MarcFe Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Hi everyone, We've been running our house on a Sunsynk 5.5kW inverter – in combination with solar panels (~5kW) and one Hubble AM2 (~110Ah) battery for about three months now. I have been watching the battery data over time on the SolarAssistant dashboard, and always found it a bit odd that the "capacity" there was recently shown as 48.8Ah (see screen grab below). I didn't bother to find out more about it, though, as the system was doing all we needed it to do – despite the fact that I had a feeling that the battery is emptying a bit quickly when the sun is down... Today, we installed a second, new Hubble AM2 battery, the same model like the one we had. When I now check the dashboard, I do still think it's a bit weird – one battery is showing the full 100.0Ah, the other is still lower, with 48.8Ah: For the other stats on the battery, things seem to look alright, see: And these are my battery settings on the Sunsynk inverter: And comparing how long the battery lasts once the sun is down, there seems to be quite a drop from what it did in January (first screen grab) this year, when the system was installed, to what it does now (one evening this week, second screen grab). We run the battery (only, I know) down to 80% SoC, to cater for load shedding –– and this is how long it keeps the house going without grid: -> No grid used (house on battery power until SoC == 80%) in January, between 18:44 and ~21:10. The grid line above the yellow line on the left is 1kW, only one Hubble AM2 110Ah in use -> No grid used (battery power until SoC == 80%) in March 2022, between 17:35 and ~19:35. The grid line above the yellow line on the left is 1kW, only one Hubble AM2 110Ah in use And here, check now the first evening after sunset. Both batteries started at 100%, and now already have 5.5% difference in SoC: My questions now are: Are these settings okay? Did I have to double the Ah valur in the inverter settings, as I did, and give it 220Ah in total? Plus: Do I need to be concerned about the battery with capacity 48.8Ah? It should in fact also have 100/110Ah capacity and is only three months old, why I'm not sure if something is wrong with the battery – or if this is just an odd reading of SolarAssistant (which I personally don't think it is). Wondering if that‘d be a warranty case… Thanks a lot, Marc Edited March 30, 2022 by MarcFe Paraphrasing Quote
mzezman Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 Perhaps could be a warranty case... or a simple BMS not balancing situation. Does your SA have 2 seperate cables (one going to each battery)? What SOC were the batteries when they were added to the bank? I'd contact Hubble Yellow Measure 1 Quote
MarcFe Posted March 30, 2022 Author Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, mzezman said: Perhaps could be a warranty case... or a simple BMS not balancing situation. Does your SA have 2 seperate cables (one going to each battery)? What SOC were the batteries when they were added to the bank? I'd contact Hubble Hi @mzezman, Thanks for your reply. No, SA only gets the master battery by cable. The batteries are then chained, with DIP on 1-0-0-0 for master and 0-1-0-0 for slave. The older battery may have been at about 60% when the second/new battery was added to the pack today. They then both charged up to 100%. The new battery was lower than that I reckon. I‘d love this to be a BMS or software issue — so is there a good way to reset/restart the BMS, or would turning batteries on and off help? Or to find out if the issue is just about balancing loads in the BMS? I‘ll check this with the installer and guess that they‘d take this to Hubble for me. Just the fact that the older battery on its own already had shown only <50% capacity on both SOLARMAN and SA made me wonder if there is something wrong with it. Thank you, Marc Edited March 30, 2022 by MarcFe mzezman 1 Quote
TimCam Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 On the side of the battery is a sticker with the settings that should be used. My batteries are set as below, and are still in good condition, after almost a year. Maybe try these settings, and don't discharge your batteries for 3 days, and see if the older one recovers. If not speak to Hubble. Float V :- 52.6V Absorption V :- 53.6V Equalization V :- 53.5V Quote
MarcFe Posted March 30, 2022 Author Posted March 30, 2022 Hi @TimCam, Thanks for this. Will go through the settings and adjust to what you have set there. When you say don’t discharge for three days, as in, keep them at 100% and grid-charged for three days? Marc mzezman 1 Quote
TimCam Posted March 30, 2022 Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) @MarcFe Yes, in "System Mode" make sure "Use Timer is not ticked, so that the batteries do not discharge overnight. The inverter and batteries will communicate over the next few days, and hopefully all cells in both batteries will fully charge and equalize, with float periods for the batteries to "rest". You should notice the batteries now and again supplying small amounts of power to the inverter (30W - 70W), even with mains available. Also expect to see the batteries charge from mains or solar once or twice every 24 to 48 hours as it fully charges and equalizes. (Hopefully you don't have load-shedding or mains failures for the next few days. ) Lets hope you're oldest battery is restored to it's former glory. Edited March 30, 2022 by TimCam MarcFe 1 Quote
MarcFe Posted March 31, 2022 Author Posted March 31, 2022 8 hours ago, TimCam said: @MarcFe Yes, in "System Mode" make sure "Use Timer is not ticked, so that the batteries do not discharge overnight. The inverter and batteries will communicate over the next few days, and hopefully all cells in both batteries will fully charge and equalize, with float periods for the batteries to "rest". You should notice the batteries now and again supplying small amounts of power to the inverter (30W - 70W), even with mains available. Also expect to see the batteries charge from mains or solar once or twice every 24 to 48 hours as it fully charges and equalizes. (Hopefully you don't have load-shedding or mains failures for the next few days. ) Lets hope you're oldest battery is restored to it's former glory. Hi @TimCam, Thanks, I followed your instructions –– and turned off timer mode: So now the battery is on 100%, always, will keep it up for three days and see if anything happens. So far, the capacity of the older battery has not changed, which I guess was to be expected ↑ Screen grab of SolarAssistant, taken on 31 March 2022, 08:52am. Battery voltage settings on inverter, also as instructed, are now: Quote Float V :- 52.6V Absorption V :- 53.6V Equalization V :- 53.5V Fingers crossed! Marc Quote
system32 Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 @MarcFe For more info on similar issues see https://powerforum.co.za/topic/11206-hubble-lithium-battery-am-2-55kwh/ Quote
TimCam Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 Ok, lets see if there is any change after 3 or so days. I see the Cell voltage of the old battery is still higher than the new one. Lets see after the 3 days, and then after one discharge. Quote
Yellow Measure Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 Clearly the batteries were at different SOC when installed, which means that they were not balanced. There is a process for this, it involves setting specific AGM voltage settings, running both batteries to 0% SoC and then charging them full again. Log a ticket with Hubble support, they will give the procedure for you. It's a pity that you don't have a Cloudlink, it allows some BMS overrides and Hubble can also use it to log in to the batteries, monitor and make adjustments. I am rather impressed with my recent Hubble / Cloudlink install at a family member's place 1000kms from me, and the capabilities of the Cloudlink, it's actually very insightful and powerful. Jim Bredenkamp and MarcFe 1 1 Quote
MarcFe Posted April 1, 2022 Author Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said: Clearly the batteries were at different SOC when installed, which means that they were not balanced. There is a process for this, it involves setting specific AGM voltage settings, running both batteries to 0% SoC and then charging them full again. Log a ticket with Hubble support, they will give the procedure for you. It's a pity that you don't have a Cloudlink, it allows some BMS overrides and Hubble can also use it to log in to the batteries, monitor and make adjustments. I am rather impressed with my recent Hubble / Cloudlink install at a family member's place 1000kms from me, and the capabilities of the Cloudlink, it's actually very insightful and powerful. Hi @YellowTapemeasure, Thanks for your input. Interesting, I logged the issue with Hubble online but haven’t heard back from them, yet. On Monday next week, given the problem persists, our installer will come here to test both batteries. To be honest, I don't really know how much they know about the topic, so I'm not fully convinced they will help me sort this out... Regarding Cloudlink… Would you recommend installing this with my Sunsynk 5kW / 2x Hubble AM2 batteries? They both say RIOT ready. I‘d be keen to get Cloudlink, if it gives me more control and insights. How is your overall experience with it? As far as my research goes, the current Cloudlink solution doesn't yet work with the 5kW Sunsynk inverters, but only with the 8kW versions... And if I'd buy it anyway – where would you recommend me to buy it from? Thanks, Marc Edited April 1, 2022 by MarcFe Quote
Yellow Measure Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 1 hour ago, MarcFe said: Hi @YellowTapemeasure, Thanks for your input. Interesting, I logged the issue with Hubble online but haven’t heard back from them, yet. On Monday next week, given the problem persists, our installer will come here to test both batteries. To be honest, I don't really know how much they know about the topic, so I'm not fully convinced they will help me sort this out... Regarding Cloudlink… Would you recommend installing this with my Sunsynk 5kW / 2x Hubble AM2 batteries? They both say RIOT ready. I‘d be keen to get Cloudlink, if it gives me more control and insights. How is your overall experience with it? As far as my research goes, the current Cloudlink solution doesn't yet work with the 5kW Sunsynk inverters, but only with the 8kW versions... And if I'd buy it anyway – where would you recommend me to buy it from? Thanks, Marc My overall experience with the Cloudlink is great, and to me it's worth the cost due to the remote control and Hubble remote support. I have 3x Am-2s connected to my 5K Sunsynk. I did my install in stages, and will complete it in two weeks' time. At the moment the Sunsynk talks CAN directly to the master battery, not via the Cloudlink, and the RS-485 cable from Cloudlink to Sunsynk is also not connected yet. This was due to the installation being a medical emergency, a family member needed oxygen which does not work when loadshedding. The only cable connected from Cloudlink to the master AM-2 is the serial cable, and already I can see some parts of the dashboard being populated, but I can also remotely view and monitor BMS values for all 3 batteries. In 2 weeks' time I will go there again and install the CAN cable correctly, also the RS-485 cable, which will allow additional monitoring and reporting on the Sunsynk too (5K is in beta). There is an interesting roadmap for the Cloudlink, with some home automation integrations in the pipeline. It's well worth the money, if only for the remote expert support from Hubble. I got mine from The Powerforumstore. Quote
MarcFe Posted April 1, 2022 Author Posted April 1, 2022 12 hours ago, TimCam said: Ok, lets see if there is any change after 3 or so days. I see the Cell voltage of the old battery is still higher than the new one. Lets see after the 3 days, and then after one discharge. @TimCam, Update after one day, things still look about the same to me: Quote
MarcFe Posted April 2, 2022 Author Posted April 2, 2022 Update on 2 April, 06:54am – from SolarAssistant: Quote
P1000 Posted April 2, 2022 Posted April 2, 2022 2 hours ago, MarcFe said: Update on 2 April, 06:54am – from SolarAssistant: Your cycle count has remained the same throughout all your updates. I think that after changing to the AGM voltage settings, you have to at least do one cycle where you drain the batteries and recharge them. Quote
MarcFe Posted April 2, 2022 Author Posted April 2, 2022 2 hours ago, P1000 said: Your cycle count has remained the same throughout all your updates. I think that after changing to the AGM voltage settings, you have to at least do one cycle where you drain the batteries and recharge them. Hi @P1000, Thanks for your input. So when I changed the voltage settings, I left it at Lithium, and didn’t select AGM on the Sunsynk inverter. Should I have done that? And yes good point — might try to rinse the battery down before letting it float at full charge again Marc Quote
TimCam Posted April 2, 2022 Posted April 2, 2022 I had one battery a little while before the newer one. What I did before connecting the new one, was fully charge the old one, then switch it off, and disconnect the fuse and CAN cable to the inverter. I then set up the new battery as "master" (DIP SW 1), and connected it to the inverter through it's fuse, and the CAN cable. I then let it fully charge, and switched it off. Then I set the old battery to slave, connected the interconnect data cable between batteries, and connected both batteries through there fuses to the inverter, and switched on the batteries. They were both at 100% SOC, and are still working in SYNC. If your battery doesn't come right, try what @P1000 and @YellowTapemeasure suggest too. I would try it with just the one under-performing older battery connected. Quote
MarcFe Posted April 7, 2022 Author Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) Hi everyone, Thanks again for all the replies. TL;DR: The issue was resolved by updating the firmware on the older battery. The firmware it had loaded made the battery think that it only holds 48.3Ah instead of 100Ah. Now it's working perfectly, and SoH is still at 100% (also showed as 48.3%, for some reason). A Hubble technician and the battery person from our installer came here earlier this week and checked out the issue with the battery described in this post. As a first step, they updated the firmware on both batteries, and pretty much instantly the SolarAssistant recognised both batteries with 100% SoH and 100Ah total capacity. So far, so good. They also installed a CloudLink device to the main battery, which now makes sure that the battery firmware gets updated automatically in future. It's a cool little device, although I must say that the SolarAssistant's UI is way more advanced than what I can see in the CloudLink dashboard as a customer. I'm sure they'll get there – but don't underestimate the open source community behind the Raspberry Pi / Solar Assistant product! As both the SolarAssistant and the CloudLink want to be connected through the RS232 port using an RJ11 cable, I can't connect them both properly. I'm now waiting for a phone line / RJ11 splitter to arrive so I can try to attach them both to the main battery, wondering if that will work. Anyway, SolarAssistant can actually read battery data through the SunSynk inverter, but it's not as detailed as when it was hard-wired to the battery. I can only see SoC, Power, Current, Voltage and Temperature: (Compare this reading to the battery snapshots I posted before – they're way more detailed...) Not too bad, but will update once the splitter arrives, to see if I can set hard-wire the RasPi and the CloudLink to the same RS232 port. Long story short, I now have two batteries with 100Ah each, and they last as long as I would expect them to last. We're finally making it through the night without using any grid, at all, and it feels great! A snapshot from my SolarAssitant dashboard, showing the last 24 hours from now: And the view from the CloudLink user dashboard, which (as I menioned) isn't as pretty, and not as detailed, either. Plus, at the moment, our 5kW SunSynk inverter is still in beta phase –– the CloudLink should eventually be able to also connect to the inverter, once the necessary cable and software are available. The Hubble technician will reach out to me once it's possible, so we can hook up the inverter to the CloudLink as well. For now, it only reads the battery data, and also updates the firmware on the batteries whenever Hubble rolls out any new software: All in all, I'm super happy with the support from Hubble but also with our installer, and the system is finally working the way I was hoping it would. My next goal, and I'll post another thread sometime, will be to automate our solar geyser using the SolarAssistant MQQT mechanism – my idea is to only allow the geyser to draw energy whenever the SoC of the batteries is at a certain level... Stay tuned! Marc Edited April 7, 2022 by MarcFe MdF 1 Quote
P1000 Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, MarcFe said: I'm now waiting for a phone line / RJ11 splitter to arrive so I can try to attach them both to the main battery, wondering if that will work. Don't do that, it will not work and could potentially cause damage. You will have multiple drivers on the one line. (and multiple receivers on the other, but that won't cause much of an issue) MdF 1 Quote
MarcFe Posted April 7, 2022 Author Posted April 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, P1000 said: Don't do that, it will not work and could potentially cause damage. You will have multiple drivers on the one line. (and multiple receivers on the other, but that won't cause much of an issue) Hi @P1000, thanks, that's good to know. I was assuming that the protocols used would assign different addresses to different consumers. But if it might cause issues when two nodes want to read (or especially: write) to the batteries, I can understand that this is not the best of my ideas. Do you, by any chance, know, if the RasPi can also read Hubble AM2 data using the RS485 (RJ45) port? I reckon I'd have to get a cable from RJ45 to USB (similar to the one the SunSynk is attached to the RasPi) first, but would only do if I know it will work. Reading the SolarAssistant information here, I'm not 100% sure if the RasPi can read the RS485 port of the Hubble batteries: https://solar-assistant.io/help/configuration/battery My current thinking, if everything fails, is, to only use the SolarAssistant software, and unplug the CloudLink, as i'ts less useful to me. I'd occasionally plug it around to get potential updates from Hubble to the batteries, and wait until the inverter is fully integrated into the CloudLink sphere... Marc Quote
werner.potgieter Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 I am also finding the riot cloudlink underwhelming... MarcFe and system32 1 1 Quote
Yellow Measure Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 4 hours ago, MarcFe said: And the view from the CloudLink user dashboard, which (as I menioned) isn't as pretty, and not as detailed, either. Plus, at the moment, our 5kW SunSynk inverter is still in beta phase –– the CloudLink should eventually be able to also connect to the inverter, once the necessary cable and software are available. The Hubble technician will reach out to me once it's possible, so we can hook up the inverter to the CloudLink as well. For now, it only reads the battery data, and also updates the firmware on the batteries whenever Hubble rolls out any new software: I am actually super impressed with the Cloudlink. Although I am only connected to the serial port of the master Hubble, I can real-time monitor the charge and discharge rates of all 3 batteries, with per second updates, and also the status of the BMS messages, from thousands of km away. To get to these features isn't very intuitive, but they are there. Click here For this, real-time charge and discharge of individual batteries Click here For real-time energy Also override of the BMS settings: I look forward to next week when I install it correctly, with CAN and RS-485 cables too, will probably be able to see and do far more. Quote
TimCam Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 Great to see you all sorted, and just a firmware update. Encouraging to see you had good service from the installer and Hubble. Quote
system32 Posted April 8, 2022 Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) @MarcFe I also have BOTH Solar-Assistant and CloudLink, and much prefer Solar-Assistant as Solar-Assistant: Supports mqtt/Home-Assistant Supports node-red Works locally without internet connection Has internet portal if you want to access remotely I did a network capture and CloudLink sends it data to cloud using mqtt. I asked Hubble support if they could expose the mqtt, but they said NO My CloudLink is connected to the RS232/Console port on the master battery for support purposes and not much else. You can still use Solar-Assistant to monitor your Hubble batteries. RS485 Modbus is a multidrop system. Connect the Solar-Assistant with RJ45 2-1 "splitter" or 4-1 "splitter" - works a charm. https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/collections/diy/products/network-cable-2-port-adapter For 4 batteries you can get a 4-1 splitter, something like the LogiLink MP0032: https://manicaa.com/catalog/product/view/id/1433383/s/logilink-mp0032-5-port-rj45-splitter-with-cable If you have an Ethernet crimping tool you can make your own splitter by binding all pin 1s together, pin 2s together, etc. A small Ethernet network patch panel would be a good starting point, just connect all pin 1s together, pin 2s together, etc. https://www.geewiz.co.za/networking-cablestoolspatch-panel/72955-intellinet-167642-12-port-10-1u-patch-panel.html I used an additional USB/RS485 cable from Solar-Assistant Shop https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/sunsynk_rs485 Using RS458 Solar-Assistant reads and displays most of the battery information (not as detailed as the RS232 console port) Edited April 8, 2022 by system32 werner.potgieter 1 Quote
system32 Posted April 8, 2022 Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) On 2022/04/07 at 1:40 PM, YellowTapemeasure said: <SNIP> Also override of the BMS settings: I look forward to next week when I install it correctly, with CAN and RS-485 cables too, will probably be able to see and do far more. AFAIK, For two packs use 200, for 4 use 400. Edited April 8, 2022 by system32 Quote
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