Posted January 6, 20223 yr Good day to the forum participants. There is a clone AXPERT 5kW 48V MPPT 120-450V. Installed without battery. Installed in an unheated room, but the temperature does not drop below 5 ° C. And after a month of operation, the inverter began to fall into error 02 (overheating). They began to conduct experiments with a service engineer ... during which they found out that the inverter "freezes", that is, the temperature sensor reacts to cold as overheating. An attempt to involve the manufacturer in solving the problem did not give results ... the Chinese asked to send a bunch of videos and measurements, after which their engineer said that he would schedule a test ... and disappeared. Can anyone come across such a problem? P. S .: I work in a small company that is engaged in the installation of solar power plants (among other things)
January 6, 20223 yr 7 hours ago, migel267 said: they found out that the inverter "freezes", that is, the temperature sensor reacts to cold as overheating. Goodness! I wonder how that one slipped through their no-doubt rigorous testing regime. Oh, wait... 🙄 It sounds like they installed the wrong kind of temperature sensor, i.e. an NTC where a PTC is needed or more likely vice versa. The Voltronic firmware has lookup tables for temperature sensor measurement. So assuming that they illegally copied the firmware, they need to use the exact same temperature sensor. There is an undocumented command, the Q1 command, that reports 4 temperature readings. That should at least narrow down which is the problem sensor (transformer, battery side heatsink, inverter side heatsink, and the Solar Charge Controller (some models). Once you have that, you could disable the problematic sensor(s) with a fixed resistor (somewhat risky), or fiddle with it/them until you get vaguely sensible readings. At least then you should have continued operation, even if it is at the expense of lowered over-temperature protection (assuming you can't get it perfect). This is the sort of thing that happens with clones. I think that they are the scourge of the planet. 7 hours ago, migel267 said: I work in a small company that is engaged in the installation of solar power plants... Forgive me being blunt, but perhaps you should therefore have been able to foresee the problems of clones? Granted, it's hard to tell sometimes whether you've bought a clone. Edited January 6, 20223 yr by Coulomb
January 10, 20223 yr Author On 06.01.2022 at 16:46, Coulomb said: Боже! Интересно, как этот проскользнул через их, без сомнения, строгий режим испытаний. О, подожди... 🙄 Похоже, они установили неправильный датчик температуры, т.е. NTC там, где нужен PTC, или, что более вероятно, наоборот. В прошивке Voltronic есть справочные таблицы для измерения датчика температуры. Итак, предполагая, что они незаконно скопировали прошивку, им нужно использовать точно такой же датчик температуры. Существует недокументированная команда, команда Q1 , которая сообщает 4 показания температуры. Это должно, по крайней мере, сузить область определения проблемного датчика (трансформатор, радиатор со стороны батареи, радиатор со стороны инвертора и контроллер заряда от солнечной батареи (некоторые модели). После этого вы можете отключить проблемный датчик (датчики) с постоянным резистором. (несколько рискованно), или возитесь с ним/ними, пока не получите смутно разумные показания.По крайней мере, тогда вы должны продолжать работу, даже если это за счет пониженной защиты от перегрева (при условии, что вы не можете сделать это идеально) . Это то, что происходит с клонами. Я считаю, что они - бич планеты. Простите за прямоту, но, может быть, вы должны были поэтому предвидеть проблемы клонов? Конечно, иногда трудно сказать , купили ли вы клон . tested, negotiated with the manufacturer ... their engineer promised to conduct tests and disappeared
January 23, 20232 yr Hi, i am also from Ukraine and my name is also Mike and i have exactly same problem With the same inverter (Axioma ismppt bf 5000) but for me this error happens when battery in the charge mode only and environment temperature drops under +10C. Fighting with this problem over 2 years and it looks like without firmware modifications it’s impossible to fix it cuz it looks like 02 error is not only about high temperature but about low as well. Never got this error in the summer. Btw inverter throws this error randomly , it might be once in two days or might be twice a day… and it also depends on amps using to charge battery: on 10 amps it not so often, on 20 amps it happens almost every time when battery trying to charge. (Have 4*200ah flooded batteries)
January 25, 20232 yr On 2023/01/24 at 7:17 AM, Migonium said: Btw inverter throws this error randomly , it might be once in two days or might be twice a day… That sounds like it's a component further along than the temperature sensor, like an op-amp or resistor. But if it's just the wrong temperature sensor, to get it working, I would consider using a resistor substitution wheel (no idea if you can get those in your country) and just try values until it complains, then back off a bit. Replace with a fixed resistor of that value. It's certainly not ideal, but in your circumstances, it might be a lot better than what you have now. Something like this:
January 26, 20232 yr Thaks for the response! That sounds like an idea (i have some variable resistors to try this hack), but where i can find that exact resistor which is giving high (or low) spikes? I mean that one which is responsible to measure mppt charger temperature? (On the board) Edited January 26, 20232 yr by Migonium
January 27, 20232 yr On 2023/01/26 at 10:00 PM, Migonium said: I mean that one which is responsible to measure mppt charger temperature? (On the board) The actual sensor will be screwed to a heat-sink, except for the one for the isolating transformer, which is placed just below the transformer (when installed normally). The one screwed to the heatsink will have flying leads to a 2-pin connector nearby. Once you see one, you can't miss them. Something like this: The actual sensor will be encased in the blob of epoxy. Edit: The transformer NTC (Negative Temperature Coefficient resistor) looks like a small tantalum capacitor: The detail may of course be a little different in your model. Edited January 27, 20232 yr by Coulomb
January 31, 20232 yr I’ve disassembled it and seen what’s inside. So there are 3 resistors on radiators looks exactly as yours and fourth near the transformer. Measured resistance of two of them: first one which is on the mppt controller is 37.8 kOhms and second one on the bottom right radiator is 29.8 kOhms in the same conditions (~+1C outside). Also measured that when they heated by the hand resistance drops so that means that they are correct NTC not PTC. But why so big difference in resistance? Is that normal? Maybe i can try to attach them vice versa to see if i’ll get a new error? In the meantime cleaned inverter from dust and assembled back, will wait for the answer.. thanks! (Btw measured disconnected from the board) Edited January 31, 20232 yr by Migonium
February 1, 20232 yr 11 hours ago, Migonium said: But why so big difference in resistance? That does seem too much difference. 11 hours ago, Migonium said: Maybe i can try to attach them vice versa to see if i’ll get a new error? No. There is only one "over-temperature" error, resulting from the highest measurement. So swapping will make no difference. If you can get a response to a Q1 command, you can see which sensor is out of spec. If you can get a 39k fixed resistor, I'd try replacing one sensor (the one reading the lowest resistance, which is interpreted as the highest temperature) with that to see what happens. Just to get things working; replace with a proper NTC if and when you can find one.
February 1, 20232 yr It looks similar by resistance output to this one which i can order locally https://arduino.ua/files/MF52A1.pdf +1C = 29~31 kOhms but first will try to send q1 command somehow. Currently i have solar assistant software on raspberry pi connected to the inverter but it doesn’t allow to send commands. Will try to do that from the laptop. Edited February 1, 20232 yr by Migonium
February 1, 20232 yr Btw how to send command? Is there some script to do that? I see that standard watchpower doesn’t have such option
February 2, 20232 yr 15 hours ago, Migonium said: Btw how to send command? Is there some script to do that? I see that standard watchpower doesn’t have such option You can try the software at http://multisibcontrol.net/ it has a console tab where commands can be sent to the inverter.
February 3, 20232 yr Thank you! That is exactly what I was looking for Edited February 3, 20232 yr by Migonium
February 3, 20232 yr Okay, that’s what I’m getting under significant load until i’ll get 02 error: Q1 (01 00 00 000 017 000 014 00 00 000 0050 0000 11 Q1 (01 00 02 000 017 000 014 00 00 000 0050 0000 11 Q1 (01 00 19 000 017 000 014 00 00 000 0090 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 10 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 09 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 05 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 05 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 03 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 04 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 05 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0100 0000 11 Q1 (01 00 15 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0099 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 03 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0098 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 017 000 013 00 00 000 0097 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0096 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0095 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0094 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0093 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0092 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0091 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0090 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0089 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0088 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0087 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0086 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0085 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0084 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0083 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0082 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0081 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0080 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0079 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0078 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 01 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0077 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0076 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 02 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0073 0000 11 Q1 (01 00 19 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0093 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 04 000 016 000 013 00 00 000 0103 0000 13 Q1 (01 00 04 000 016 000 012 00 00 000 0102 0000 13 and in this case it’s normal cuz i’m loading inverter up to 100% but the main issue that I’m getting this error without any load (200-300W) but when battery charging from utility or from the solar panels (more frequently on 20amps charge current, less on 10amps). Now I’ll continue to monitor that floating error and hopefully will understand why it happens. Current question is which temperature in the response refers to which NTC? I’ve found docs on communication protocol of this inverter but there is no any word about Q1 command, it looks like it’s really undocumented anywhere.
February 3, 20232 yr 58 minutes ago, Migonium said: Current question is which temperature in the response refers to which NTC? I’ve found docs on communication protocol of this inverter but there is no any word about Q1 command, it looks like it’s really undocumented anywhere. I'm a little surprised that you didn't find my unofficial documentation of it. It's changed a little since the PIP-4048MS days (5 kVA 4 kW Axpert MKS 1), but here is the link: https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=60229#p60229 It looks like a few of the fields have moved around. If you have a 450 V or 500 V max PV model, they my understanding is that you don't get a SCC temperature reading, it will always read 0000. So my guess is: (01 00 00 000 017 000 014 00 00 000 0050 0000 11 (01 SCC OK 00 Allow SCC on flag (likely not relevant to a high PV voltage model) 00 Charge average current (I see up to 19 A in some of your examples) 000 SCC temperature (will always be 0000 for high PV voltage models) 017 Inverter heatsink temperature 17°C 000 Battery heatsink temperature. It's strange that this is always zero. Did you unplug that sensor? 014 Transformer temperature 14°C. Sounds wonderful to me sweltering away tonight. ... Don't know about these other fields; if you give me your U1 firmware version I might be able to 1look it up if you really want. 11 Inverter charge status 11 (bulk stage). 10-13 are none, bulk, absorb, and float in that order.
February 3, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, Coulomb said: I'm a little surprised that you didn't find my unofficial documentation of it. It's changed a little since the PIP-4048MS days (5 kVA 4 kW Axpert MKS 1), but here is the link: https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=60229#p60229 It looks like a few of the fields have moved around. If you have a 450 V or 500 V max PV model, they my understanding is that you don't get a SCC temperature reading, it will always read 0000. So my guess is: (01 00 00 000 017 000 014 00 00 000 0050 0000 11 (01 SCC OK 00 Allow SCC on flag (likely not relevant to a high PV voltage model) 00 Charge average current (I see up to 19 A in some of your examples) 000 SCC temperature (will always be 0000 for high PV voltage models) 017 Inverter heatsink temperature 17°C 000 Battery heatsink temperature. It's strange that this is always zero. Did you unplug that sensor? 014 Transformer temperature 14°C. Sounds wonderful to me sweltering away tonight. ... Don't know about these other fields; if you give me your U1 firmware version I might be able to 1look it up if you really want. 11 Inverter charge status 11 (bulk stage). 10-13 are none, bulk, absorb, and float in that order. Hi, thanks for the reply! Here is the firmware version u1 31 02 and the rest of specs from the label. About the sensor: I haven’t disconnected anything. I’m probably don’t have it at all. I have 4*12v lead-acid batteries 200ah each. There wasn’t any slot in this inverter to connect any external sensor. If I understood you correctly… if you are talking about internal battery charging sensor then that might be a problem Edited February 3, 20232 yr by Migonium
February 3, 20232 yr 32 minutes ago, Coulomb said: 014 Transformer temperature 14°C. Sounds wonderful to me sweltering away tonight Yeah😆 and it’s inside the inverter only, +1C otside and some snow 0050 looks like mppt temperature, sometimes it gets above 100C under 4kW of load and looks like i am getting 02 error from there Edited February 3, 20232 yr by Migonium
February 3, 20232 yr 46 minutes ago, Migonium said: Here is the firmware version u1 31 02 and the rest of specs from the label. Sadly, 31.xx is not in my collection. It looks like an Axpert MKS II or clone thereof. The label looks legitimate, although "DESIGNED BY TAIWAN" seems a little off. But that part is likely up to the reseller, so it may be legitimate. I had a quick look in another MKS II firmware (version 71.86), and Q1 is completely different. So much for sticking to the documentation... oh, wait. 38 minutes ago, Migonium said: 0050 looks like mppt temperature, sometimes it gets above 100C under 4kW of load I'm guessing that it's actually the fan speed percentage, though I'll admit that 103% is a bit strange. That would explain the high value near 100% with a 4 kW load, especially if something else is going on (e.g. high PV charging current). I'd expect the temperature readings to be 3 digits. 40 minutes ago, Migonium said: +1C otside and some snow Ah, maybe that's not so wonderful ❄️🥶.
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