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Victron Quattro relay noise and AC motors


Slaaiblaar
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I have a 10kv Quattro, when I start small ac motor like hairdryer or pressure pump on coffee machine the relays start flapping and effect output voltage. Test bench installation. No earth, only connected to battery. 

Supplier tested inverter and says its my appliances. 

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I start my 2kW heater and 1.1kW pump for the Spa at the same time with no issues. So your setup seems to have something suspect. Are you using big enough wires to supply? Do you get any errors? Can you supply AC1 in with AC perhaps and test again? What are your battery voltage? Can you measure both battery volts and current while this happens? The Quattros are really really very robust.

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Is earth connected anywhere or just floating? You should have it connected to neutral somewhere, otherwise strange things like these can happen. Not to mention that this is a very dangerous setup...

An interesting observation - both these devices have diodes in them. In the hair dryer it is usually a DC motor connected through a heating coil and diode (to lower the voltage to around 24V and rectify it) as well as on some heat settings the heater is connected through a diode (horrible load for any inverter - can lead to magnetics saturating). The coffee machine - if it is an espresso machine with a vibratory pump - these have a nice coil in series with a diode.

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48 minutes ago, P1000 said:

Is earth connected anywhere or just floating? You should have it connected to neutral somewhere, otherwise strange things like these can happen. Not to mention that this is a very dangerous setup...

An interesting observation - both these devices have diodes in them. In the hair dryer it is usually a DC motor connected through a heating coil and diode (to lower the voltage to around 24V and rectify it) as well as on some heat settings the heater is connected through a diode (horrible load for any inverter - can lead to magnetics saturating). The coffee machine - if it is an espresso machine with a vibratory pump - these have a nice coil in series with a diode.

Why does this become a problem? 

Is it the use of only half of the sine wave? (So like a constant ON and OFF 50 times per second) or is their something else at play i do not understand?

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4 hours ago, Sarel said:

I start my 2kW heater and 1.1kW pump for the Spa at the same time with no issues. So your setup seems to have something suspect. Are you using big enough wires to supply? Do you get any errors? Can you supply AC1 in with AC perhaps and test again? What are your battery voltage? Can you measure both battery volts and current while this happens? The Quattros are really really very robust.

Hairdryer use 176w to 360w when this happen. System is configured for full offgrid, 95mm^ cable between battery and inverter. Battery voltage stay constant at 53,2v. No problem with other appliances. No errors reported by Victron equipment

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54 minutes ago, P1000 said:

Is earth connected anywhere or just floating? You should have it connected to neutral somewhere, otherwise strange things like these can happen. Not to mention that this is a very dangerous setup...

An interesting observation - both these devices have diodes in them. In the hair dryer it is usually a DC motor connected through a heating coil and diode (to lower the voltage to around 24V and rectify it) as well as on some heat settings the heater is connected through a diode (horrible load for any inverter - can lead to magnetics saturating). The coffee machine - if it is an espresso machine with a vibratory pump - these have a nice coil in series with a diode.

Ground relay ticked, Quattro connect ground to neutral when that is ticked, it happens without switching on heat 

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6 minutes ago, Basil Katakuzinos said:

Why does this become a problem? 

Is it the use of only half of the sine wave? (So like a constant ON and OFF 50 times per second) or is their something else at play i do not understand?

It affect the output voltage of the Quattro and does not sound healthy

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21 minutes ago, Slaaiblaar said:

It affect the output voltage of the Quattro and does not sound healthy

Sonething definetly doesnt seem right, my 5kva multiplus sounds fine with hair dryers, air fryers and everything inbetween. 

Quattro clicking sound - Victron Community (victronenergy.com) Maybe this helps you

does it sound similar to the unit linked above? If so i think its best to incist that your installer repair/replace the unit because it is most definetly not normal.

Edited by Basil Katakuzinos
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17 hours ago, Basil Katakuzinos said:

Why does this become a problem? 

Is it the use of only half of the sine wave? (So like a constant ON and OFF 50 times per second) or is their something else at play i do not understand?

Yes, if you only use half the sine wave a DC bias flux can build up in the transformer, leading to non-linearities and sometimes saturation. If your transformer saturates, the mosfets will see a load that looks a lot like a dead short. Luckily, the Victron will almost certainly compensate for this. I suspect it is one of the factors that kill the cheap Chinese pure sine battery inverters based on the EG8010 IC (eg https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001082042024.html).

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