Hi guys, 

I'm using City Power as my grid connection in joburg and want to know if they support pushing power into the grid from solar and being paid for it

12 hours ago, MakoShark said:

Hi guys, 

I'm using City Power as my grid connection in joburg and want to know if they support pushing power into the grid from solar and being paid for it

See
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2345-joburg-regulations-for-solar/
@pilotfish posted the regulations.

Would be interested to hear of anyone who's followed thru and any tips.

Seems somewhat complicated and AFAIK, you can only claim as much as you consume - "net-zero".

If CoJ/Citypower were interested, they would have streamlined, online, quick, single portal where all the information is available and applications can be processed and without some of the "net-zero" clauses - and even some incentives to do so.

Seems CoJ only play lip service to renewables and are not interested.

 

14 hours ago, system32 said:

See
https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2345-joburg-regulations-for-solar/
@pilotfish posted the regulations.

Would be interested to hear of anyone who's followed thru and any tips.

Seems somewhat complicated and AFAIK, you can only claim as much as you consume - "net-zero".

If CoJ/Citypower were interested, they would have streamlined, online, quick, single portal where all the information is available and applications can be processed and without some of the "net-zero" clauses - and even some incentives to do so.

Seems CoJ only play lip service to renewables and are not interested.

 

Thanks for this info, sounds like a complicated process and not worth the effort and fees

On 2021/12/11 at 5:29 AM, MakoShark said:

Hi guys, 

I'm using City Power as my grid connection in joburg and want to know if they support pushing power into the grid from solar and being paid for it

They do but
1) You have to sign up for a reseller's tariff - which has fixed monthly fees attached
2) You have to have a special meter installed at your expense
3) price they pay you per unit you export is significantly less than you pay them for a unit
4) You must be a net user (IE take more from the grid than you feed back in)

I looked at this a while back, and I couldn't see how it was worth my time.

19 minutes ago, Bobster said:

They do but
1) You have to sign up for a reseller's tariff - which has fixed monthly fees attached
2) You have to have a special meter installed at your expense
3) price they pay you per unit you export is significantly less than you pay them for a unit
4) You must be a net user (IE take more from the grid than you feed back in)

I looked at this a while back, and I couldn't see how it was worth my time.

Thanks for the details, yeah it seems like its really more hassle than its worth, what a shame because I have a lot of solar power going to waste (as im sure do many people around the country) which could be put to use on our strained Eskom grid

19 minutes ago, MakoShark said:

Thanks for the details, yeah it seems like its really more hassle than its worth, what a shame because I have a lot of solar power going to waste (as im sure do many people around the country) which could be put to use on our strained Eskom grid

City Power are making noises about encouraging homes to have solar systems, and about making greater use of green sources, so watch that space. They are being vague at this time.

If you have batteries, then your first use of excess PV should be to charge those. I would have lots of power to export - on clear days - if I weren't charging batteries. But without batteries you have no protection against load shedding.
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bobster said:

They do but
1) You have to sign up for a reseller's tariff - which has fixed monthly fees attached
2) You have to have a special meter installed at your expense
3) price they pay you per unit you export is significantly less than you pay them for a unit
4) You must be a net user (IE take more from the grid than you feed back in)

I looked at this a while back, and I couldn't see how it was worth my time.

I just checked. The amount they pay you per exported unit is 65.79 c per kw/h - I presume this is exclusive of VAT. 

But flat fees PM for the reseller's tariff are r170.09 service charge and R686.35 capacity charge. I'm on pre-paid, so I'd have to export (686.35 + 170.09)/0.6579 = 1301 kw/h just to break even. Before accounting for the cost of the 2-way meter.

If you're on post-paid then then you are already paying flat charges, just not as high, and the approximate break even would be R171/0.6579 = 259 units per month, but again that doesn't take into account the price of the meter (about 12K IIRC).

I still wouldn't win. My system is sized to meet my current usage, and I doubt I'd ever have 8+kw/h a day to sell back. 

IMO better to convert to pre-paid and set you system to not export.

 

9 minutes ago, Bobster said:

City Power are making noises about encouraging homes to have solar systems, and about making greater use of green sources, so watch that space. They are being vague at this time.

If you have batteries, then your first use of excess PV should be to charge those. I would have lots of power to export - on clear days - if I weren't charging batteries. But without batteries you have no protection against load shedding.

We been making noises about CoJ/Citypower's lack of interest on renewable for a few years now on this forum.
Some of these posts go back to 2018.

What I would like to see from CoJ/CityPower:
One-stop web portal with:

• Rules & Regulations
• Submitting Applications
• Streamlined transparent, responsive processes to submit & track applications

And

• Dropping the "net user" rule
• Encouraging/incentivising home battery storage to discourage using the grid as a battery

With the above - it would be a "win-win-win" situation

1. Plant owners will make a 2nd income
2. CoJ/CityPower would have access to cheap green electricity that they could sell to other residents
3. Help ZA reduction CO2 emissions and meet targets

After my batteries full, I have ~20kWh solar per day that I'm able to use.
If it was viable, I would have add an additional 32x400W PV panels my system to feed the grid and make a business of it, but alas CoJ is not interested.

3 minutes ago, system32 said:

We been making noises about CoJ/Citypower's lack of interest on renewable for a few years now on this forum.
Some of these posts go back to 2018.

What I would like to see from CoJ/CityPower:
One-stop web portal with:

• Rules & Regulations
• Submitting Applications
• Streamlined transparent, responsive processes to submit & track applications

And

• Dropping the "net user" rule
• Encouraging/incentivising home battery storage to discourage using the grid as a battery

With the above - it would be a "win-win-win" situation

1. Plant owners will make a 2nd income
2. CoJ/CityPower would have access to cheap green electricity that they could sell to other residents
3. Help ZA reduction CO2 emissions and meet targets

After my batteries full, I have ~20kWh solar per day that I'm able to use.
If it was viable, I would have add an additional 32x400W PV panels my system to feed the grid and make a business of it, but alas CoJ is not interested.

I used to think that COJ had been paying attention to South Australia where roof top solar installs were subsidised and the sell back tariff was very attractive. They ended up with a situation where they had more power than they could use on the grid in the middle of the day, which is a whole other set of problems. 

But there are counter examples
1) California has a very large base of installed roof top solar systems and has found a way of managing this
2) A friend of mine in Brussels has just got himself a grid-tie system, subsidised by provincial govenment, and he can sell back.

OK... both of those occur in a situation where grids are interconnected. States in the USA may sell electricity to each other. National grids in the EU are inter-connected and those with an excess may sell to those who are struggling to meet demand. If the time differences are sufficient then there is way of getting rid of your middle of the day excess:  When the sun is high in California the east coast is heading  into peak usage time.

 

19 minutes ago, Bobster said:

I just checked. The amount they pay you per exported unit is 65.79 c per kw/h - I presume this is exclusive of VAT. 

But flat fees PM for the reseller's tariff are r170.09 service charge and R686.35 capacity charge. I'm on pre-paid, so I'd have to export (686.35 + 170.09)/0.6579 = 1301 kw/h just to break even. Before accounting for the cost of the 2-way meter.

If you're on post-paid then then you are already paying flat charges, just not as high, and the approximate break even would be R171/0.6579 = 259 units per month, but again that doesn't take into account the price of the meter (about 12K IIRC).

I still wouldn't win. My system is sized to meet my current usage, and I doubt I'd ever have 8+kw/h a day to sell back. 

IMO better to convert to pre-paid and set you system to not export.

From what others have said, you have to be a "net user".
This is the killer for me.
With batteries you can drop your CoJ electricity consumption to near zero.
If we can't make money from the excess, what's the incentive?

2 minutes ago, Bobster said:

I used to think that COJ had been paying attention to South Australia where roof top solar installs were subsidised and the sell back tariff was very attractive. They ended up with a situation where they had more power than they could use on the grid in the middle of the day, which is a whole other set of problems. 

But there are counter examples
1) California has a very large base of installed roof top solar systems and has found a way of managing this
2) A friend of mine in Brussels has just got himself a grid-tie system, subsidised by provincial govenment, and he can sell back.

OK... both of those occur in a situation where grids are interconnected. States in the USA may sell electricity to each other. National grids in the EU are inter-connected and those with an excess may sell to those who are struggling to meet demand. If the time differences are sufficient then there is way of getting rid of your middle of the day excess:  When the sun is high in California the east coast is heading  into peak usage time.

There is no proof that CoJ/CityPower is paying attention to South Australia and any renewable options.

If they were, CoJ would have noticed the "Hornsdale Power Reserve" (Tesla Big Battery) to capture the cheap rooftop solar electricity.
CoJ would have also noticed the South Australia "Tesla Virtual Power Plant" where 50,000 homes with batteries and central control work together.
CoJ would have consulted and put out discussion papers / proposals.
CoJ would have regulations to encourage PV + Battery.

No I don't think CoJ has done any attention paying to roof top solar.
CoJ too busy letting piggies eat at fraud & corruption table fed by high electricity tariffs and high rates.

Here's my proof of the above assertion:

• https://www.enca.com/news/city-power-concerned-reports-corruption-nepotism
• https://mg.co.za/news/2020-06-11-allegations-of-corruption-at-city-power/
• https://www.politicsweb.co.za/politics/investigate-jobs-for-pals-scandal-at-city-power-in
• https://ewn.co.za/2021/09/03/city-power-ceo-mongezi-ntsokolo-suspended-over-corruption-claims
• etc

Anyone here on PowerForum in CoJ/CityPower grid feeding?

Any update on this topic in 2022?

Surely there haver been some changes to legistration around this? its just madness.