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Hubble Lithium Battery AM-2 5.5kWh


system32
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That is the way I would understand it too. That's why my first battery went in.

They told me there was probably an imbalance in the cells and the BMS could not balance them.

So they did a full discharge and recharge to bring the SOH back to 100% from the 73%. The inverter read it as 100% on my side though. 

Its a pity we cannot see each individual cells voltages. 

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37 minutes ago, MyproD said:

That is the way I would understand it too. That's why my first battery went in.

They told me there was probably an imbalance in the cells and the BMS could not balance them.

So they did a full discharge and recharge to bring the SOH back to 100% from the 73%. The inverter read it as 100% on my side though. 

Its a pity we cannot see each individual cells voltages. 

Did the full discharge/charge fix the SOH reading and capacity back to 100Ah/5.5kWh?

Edited by system32
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26 minutes ago, system32 said:

Did the full discharge/charge fix the SOH reading and capacity back to 100Ah/5.5kWh?

According to them yes. 

I cannot read the SOH though only the SOC. 

It did perform better though. Instead of getting 2.4kWh out the battery it charged to around 3.2kWh

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I'm going to do a full discharge now and see what the effect is.

I suspect the BMS calculates the capacity when the battery charges from 0% to 100% by measuring the total charge accepted during this cycle. If this is the case, there should be a change to the capacity reported (either higher, or possibly lower still). It also means that one won't be able to trust the reported capacity, as it may not reflect the true point at which the battery is going to cut off at the bottom.

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Just as suspected:

Seconds before the BMS shut the battery off:

image.png.7d72b6dfedb97157fe4bf131c9f06404.png

 

Now (Inverter charging battery):

image.png.2ebd08ebf30c044acf90e41f75ea294d.png

 

Once charged, I will check the reported capacity, but I suspect it would've lost another 24%

 

 

 

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Thank you @Energy-Jason for bringing this thread to our attention.

To answer some of the queries on the AM-2s capacity; the AM-2 battery is a  51V, 5.5Kw and usable 100Ah with 5 of those Kw being usable, as described in the spec sheet. We reserve 10%, so we don't charge the cells to full capacity to remove the risk of dendrite formations. Dendrite formation happens when consistently charging to 100% and greatly reduces your battery life. It is not viable to get the last 10% of the battery capacity then the battery life span will be reduced by ~50-70%. That 0.5 unusable will not take away from the 100Ah capacity. The cell capacity we use well exceeds 100Ah. Battery management systems have been installed in all our batteries to ensure we do not exceed the voltage set as inverters are designed to pull maximum capacity always.

Clients that are having any issues with State of Health are encouraged to contact us, either via our support channel or telephonically, so that our technical department can assist in an evaluation of your product. If there is a fault with the battery we are more than happy to swap it out or repair at either our Cape Town, Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth or Durban repair facilities.

Unfortunately we cannot go into a greater depth of response on this platform, as we need to monitor and track technical support conversations in order for us to provide comprehensive support to our clients. 

For all technical support queries please email the Support Department via [email protected] 

Please ensure that the following details are included in your email:

1. Inverter make & model
2. Model & number of connected batteries
3. Are your batteries in Series or Parallel?
4. A brief description of your system issues
5. If possible; images of your power system
 

- Hubble Technical Department

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@system32 Sorry, I did not mean to hijack this thread at all.

Some interesting info since solar assistant has been up for 24 hours.

Originally Total AH on Solar Assistant read 190Ah as my first pic above. 

The second grab was after it was charged up from solar today. I Hubble Support to question the loss of capacity and was told I must bring them in.

However, here is another interesting bit of data.

Solar Assistant now reads 184Ah and its added another cycle from when the battery dropped to 89% earlier when the washing machine ran.

IMG_0907.thumb.PNG.d6bca41a99c198d4555d61f350f556e3.PNG

Battery SOC.png

Solarman SOC.png

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Just my 2 cents worth.
I have had my AM2 since August last year and had no apparent issue with this battery, except that the Inverter reflected Voltage values are always a bit more than what the BMS values are.
Maybe those that have deteriorating battery performance should start to compare batch/serial numbers. Perhaps it is a certain batch? 
Also one would like to know what is a defined cycle as reported by the BMS. My cycle count seems reasonable, but I am still trying to figure out what logic is being applied, i.e. how much discharge or charge is counted as a cycle. Does it only count if the battery is recharged to 100% ?  Would a charge from 50% to 70% be a cycle?

 

Hubble 1.PNG

Hubble3.PNG

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21 hours ago, MyproD said:

Solar Assistant now reads 184Ah and its added another cycle from when the battery dropped to 89% earlier when the washing machine ran.

Wow quite a drop.  Maybe a bad cell?

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1 minute ago, Gnome said:

Wow quite a drop.  Maybe a bad cell?

@GnomeI wonder how many batteries are out there with bad cells. I've been monitoring mine and there is most definitely one cell that does not take the same charge as the others.

I have to say my battery is of different make

The OEM told me to bring the battery for them to balance the cells.

Eventually I have to do it as sometimes my battery does not reach 100% SOC the battery is only 6 months old, and always running within the recommended parameters

Check this dashboard of my battery cells. the peak is when it reached full SOC.

image.thumb.png.546794f91578e03eb8e6c94bfe9fd745.png 

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2 hours ago, zsde said:

Also one would like to know what is a defined cycle as reported by the BMS. My cycle count seems reasonable, but I am still trying to figure out what logic is being applied, i.e. how much discharge or charge is counted as a cycle. Does it only count if the battery is recharged to 100% ?  Would a charge from 50% to 70% be a cycle?

I don't know about the Hubble, but the Pylons use Equivalent Full Cycle as a cycle.  That mean that for a 74Ah battery like the US3000 the cycle count is incremented by one for every 74Ah of discharge.

This is clearly the most conservative and most consumer friendly way of calculating it.  Whether Hubble uses this I do not know.  I suspect that they do - anything else would be arbitrary.

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2 hours ago, zsde said:

Just my 2 cents worth.
I have had my AM2 since August last year and had no apparent issue with this battery, except that the Inverter reflected Voltage values are always a bit more than what the BMS values are.
Maybe those that have deteriorating battery performance should start to compare batch/serial numbers. Perhaps it is a certain batch? 
Also one would like to know what is a defined cycle as reported by the BMS. My cycle count seems reasonable, but I am still trying to figure out what logic is being applied, i.e. how much discharge or charge is counted as a cycle. Does it only count if the battery is recharged to 100% ?  Would a charge from 50% to 70% be a cycle?

 

Hubble 1.PNG

Hubble3.PNG

Nice to see your battery showing 110Ah Capacity on Solar-Assistant and after 148 "cycles".
This is what I expected.
For me the cycle count is ~1.3x higher than days.
110Ah is what I expected to give the 5.5kWh.
By AM-2 initially showed 110Ah, but lost capacity over time.

I charge to 100% using Solar during the day and down to 20% overnight.
Q. What is your charge/discharge limits?
 

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12 minutes ago, system32 said:

Nice to see your battery showing 110Ah Capacity on Solar-Assistant and after 148 "cycles".
This is what I expected.
For me the cycle count is ~1.3x higher than days.
110Ah is what I expected to give the 5.5kWh.
By AM-2 initially showed 110Ah, but lost capacity over time.

I charge to 100% using Solar during the day and down to 20% overnight.
Q. What is your charge/discharge limits?
 

As said the cycle count is a mystery. @Calvin at least has one definition for the Pylon, thank you. There should be an industry standard in my opinion.
My charge is to 100% on Solar and that happens sometimes twice or three times during the day because the Growatt Inverter permanently uses Battery power, meaning as soon as it hits 100% it starts discharging at between 42 to 60W until it hits 94% SOC and then starts charging again. Have no definitive answer why it does it but @Antonio de Sa already mentioned that it may just be how Growatt designed the Inverter.
I have set my shut off to 10% SOC. But ever since I had this I have never been below 25% SOC and my average is 30 to 40% SOC before Solar recharge starts.
I can only suggest all those that have lost capacity that they post their serial/batch numbers. 

Edited by zsde
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I will monitor this evening by only discharging from 00.00 tonight and see what gets discharged in kWh

I took out the Can cable and set the voltages with a shutdown of 45.00 Volts.

This is how you set that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQPtwkWgpEQ

Percentages didn't show quite right but the bank took 9.60 kWh of charge today.

This evening I will set it to 46 Volts. Seems to be the setting for 20% according to their chart. 

 

DOD Chart.jpg

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On 2022/01/14 at 3:40 PM, zsde said:

Just my 2 cents worth.
I have had my AM2 since August last year and had no apparent issue with this battery, except that the Inverter reflected Voltage values are always a bit more than what the BMS values are.
Maybe those that have deteriorating battery performance should start to compare batch/serial numbers. Perhaps it is a certain batch? 
Also one would like to know what is a defined cycle as reported by the BMS. My cycle count seems reasonable, but I am still trying to figure out what logic is being applied, i.e. how much discharge or charge is counted as a cycle. Does it only count if the battery is recharged to 100% ?  Would a charge from 50% to 70% be a cycle?

 

Hubble 1.PNG

Hubble3.PNG

Hi there. I love solar assistant! Its my go to app. May I ask how you got all that battery info? I am also running a sunsynk with a AM2. I would love to see mine as well. Thanks in advanced.

Jay

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16 minutes ago, Energy-Jason said:

Hi there. I love solar assistant! Its my go to app. May I ask how you got all that battery info? I am also running a sunsynk with a AM2. I would love to see mine as well. Thanks in advanced.

Jay

Use the "Bull/Hubble AM RS232 Battery Cable" https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/hubble_am

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So, I'm busy cycling my battery again and this is a bit weird, or maybe I don't understand something.

On the left is today (now) and on the right is from Wednesday last week. At lower SoC %, the voltage is considerably higher today. How is that possible ?

image.png.e1f6d8fbd8474279d3903b3171e1d964.png

Edited by Mier
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Which inverter do you have? 

Do yourself a favour and set up the parameters manually and unplug your CAN cable. Then let it run for 24-48 hours and measure the kWh hours used and the kWh charged. 

I am getting huge discrepancies with what the inverter/solar assistant is telling me vs what's happening.  

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I have an Infinisolar 3k+ inverter which doesn't  support CAN, so my Battery/Inverter can't be linked.

In the beginning I could easily run my house for 10hours plus on my base load of ~400-500w, but now only ~5.5 Hrs.

I think the SOC reported by the BMS is a calculated value and not a measured value. If so, you can't really trust it. Anyway, I'm waiting for Hubble support to come back to me as there is clearly an issue. I told them I want to bring the battery in for them to test it properly, I'm not going to buy a cloudlink just for this.

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