system32 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) @HubbleLithium According to the sales data the Hubble AM-2 is a 5.5kWh 51V 100Ah battery: Nominal Voltage V x Rated Capacity Ah = Wh 51V x 100Ah = 5100Wh or 5.1kWh Q1. What is the "5HR" mean in "Rated Capacity 5HR"? A. See http://support.rollsbattery.com/en/support/solutions/articles/216766-what-is-amp-hour-capacity- Ah is normally determined over 20 hours, unless otherwise specified. For AM-2, 100Ah / 5hr or 20A continuous for 5 hours - which compared to Lead Acid is very good. Lead Acid batteries suffer from "Peukert Effect". Lithium batteries suffer much, much less - See https://battlebornbatteries.com/peukert-effect/ Q2. Is the Hubble Lithium AM-2 a 5.1kWh battery or a 5.5kWh battery? Edited January 10, 2022 by system32 Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Also interested in this. I am getting 7kWh from 100% till 20% SOC. One brand new battery and the other around 3 weeks old. The one went in last week as there was an issue ( Cell Imbalance according to Hubble Technical ) Would be keen to see what the answer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 According to the guide from Hubble, you set it as 110Ah and not 100Ah battery. This would mean 5.5kW https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSlow Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, PowerUser said: According to the guide from Hubble, you set it as 110Ah and not 100Ah battery. This would mean 5.5kW https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html The same when you have two of them connected or does one double all the values then? MarcFe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, PowerUser said: According to the guide from Hubble, you set it as 110Ah and not 100Ah battery. This would mean 5.5kW https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html According to the SunSynk Installer Manual Section 5.10: "Battery capacity in (Ah) – For non-BMS-batteries the range allowed is 0-2000Ah, while for lithium-ion the inverter will user the capacity value of the BMS." This is a user input value (not read from BMS) I don't think this setting does anything if you have BMS connected battery. If you have Solar-Assistant connected via RS232 to Hubble AM-2 Battery #1, you can get the capacity from the BMS. Edited January 10, 2022 by system32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, system32 said: According to the SunSynk Installer Manual Section 5.10: "Battery capacity in (Ah) – For non-BMS-batteries the range allowed is 0-2000Ah, while for lithium-ion the inverter will user the capacity value of the BMS." If you have Solar-Assistant connected via RS232 to Hubble AM-2 Battery #1, you can get the capacity from the BMS. I know, the BMS will provide the value but the above screen indicates, it's 110Ah and not 100Ah battery. Edited January 10, 2022 by PowerUser system32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, MyproD said: Also interested in this. I am getting 7kWh from 100% till 20% SOC. One brand new battery and the other around 3 weeks old. The one went in last week as there was an issue ( Cell Imbalance according to Hubble Technical ) Would be keen to see what the answer is. My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh. I've logged a ticket with Hubble support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moffat Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 54 minutes ago, system32 said: My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh. I've logged a ticket with Hubble support. I was wanting to get Hubbles but given that I am outside of SA, this becomes a consideration, in cases like yours where the item may have to be returned to Manufacturer, more so across borders. The costs become considerable. Down the road, if you can, try and get as less a number of batteries as possible, I've heard on this forum and in my research, this generally helps with less parts having to experience pairing or uneven charge and discharge issues etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, system32 said: My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh. I've logged a ticket with Hubble support. Please let me know what the outcome is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 19 hours ago, system32 said: My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh. I've logged a ticket with Hubble support. What monitoring do you use to measure that? I'm very curious to see. Can you please post a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, PowerUser said: What monitoring do you use to measure that? I'm very curious to see. Can you please post a picture? I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery. https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database. I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above. Edited January 11, 2022 by system32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimCam Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, system32 said: I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery. https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database. I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above. Your batteries temperature is high. No way to cool the room? My AM2's run between 18C and 24C, and still show a SOH of 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 2022/01/11 at 5:24 PM, TimCam said: Your batteries temperature is high. No way to cool the room? My AM2's run between 18C and 24C, and still show a SOH of 100%. The batteries are in a shaded, well ventilated large basement garage. The garage is at Johannesburg indoor temperatures. The garage is too big to cool. The garage is used for my motor bike & bicycle. (no car) The temperature above is whilst charging. What's your temperature whilst peak charging? EDIT: SA seems to report the wrong temperatures compared to RIOT. Edited May 31, 2022 by system32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, system32 said: I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery. https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database. I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above. This doesn't look good. I took one battery in and they told me my SOH was at 73% but the inverter was reading it at 100%. Long shot here but have you tried to unplug your Can cable and let the inverter charge with voltages as opposed to the inverter reading the info from the BMS? They told me to do that to balance the cells and banks. Edited January 11, 2022 by MyproD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, MyproD said: This doesn't look good. I took one battery in and they told me my SOH was at 73% but the inverter was reading it at 100%. Long shot here but have you tried to unplug your Can cable and let the inverter charge with voltages as opposed to the inverter reading the info from the BMS? They told me to do that to balance the cells and banks. The SOH, cycles, temperature, etc above is extracted from each BMS in the batteries. The Master BMS in Pack #1 controls the charging and tells the SunSynk to stop. I have logged a call with Hubble, they've checked via RIOT and asked me to take the batteries to the service center for checking. Just waiting for the details. EDIT: @MyproDIs it just a matter of pulling the CAN cable, do I need to change any of the SunSynk settings? https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html Edited January 11, 2022 by system32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimCam Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, system32 said: The batteries are in a shaded, well ventilated large basement garage. The garage is at Johannesburg indoor temperatures. The garage is too big to cool. The garage is used for my motor bike & bicycle. (no car) The temperature above is whilst charging. What's your temperature whilst peak charging? Good looking install. I have no remote monitoring or data logging at all. Next time its charging I'll have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P1000 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 15 hours ago, system32 said: I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery. https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database. I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above. That is shocking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0012 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 On 2022/01/10 at 4:15 PM, system32 said: My monitoring shows my 4 x AM2 has dropped to ~14.5kWh. I've logged a ticket with Hubble support. My goodness me, that's hectic capacity fade!! And they are under 100 cycles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mier Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 16 hours ago, system32 said: I use Solar-Assistant + Solar-Assistant Bull/Hubble AM RS232 cable connected to the master Hubble AM-2 battery. https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am The battery information provided is quite good, but does not provide cell data See https://solar-assistant.io/help/dashboard/battery I've enable MQTT on Solar-Assistant and keep 1 minute snaps of the values in a PostgreSQL database. I use the PostgreSQL data Battery_Energy_Out kWh and SOC decrease from 19:00pm to 05:00am to determine bank capacity which matches bank Capacity above. Hi @system32 Thanks for this post and please keep us updated. I believe I have the same issue with my Hubble AM-2. I only have one pack installed, but this is what's being reported by the BMS: As you can see the CAPACITY has dropped from 100AH previously to only 53.7AH, which means a massive ~47% drop after only 68 cycles. I opened a ticket with Hubble in December (twice actually). The first time they responded that the inverter is not charging the battery properly (BS) and the second time they closed it without any response (I will pursue this further with them, but I was on vacation). My theory is that one of the cells are stuffed. Even at 100% SOC, there is a substantial difference between the highest and lowest cell voltage, which grows to 200mV as it discharges. I don't have the actual graphs anymore, but it "failed" something like this: 1) Reported SOC 100%, reported Capacity 100AH 2) Battery discharged to ~47% SOC and then went into alarm state and disconnected from inverter. 3) After restarting both battery and inverter, the battery started recharging from 0% SOC ! This is strange as it was at 47% when it alarmed. 4) It charged find until 53% SOC (which kinda makes sense because it was supposed charge 47% to 100%, not 0% to 53%, right) 5) After a short while, the BMS automatically altered the reported SOC to 100% and capacity to 53.7AH !! My hunch is that as it discharges the lowest cell reaches a cut-off low voltage while the other cells are still fine. In order to, in future, not hit this cut-off on the lowest cell, the BMS has now adjusted the capacity to 53.7AH, so now it is reporting 0% SOC when it's actually still 47%. system32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 13 hours ago, system32 said: The SOH, cycles, temperature, etc above is extracted from each BMS in the batteries. The Master BMS in Pack #1 controls the charging and tells the SunSynk to stop. I have logged a call with Hubble, they've checked via RIOT and asked me to take the batteries to the service center for checking. Just waiting for the details. EDIT: @MyproDIs it just a matter of pulling the CAN cable, do I need to change any of the SunSynk settings? https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in. Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it. From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. system32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system32 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, MyproD said: That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in. Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it. From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. That's similar calculations to what I did: 4 x 5.5kWh = 22kWh of capacity. I've set 80% DOD and 90% Shutdown. 80% x 22kWh = 17.6kWh for nightly use. Never gone below 20% SOC as inverter switches to grid. Unfortunately not getting my expected 17.6kWh. 1 hour ago, MyproD said: That is correct. Just pull the cable and make sure its set to 53.6v to charge. ( I think ) It needs to be at 100% for a while though for the BMS Balancer to kick in. Looks like there are a few of us having some Issues with these batteries. My Solar Assistant will be arriving today and I will monitor it. From what I can gather, I am getting just under 7kWh from two batteries. They are advertised at 5.5kWh batteries so 11kWh total with 80% usage. factor in 10% for conversion I should be getting just under 8kWh. The one battery is not even a week old. The other is a month and bought from Power-Forum Store. This is the one I took in last week Thursday. I use the Bull/Hubble AM RS232 battery cable https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am Edited January 12, 2022 by system32 Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 @HubbleLithium Do you have an idea of what we should be getting on these units. As you can see, the above does not seem right. @Energy-Jason Sorry, I don't want to bring you into this unnecessarily but you might have a direct line to Hubble. Could you, if possible, get some clarity on what we should be getting on these units because from what I can see, many are underperforming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Energy-Jason Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, MyproD said: @HubbleLithium Do you have an idea of what we should be getting on these units. As you can see, the above does not seem right. @Energy-Jason Sorry, I don't want to bring you into this unnecessarily but you might have a direct line to Hubble. Could you, if possible, get some clarity on what we should be getting on these units because from what I can see, many are underperforming. Not a problem. I will ask Hubble to see this thread asap. Doing that now. Sincerely Jay Mier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyproD Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Thank you so much! It might be a simple thing that we are missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mier Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 This is what concerns me as well: At 84% SoC, there is already a >200mV difference to the lowest cell. It appears as though the BMS determines and reports the overall capacity according to the worst performing cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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