Igubu

Also saw the " cannot parallel"  part - which seems very strange to me? Assuming each one has it's own BMS, not sure why parallel of 8x (4x series) of these are not possible? There is no intelligence between them, like many  lithium " gel replacement"  options, no can bus, but don't see how anything will prevent it to be connected that way? Will be glad if some clever person explains  
As long as your cable lengths from the positive/negative side of each string matches in length, and of course is thick enough to allow 400Ah (19.2kW! - not many small inverters allow that kind of current anyway) - you should be fine?
They look very similar to another battery sold on some sites a month ago - and I know of a few field installs where they seem to work very well. The other ones were listed as 180 as well - the new ones also 200 - Attached a picture for those interested  You can see the 4S3P packing. (4x Serial 3 Parallel) 

Are you happy with the trolley as such? Also are you CT based or elsewhere?
not sure if the s-200 has also moved to lifepo4 like the new am’s - if not i’d look for something that is… I could send you to somebody that manufactures these- but he’s CT based- might save you some cash.
also unsure if the mecer’s have perhaps changed to prismatic lifepo4 cells, maybe try and find out.
I’d wager all manufacturers are moving to it as the old pouch cells all fail after around 3 years…
 
Another option perhaps- look for somebody who has some 2nd hand ones and buy a couple on the cheap (around R1500 each)- stick 2x or even 4x together and at your modest 600W load they might be good for another few years.

Also saw the " cannot parallel"  part - which seems very strange to me? Assuming each one has it's own BMS, not sure why parallel of 8x (4x series) of these are not possible? There is no intelligence between them, like many  lithium " gel replacement"  options, no can bus, but don't see how anything will prevent it to be connected that way? Will be glad if some clever person explains  
As long as your cable lengths from the positive/negative side of each string matches in length, and of course is thick enough to allow 400Ah (19.2kW! - not many small inverters allow that kind of current anyway) - you should be fine?
They look very similar to another battery sold on some sites a month ago - and I know of a few field installs where they seem to work very well. The other ones were listed as 180 as well - the new ones also 200 - Attached a picture for those interested  You can see the 4S3P packing. (4x Serial 3 Parallel) 

Morning All,
I was actually onsite as well assisting with the firmware loads I received them from Growatt - but file names, versions and sizes matches what @SiliconKid supplied 100%. Tried on two sites where the Growatts were supplied by the same installer - and in both cases only firmware 1 loaded. I gave feedback to Growatt and will update if I receive a response. The 2nd firmware didn't error - it just never started - counted down on the "sending start"  from 999 to 0 - then starts again - nothing happens..
@Tsa - I'm battling to find the manual or link that refers to the CORRECT pin outs - The V2.0 Growatt manual (page 8 only shows the one side - IE - Pin1, Pin2 - not the crossed side  - but I clearly remember seeing this somewhere - maybe Growatt sent me the engineering schematics of the pin outs at some point - trying to find it again. Where did you find the correct pin outs?
Whats interesting is that I assume a correct BMS cable is not supplied in the box - seems some distributors throw a cable in the box, others not - so wondering if this is not the reason why people are struggling - incorrect cables mostly.
What also seems to be a challenge is different manual versions. Dyness Powerbox (lets say V1.0) shows the dip switches like the pictures earlier posted -  off/on/off/off for Growatt - but the latest powerbox manual (V2?)  makes a distinction. It says : "for Growatt uses off/on/off/off" - but then also "for Growatt SPF off/on/on/off" - added in a later revision.. confusing as hell.
Just glad people are finally having some success with it talking properly.
Both sites seem to show the "newer" FW:

Edit:  Found this is a Dyness manual:
Seems Pin out is 1 - > 2, 3 -> 1

 

@TimCam Fantastic to hear somebody doing it the correct way. Bus-Bars should really be part of any install - most installers dont do it - or if they do, completely undersize the copper in width and thickness.
Always find it amazing that it takes 1 internet search to see what size wiring for size of battery bank is needed - say 50mm for 200Amps - yet people insists on using 25mm - "because it works". Same applies to fuses and bank sizes...how many "standard"  160A DC fuses are used on battery banks of 200,400,600 Amps!? The exact same applies to Bus Bars (Buzzbars? there are so many different spellings!) - a small 10mm wide by 2mm thick is NOT sufficient....
And that age old argument - " A proper bar is another R1000 - and thick battery cables are "expensive"  - another R500 more!" .. after you have just spend R150-R250k on something that needs to last for years. When an electrician (a good one anyways) tells you you need an xyz breaker in your DB and it costs R1000 - nobody cares.. but when people install PV systems they choose the R150 cheap breaker...
Maybe take a picture of it if and share for others to see what we are talking about?
 

@TimCam Fantastic to hear somebody doing it the correct way. Bus-Bars should really be part of any install - most installers dont do it - or if they do, completely undersize the copper in width and thickness.
Always find it amazing that it takes 1 internet search to see what size wiring for size of battery bank is needed - say 50mm for 200Amps - yet people insists on using 25mm - "because it works". Same applies to fuses and bank sizes...how many "standard"  160A DC fuses are used on battery banks of 200,400,600 Amps!? The exact same applies to Bus Bars (Buzzbars? there are so many different spellings!) - a small 10mm wide by 2mm thick is NOT sufficient....
And that age old argument - " A proper bar is another R1000 - and thick battery cables are "expensive"  - another R500 more!" .. after you have just spend R150-R250k on something that needs to last for years. When an electrician (a good one anyways) tells you you need an xyz breaker in your DB and it costs R1000 - nobody cares.. but when people install PV systems they choose the R150 cheap breaker...
Maybe take a picture of it if and share for others to see what we are talking about?
 

@TimCam Fantastic to hear somebody doing it the correct way. Bus-Bars should really be part of any install - most installers dont do it - or if they do, completely undersize the copper in width and thickness.
Always find it amazing that it takes 1 internet search to see what size wiring for size of battery bank is needed - say 50mm for 200Amps - yet people insists on using 25mm - "because it works". Same applies to fuses and bank sizes...how many "standard"  160A DC fuses are used on battery banks of 200,400,600 Amps!? The exact same applies to Bus Bars (Buzzbars? there are so many different spellings!) - a small 10mm wide by 2mm thick is NOT sufficient....
And that age old argument - " A proper bar is another R1000 - and thick battery cables are "expensive"  - another R500 more!" .. after you have just spend R150-R250k on something that needs to last for years. When an electrician (a good one anyways) tells you you need an xyz breaker in your DB and it costs R1000 - nobody cares.. but when people install PV systems they choose the R150 cheap breaker...
Maybe take a picture of it if and share for others to see what we are talking about?
 

The issue has been described a few times- you have to drop utility charging to minimum (2A?) and the problem should go away.
It's an inherent design problem, unless you solder resistors on, changing Util charging to 2A is the only workaround that helps. It has nothing to do with panels, grounding etc.
It does make it almost unusable - as 2A charging is very low - but at least better than it tripping.
to

Thanks for the quick reply.
On my two hubble's, I've installed bus-bars with the capacity to build up to 10 batteries.
I have fused each battery and use 35mm cable to the bus-bar, and 50mm from the bus-bar to my SunSynk 8.8 kW machine.
One day I hope to be able to go off grid.
This is really killing me, I need it now.😂
 

Hi,
Basics first  please ignore if this seems trivial, but you newer know…
as always… a slightly longer explanation- I like to share :)
This might be easy- cables, or not easy- new kit…
Battery cable lengths for interconnects need to be the same length and thickness, and your end cables (+ batt1 and- batt2) to the dc fuse also the same, as well as your fuse to inverter cables. Also at least 35mm, ideally 50mm for 200A. Can you confirm? Also perhaps how they are physically connected, assuming good crimps etc- maybe a photo!
also which inverter and what settings? Might have mentioned earlier, sorry but I’m not following the thread closely..
If all of this checks out- then unfortunately another example of non intelligent bms limitation. I’ll explain:
There is always a difference between say first cell closest to charge terminal (can’t remember if it’s + or - side!) and the last cell furthest away. Just how electrons flow… Thats part of the function of the bms, to monitor individual cells within the battery and balance them per cell. Balance really means controlling charge to each cell individually. A “fancy” bms that supports series properly talks between all the bms’es and that way balances all of them to be the same. (Small diff if 100mV or so) It also talks to the inverter via CAN- and actually controls all the charging- so while cells are settling it might instruct a bit more charge here and there- eventually balancing perfect between all cells.
Using a lithium battery without this means it’s treated as normal lead acid battery, so basically the inverter charges it bulk to get it to “full” say 14.6V. Lithium cells also settle- similar in a way to old lead acids- so they are “overcharged” to say 3.6V per cell and they then settle to 3.4V as an example- differs per type of cells, but it’s controlled very finely per cell. With your setup the inverter just see’s a big 24V battery, and it controls and charges till whatever setting you set- say 24V (just a value to illustrate 100% full) and lets assume you have 4x cells per battery- so if they were perfectly balanced each cell V would eventually be 24/8 = 3V. Unfortunately you might very well have a couple at 3.2V, some even at 2.9V - many reasons for this - but the total is 24V- so inverter stops charging. Repeat this a few times = unbalanced! 
Another part of a bms is to report individual cell health- sometimes a cell is always under- showing a fault, but you wont know that with the basic bms. 
To get rid of this problem you need 2 things: A smart BMS with CAN interface, and an Inverter with CAN. No amount of external “balancing” will help.
Was discussed earlier- there are diy battery builders (I know of somebody in WCape) that will build you a new battery- using your cells, but then adding a new bms with CAN etc - but it’s really expensive, and of course your inverter needs to support CAN to get the most benefit, withou that you’ll get the balancing sorted at least (it will be an eigth cell single 24V battery, not 2x 12V in series anymore) but still the other negatives of at least 30% unusable capacity.
much better to sell them as individual 12V’s, get rid of the inverter if it’s a non CAN,  buy a newly made up 24V battery and inverter that supports CAN..
Hope it helps!
 

Amazing  definitely then an “advanced”’user   if you are looking for a can compatible bms- seplos in china has a 16s 100A and 200A unit… but unsure about single imports- last I heard you were looking at R4500 for the 100A … which also explains why proper batteries with CAN are a few grand more  you really do pay for a proper bms…
 
 

This is where lithium replacement batteries require more understanding..
without CAN you have to set them correctly- never equalise a lithium battery. So for axpert type inverters without comms, or these batteries without comms just a basic bms, you have to follow the manufacturers specs. There should be a bulk or float or both V value, then perhaps something called absorbtion and also equalisation. Float is max the manufacturer says what is termed as “full” bulk is sometimes a little more. Equal and absorb must be the same, sometimes these could be “bulk”, and any setting around de sulphate/equalise every x days” should be disabled or set to 0.
As an example on a custom 5kW 48V lithium and a sunsynk- the float for the specific battery and it’s bms and amount of cells are: 54V. Absorb and Equal both 57.6V, and days set to 0. 

The axperts name them differently-
and your values will be different- but it’s important to set them correct. 
 
Remember a difference of just 2V on the top For lithium (so 50V vs 52V) is almoat 50% capacity! Same applies to a float of 13.5V might be 100% and 12.5V 40%….
this is why it’s important to understand why an inverter with CAN, and a battery with CAN Is worth it- you loose at least 30% usable capacity without it- something to consider perhaps when a “replacement” costs  only 20% less …
 
 
 
 

Intention is not to offend - for me it's a hobby, and have just seen too many "friends & family" ripped off and not being explained to properly what they are getting. So yes it takes some energy, I like to waffle on about things I'm passionate about as you can see - but it's a public forum so "advice" is there to be given, and ignored of course.
 

Amazing  definitely then an “advanced”’user   if you are looking for a can compatible bms- seplos in china has a 16s 100A and 200A unit… but unsure about single imports- last I heard you were looking at R4500 for the 100A … which also explains why proper batteries with CAN are a few grand more  you really do pay for a proper bms…
 
 

Do you have CAN working on your bms? I’d be very surprised- but good luck with it.
It’s very tricky to get CAN working properly- as mentioned before if your bms has it- unfortunately doesn’t mean it is programmed and talking to an inverter- you do need the software and all programmable parameters of your cells (there are almost 100 programmable paramaters on some Of the bms models!)
They are notoriously easy to blow- and please please be careful- you are working with high currents - lethal. If you dont have experience or are qualified in electricity- you are playing with dangerous things. 
 
last bit of advice is for 300+ amp bank and single inverter you need the correct inline fuses - probably 400 amps- and at least 50MM battery cables- these are expensive. Thats part of the reason the 3 - 5kW lithium batteries are usually built as 100A- you can then use 35mm cables and 160A fuses- which are very common and affordable. Large high current banks are not recommended for home use- rather parallel smaller amp banks..
 

Unfortunately not:(
cant find much detail on that device, but have a feeling it’s a RS485-serial/usb converter. So might “talk” to your axpert, but the intelligence comes from the bms side- and doubt the said bms will have the same level of detail to feed and control the inverter.
There is no quick fix or easy way to fake “can/rs485” comms unfortunately. It is Very complicated to get right- the reason so much money is spent on certification for any specific brand of battery to be compatibly with the different inverter brands. The guys building batteries will tell you the same- it’s months and months of work/coding/testing etc
If you want to future proof- get rid of the axpert, Buy something decent like a 5 or 8kW sunsynk/deye (full hybrid inverter) - and start with a battery like the am-2 hubble or similar..
efficiencies of hybrids vs - lets be honest and call the axperts what they are : “cheap and nasty” - is a long other topic….  Of course this all costs money- but if you look at backup power as a requirement for the next couple of years, rather invest in the correct kit now that will last 5-10years, have 5 & 10 Y guarantees- for  30% more upfront - or go as cheap as you can and in 2 years have to replace it all again…
Whats that saying “goedkoop koop
Is duur koop” - thats why these forums exist I suppose- for free advice from users who's already done it all (a few times)
 
 
 

Unfortunately not:(
cant find much detail on that device, but have a feeling it’s a RS485-serial/usb converter. So might “talk” to your axpert, but the intelligence comes from the bms side- and doubt the said bms will have the same level of detail to feed and control the inverter.
There is no quick fix or easy way to fake “can/rs485” comms unfortunately. It is Very complicated to get right- the reason so much money is spent on certification for any specific brand of battery to be compatibly with the different inverter brands. The guys building batteries will tell you the same- it’s months and months of work/coding/testing etc
If you want to future proof- get rid of the axpert, Buy something decent like a 5 or 8kW sunsynk/deye (full hybrid inverter) - and start with a battery like the am-2 hubble or similar..
efficiencies of hybrids vs - lets be honest and call the axperts what they are : “cheap and nasty” - is a long other topic….  Of course this all costs money- but if you look at backup power as a requirement for the next couple of years, rather invest in the correct kit now that will last 5-10years, have 5 & 10 Y guarantees- for  30% more upfront - or go as cheap as you can and in 2 years have to replace it all again…
Whats that saying “goedkoop koop
Is duur koop” - thats why these forums exist I suppose- for free advice from users who's already done it all (a few times)
 
 
 

Unfortunately not:(
cant find much detail on that device, but have a feeling it’s a RS485-serial/usb converter. So might “talk” to your axpert, but the intelligence comes from the bms side- and doubt the said bms will have the same level of detail to feed and control the inverter.
There is no quick fix or easy way to fake “can/rs485” comms unfortunately. It is Very complicated to get right- the reason so much money is spent on certification for any specific brand of battery to be compatibly with the different inverter brands. The guys building batteries will tell you the same- it’s months and months of work/coding/testing etc
If you want to future proof- get rid of the axpert, Buy something decent like a 5 or 8kW sunsynk/deye (full hybrid inverter) - and start with a battery like the am-2 hubble or similar..
efficiencies of hybrids vs - lets be honest and call the axperts what they are : “cheap and nasty” - is a long other topic….  Of course this all costs money- but if you look at backup power as a requirement for the next couple of years, rather invest in the correct kit now that will last 5-10years, have 5 & 10 Y guarantees- for  30% more upfront - or go as cheap as you can and in 2 years have to replace it all again…
Whats that saying “goedkoop koop
Is duur koop” - thats why these forums exist I suppose- for free advice from users who's already done it all (a few times)
 
 
 

This is where lithium replacement batteries require more understanding..
without CAN you have to set them correctly- never equalise a lithium battery. So for axpert type inverters without comms, or these batteries without comms just a basic bms, you have to follow the manufacturers specs. There should be a bulk or float or both V value, then perhaps something called absorbtion and also equalisation. Float is max the manufacturer says what is termed as “full” bulk is sometimes a little more. Equal and absorb must be the same, sometimes these could be “bulk”, and any setting around de sulphate/equalise every x days” should be disabled or set to 0.
As an example on a custom 5kW 48V lithium and a sunsynk- the float for the specific battery and it’s bms and amount of cells are: 54V. Absorb and Equal both 57.6V, and days set to 0. 

The axperts name them differently-
and your values will be different- but it’s important to set them correct. 
 
Remember a difference of just 2V on the top For lithium (so 50V vs 52V) is almoat 50% capacity! Same applies to a float of 13.5V might be 100% and 12.5V 40%….
this is why it’s important to understand why an inverter with CAN, and a battery with CAN Is worth it- you loose at least 30% usable capacity without it- something to consider perhaps when a “replacement” costs  only 20% less …
 
 
 
 

Thanks! Was only using it to demonstrate prismatic cells

From the hubble spec sheet:
prismatic
I cannot say this enough: dont buy a battery based on capacity on paper, with lithium especially- there are many more components that decide if its something that will last or a cheapie… capacity/ volts not everything- you can build 8-cell or 16-cell batteries, both seem “similar” but the latter a lot more actual capacity..
 

Honestly it is worth (for those who
have not purchased yet) buying something like this rather than the slightly cheaper variants- they are also local in Jhb and Ctn - so support is at hand- I have seen some
hubble talk on the forum as well- unsure if they are resellers - I only know of a CT based installer/reseller, perhaps you can buy rrp from the direct (no idea)?
 

From the hubble spec sheet:
prismatic
I cannot say this enough: dont buy a battery based on capacity on paper, with lithium especially- there are many more components that decide if its something that will last or a cheapie… capacity/ volts not everything- you can build 8-cell or 16-cell batteries, both seem “similar” but the latter a lot more actual capacity..
 

Honestly it is worth (for those who
have not purchased yet) buying something like this rather than the slightly cheaper variants- they are also local in Jhb and Ctn - so support is at hand- I have seen some
hubble talk on the forum as well- unsure if they are resellers - I only know of a CT based installer/reseller, perhaps you can buy rrp from the direct (no idea)?
 

For those interested- here a picture of a newer generation of this: (not my pic so apologies quality)

Little bit of info some might find surprising: the Pylons also have pouch cells  afain…
I wouldnt mix pouch and prismatics..
perhaps reach out to Hubble and ask them about their s-100 version - what’s inside.. 
 

Tried to explain the advantages of proper CAN, etc a few times, but yet people continue to buy cheap lithium based purely on advertised capacity  in this instance they were bought already, so just giving some pointers.
I’d be very hesitant to stick an old car charger onto them- easy to damage (and the warranty will be void Im sure)- so dont think there is any need to top balance them- just follow the advice given previously around making sure each individual 12V pack are more or less the same V. They are brand new - and should be balanced already, different pack voltages are fine, the individual BMS will sort that out if they are relatively close to each other.
 

I wouldn't spend any more on AGM
Once these fail - look at a lithium option.
One thing not mentioned before (seems there's only negatives at this point with AGM) is mixing different aged AGMs is not recommended. So if 1 of your pack of 4 breaks 6 months from now  - it's replacing it with a single new one is not recommended - this is as far as I remember from all the "experts" a few years ago. Maybe 6 months is not accurate, but rather after a good number of cycles - don't know what exactly, but the internet should be able to advise. Lithium has no such issue - you can add an additional pack any time -as the electronics take care of any cell differences etc.