in this thread) take YOUR Wh number and devide it by the listed battery voltage. The first add has a single 12V 100Ah battery. So...2500Wh/12V = 208Ah. You will need a 208Ah 12V lead acid battery to power 500W for 4 hours - so a single battery like the one add will not be enough since it is a 100Ah battery. You can connect two 100Ah batteries in parallel then you will have a 200Ah but still 12V battery, so two of  those batteries might be needed (or maybe two 60Ah batteries?....read on first).

    The second add says it comes with 2 batteries.... but if you check the specifications you will likely find that the inverter works on 24V (the two batteries are connected in series), so you have a 100Ah 24V battery (even though it is made with two 100Ah 12V batteries).... will the 2 batteries be big enough?... 2500Wh/24V = 104Ah... so this is closer.

    BUT lead acid batteries do not have a very long total life before they "break" if you tend to use more than 50% of their capacity. So if looking at lead acid battery systems you will make life simpler if you take your power requirement and double it from the start. 2500Wh * 2 = 5000Wh.... 5000Wh/12V~400Ah.... or 5000Wh/24V~200Ah. So whether you go with 12V or 24V you will need at least four 100Ah batteries (or eight 50Ah batteries or two 200Ah batteries). Lithium batteries will generally let you use about 90% of their capacity but lithium is heavy on the pocket (depending how you do your sums)

    I attached an excel sheet which can help you play around with some numbers. Change the battery voltage and time (in red font) as you need/want and add your appliances+watts in the yellow columns to the list. Since this is about load shedding you should also look at things lile time available to recharge the batteries (the sheet will show you how much time you need depending on the charger capacity to recharge the battery). Use at own risk (do not use it to make calculations to power grandma's iron lung)

    Any of the mentioned systems should meet your inverter requirement but I suspect you will end up with a flat battery often and/or have to buy new batteries after a couple of months.

    The "off-the-shelf" solutions can generally be made up cheaper by just combining everything yourself. I would personally not install the Axpert inverter laying flat though (like in the add)... pretty sure the unit thermal regulation was designed around a vertical install. If you can change a plug on a toaster you should be able to make up a system - especially for your listed needs. If not comfortable doing that - no shame in that (and stay out of the DB!).

    Another option to the miriad of "ready made" UPS type systems that you can look at in your budget is something like a DIY victron multiplus 12/800 inverter charger (R8500-9500) combined with a second life Mecer 200Ah/2500Wh 12V lithium battery (R6400-R7500). Add a victron Mk3 USB cable (R1200) so you can make some changes to the inverter settings from a laptop. Get a battery place to make you up some 25mm2 cable with properly crimped lugs, add a fuse between battery and inverter, put it on trolley in a box (make sure the battery terminals are at least covered) if you want and you should have the lightest, least intrusive system that should meet your power needs in terms of inverter power, fast enough charger for most load shedding scenarios, and with a bit of careful load management your total storage capacity should be enough.

    The axpert type systems definitely are lower cost and simpler (no extra cable/laptop needed for changing settings) and you have a screen to see what is happening. Especially the 3000W inverters give you more options to power something like a kettle if you really need to (not gonna do that with a 800W any inverter). The axpert type systems also generally add the option out of the box that you can add solar panels later without needing any other bits than solar panels, solar cable and solar fuse/disconnects.

    If you think/gamble that load shedding will only be around now-and-again for a day or two and you want to keep this grudge purchase as cheap as possible, then also consider just battery, a separate smallish inverter and a loose battery charger. (keep charger connected to battery, when load shedding comes around, hook up the inverter... when load shedding goes away again for 3 months... put inverter in cupboard). Here you will just lose out on the automatic/"seemless" switch over when load shedding happens that you get with the axpert/multiplus type systems.

    If going axpert type system - try and make sure it is an original voltronic produced inverter (quality and support on the clones seems somewhat iffy).

    last thing... Just a note on having any system next to the TV... all these systems contain fans that switch on at least when charging the battery at a high rate and possibly when powering the load... you could find that it bothers you if right next to the TV.

    whoop-whooop...that's the sound of the police... off I go..

    LoadShed_Calc.xlsx 12.73 kB · 0 downloads

     

  13. HI there,

    Firstly thanks for your response!

    1. yes currently all on one plug (well the TV, HT server and fiber are all on one circuit. Isolating them is easy as they all fit onto one circuit behind the TV stand.

    2. very easily, we don't have to charge phones or laptops unless its an emergency as they will stay charged while there is normal power.

    WIth your comment on getting an electrician to setup, are there any standalone device which could just service the stated without that as we are not owners of the property?

     

     

  14. Hi all,

    Total newb here ready to pull the trigger on a solution to load shedding when it starts again...

    Here is my info...

    I don't really know how to calculate the amount of power required but I am on prepaid and the entire household uses between 10 an 20 KWH a day.

    I am not worried about cooking and keeping everything working and would just like to have the following items running during load shedding (up to 4 hours).

    • 55" OLED TV
    • Home Theater pc (Proliant microserver)
    • Be able to charge 2 laptops for work if they go flat
    • Wifi Router (Fibre)
    • A lamp
    • "optional gaming console (Ps4)

    That is my essentials to keep live during load shedding and working from home. I would like something somewhat portable and have batteries etc. included like the Mecer expert and that I can keep plugged in next to the TV Unit where all of the above items are using one single plug. Excuse my ignorance but I have research and all the technical jargon just confuses me.

    My budget is between 15k to 20k and I would like something reliable and that wont damage my appliances.

    From digging around on this forum I have had a look at the Mecer Axpert 3000VA but really am clueless.

    Please could you aid me with some advice for my requirements.

     

    Thank you all in advance...

    Darren

  15. 2 minutes ago, introverter said:

       

    At the risk of appearing condescending (definitely not intended).

    The basics:

    During a power outage you (may) need a battery that provides power to an inverter, the inverter converts the Direct Current (DC) electricity (like what is in a car battery, or AA battery) to Alternating Current (AC) electricity (like what normally comes out of the house wall plug - roughly 230Volt in South Africa) which will power the laptop/router.

    The battery capacity (often in Amp Hours or Ah) will be one factor that determines how long your backup power supply will last - it is sort of like a car's petrol tank (it will very much influence how far/how long you can drive).

    The inverter "size" (often indicated as KVA or W) will sort of determine how many things (or how big a total thing) you can connect at one time and give it power - it is sort of like the car's engine size (a 1 liter engine is not as "strong" as a 5 liter engine).

    How many things you connect at the same time will also influence how long the battery can provide power. Putting 14 people in a datsun Go will likely mean you use more petrol while you drive and empty the tank quicker. (the router is one person, the laptop another).

    Putting one sumo wrestler in the dasun Go will also use more petrol than when it is just the average (??) 70Kg person. If you connected an electric kettle (many electric kettles use about 2000W...)  to the inverter it could be a sumo wrestler that drains the petrol tank too quickly or the datsun might not even be strong enough to move the sumo wrestler, so you could need a bigger engined car (in stead of 1000W inverter you get a 3000W inverter).

    So you need to determine how big a load you need to power (how heavy is the router and laptop) for "size" of inverter and for how long you need to power it (size of tank) for battery capacity.

    The router power supply and laptop power supply will likely indicate somewhere on it what their Watt ratings are (I have an ancient Dell which indicates it is a 90W power supply). If you add up the total wattages of the router and laptop power supplies you will know how "big" inverter you need. For JUST a router and laptop a 3000VA (which is sort of the same as 3000W) inverter is like likely waaayyyy more than you will need - but there is in essence nothing wrong with connecting a small load to a big inverter.

    If you know the size of the total load that you need to power you can multiply it by time (in hours) to get an idea of how big the battery will need to be. Assume the router and laptop combined are 100W  and you use it 4 hours you will use 400 Wh. Then divide the W number by the battery voltage of the inverter system (it looks like the Voltons use 24V battery systems) to get the Ah needed  (400W/24V=16.67Ah) So to power the 100W load for 4 hours, using a 24 Volt battery system you will need at least a 16.67Ah battery . To be safe, now divide the Ah by 0.85 (this gives a bit extra breathing room because when converting DC to AC electricity some of it is wasted). 16.67Ah /0.85 = 19.6Ah. Last part that can now get the rabbit hole to completely diverge in a deserted forest where no one hears a tree fall  - it could help to know what type of battery is used in the inverter system because some batteries will last for a total shorter life time (the battery will "break" sooner) if you use more than 50% of their capacity at a time. In that case I would round up my 19.6 Ah to 20Ah and multiply by 2, which means I would get at least a 40Ah battery to power my 100W load for 4 hours with a 24V battery and not use more than 50% of it during that 4 hours..

    If you knew all of this, my apologies, then I jump ahead  - I unfortunately have no knowledge or experience of the Volton systems so have no idea about good/bad/quality/price etc.

    By the way, something that could be useful especially if you do not want to go overboard initially before you move, and if needing to externally power only the router - many routers   operate on DC (5V, 12V etc.) - you may be able to get away with only using some version of a power bank (without any inverter) to power the router and do your best to have the laptop battery charged when load shedding starts, and turn down screen brightness/use the power saving features when running the laptop on the built-in battery to make it last as long as possible.

     

    Thanks a lot, I will take the above into consideration.

  16. 7 hours ago, GreenFields said:

    3000VA is the instantaneous power output of the inverter, nothing directly to do with the level of battery storage available. Just for a modem and laptop you actually don't draw high power, probably somewhere around 100W in total (to be checked against manufacturer's power specs for both devices). One 100Ah deep cycle battery or similar should be roundabout enough.

    thank you for the assistance!

  17. Hi all,

    So it is not without going down various rabbit holes of research throughout today and feel no closer to a resolution than when i started...

    Hence why i have decided to plague you all with another dreaded newbie ask.

    I looking for something decent that can power my Fiber router and perhaps a laptop if required. That's it for now, I have battery powered lighting etc so this will just be to ensure I am able to continue working from home online.

    I am keen to buy into something larger like the Volton devices however am moving from JHB to CT in a month and would prefer to purchase that once I am settled.

    For the next 2 months i just wanna keep on working and not have to trek into the office simple as that.

    From my digging i found that something that can run for 4 hours will need to be at least 3000Va

    Thanks in advance for all the help!

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