Unintentional Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 Good morning PF! I have a rather strange issue on my ~2 year old Sunsynk 8kW inverter that has me puzzled. My setup seems stable and all functions are working correctly until we have load shedding. 80% of the time when load shedding hits my inverter will cut power for a minute or two then restore as if nothing has happened. The display sometimes says F18, sometimes it shows nothing but always shuts us down then comes back up fine and will function until the next bout of load shedding. It never happens again after the initial load shedding cut hits no matter what I do load wise. I've tried tripping the AC manually many times to see if it does the same but it does not, ONLY happens on load shedding specifically. It happens at night with no solar, haven't seen it happen in the day. When this happens my load can be at 2kw or under 200W, same result. My setup is as follows: Sunsynk 8kW - I've tried many settings but always seems fine on AC failure so I'm assuming it's not one of my settings(?) All my load is on the Essentials port. I rarely exceed 5kW 5 x 5.2kwh BlueNova lithium batteries 18 x 365W CanadianSolar on MPPT1 9 x 465W JASolar on MPPT2 Geyser is on Aux and does not run at night ever (Sonoff controller there) All other features seem perfect - export to grid, generation and storage. Thanks for any help. Quote
Halcyon Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 When last did your machine receive a firmware upgrade? Unfortunately it is not unusual for these machines to have a bug or two in the firmware which is often resolved with updates. Quote
iiznh Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) Post some screenshots of your settings too. https://www.sunsynk.org/post/understanding-fault-codes Do you have anything connected with large inrush currents? Maybe a pump? Do you limit the current draw from the battery? Edited April 19, 2022 by iiznh Quote
Unintentional Posted April 19, 2022 Author Posted April 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, Halcyon said: When last did your machine receive a firmware upgrade? Unfortunately it is not unusual for these machines to have a bug or two in the firmware which is often resolved with updates. Ah forgot to post that, I recently upgraded (March 2022) and am on Comm : e422, MCU : 6012. It was also doing this prior to the upgrade. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 19, 2022 Author Posted April 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, iiznh said: Post some screenshots of your settings too. https://www.sunsynk.org/post/understanding-fault-codes Do you have anything connected with large inrush currents? Maybe a pump? Do you limit the current draw from the battery? Which settings would you like to see? I'm happy to post as required. I do limit power draw to 155A from the batteries - my fuse is rated at 160A. No large inrush that I can think of and the load is usually very low (like last night at 10PM I was around 200W total when load shedding hit and it cut me off). What's throwing me is why just with load shedding? and only in the second it hits? After the initial shut down all is good. It doesn't ever happen again during load shedding and is fine after as well (when grid returns). Quote
Brickman Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Unintentional said: Good morning PF! I have a rather strange issue on my ~2 year old Sunsynk 8kW inverter that has me puzzled. My setup seems stable and all functions are working correctly until we have load shedding. 80% of the time when load shedding hits my inverter will cut power for a minute or two then restore as if nothing has happened. The display sometimes says F18, sometimes it shows nothing but always shuts us down then comes back up fine and will function until the next bout of load shedding. It never happens again after the initial load shedding cut hits no matter what I do load wise. I've tried tripping the AC manually many times to see if it does the same but it does not, ONLY happens on load shedding specifically. It happens at night with no solar, haven't seen it happen in the day. When this happens my load can be at 2kw or under 200W, same result. My setup is as follows: Sunsynk 8kW - I've tried many settings but always seems fine on AC failure so I'm assuming it's not one of my settings(?) All my load is on the Essentials port. I rarely exceed 5kW 5 x 5.2kwh BlueNova lithium batteries 18 x 365W CanadianSolar on MPPT1 9 x 465W JASolar on MPPT2 Geyser is on Aux and does not run at night ever (Sonoff controller there) All other features seem perfect - export to grid, generation and storage. Thanks for any help. I had a similar issue today during loadshedding. Also a 2 year old 8k but on e41c 6006 firmware. In my case the MPPT was generating 1 to 2 kw since it is overcast and drizzling. It "tripped" three times in the space of about 10 minutes while the output power was a little over 4kw. I could see an instantaneous peak of just over 6 Kw on Solar Assistant, but then lost connection due to Wifi dying. No alarm, no fault codes. Resets itself and starts up again. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 19, 2022 Author Posted April 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Brickman said: I had a similar issue today during loadshedding. Also a 2 year old 8k but on e41c 6006 firmware. In my case the MPPT was generating 1 to 2 kw since it is overcast and drizzling. It "tripped" three times in the space of about 10 minutes while the output power was a little over 4kw. I could see an instantaneous peak of just over 6 Kw on Solar Assistant, but then lost connection due to Wifi dying. No alarm, no fault codes. Resets itself and starts up again. Sounds similar but mine will only cut power once, as load shedding starts and then provide reliably for the rest of the session. Sometimes I have no warning, but most of the time I get an F18 Overcurrent warning. Sunsynk did another update today so we'll see if that helps when I have load shedding at 10PM. Last night I stood at the inverter at 10PM and watched it - no spike in usage, nothing. Just AC down heard a click and lights went out. Load was around 300W at the time. 2 mins later all is back and functions completely normally until the next load shedding. Quote
Halcyon Posted April 19, 2022 Posted April 19, 2022 Has this issue plagued you since day one of your installation or did it manifest recently? If it manifested recently I think it is likely to be a buggy firmware version. Hopefully the update does the trick. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 13 hours ago, Halcyon said: Has this issue plagued you since day one of your installation or did it manifest recently? If it manifested recently I think it is likely to be a buggy firmware version. Hopefully the update does the trick. Was perfect for the first year and a half or so - no issues whatsoever. Started about 6 months ago. Quick update - we've had 4 load shedding sessions since the update (6014, Comm 424) and no outage yet so I'm hoping it was firmware at this point... Quote
Gerrie Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 On 2022/04/19 at 9:19 AM, Unintentional said: Geyser is on Aux and does not run at night ever (Sonoff controller there) I don’t trust the aux port, I notice you have a sonoff controller there but if sonoff might lose power for whatever reason it might be a cause of concern. Most guys don’t use the aux because of some sort of bug in there, I tested and played around with the aux port and have found it to even supply power at midnight. It might not be the case in your setup but needs extra attention. Also just relook the ct coil wiring as it can cause wrong readings. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 21, 2022 Author Posted April 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Gerrie said: I don’t trust the aux port, I notice you have a sonoff controller there but if sonoff might lose power for whatever reason it might be a cause of concern. Most guys don’t use the aux because of some sort of bug in there, I tested and played around with the aux port and have found it to even supply power at midnight. It might not be the case in your setup but needs extra attention. Also just relook the ct coil wiring as it can cause wrong readings. Agreed - the aux port was really buggy with activation so I put the sonoff to mitigate the weirdness, haven't had an issue since. Since the latest update - no more random power outages so I'm hoping that continues. CT seems to be reading correctly, see pic. Gerrie 1 Quote
Gerrie Posted April 21, 2022 Posted April 21, 2022 I see your grid power has a minus reading and I assume that is because you are feeding back into the grid, I think if that is the case than your inverter will switch off to prevent back feed to grid as you explained because it is designed not to feed back to grid during an outage. It will than switch to island mode where it does not feed to grid until grid returns it will start feeding grid again. Someone else that know Sunsync might also be able to confirm this. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 21, 2022 Author Posted April 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Gerrie said: I see your grid power has a minus reading and I assume that is because you are feeding back into the grid, I think if that is the case than your inverter will switch off to prevent back feed to grid as you explained because it is designed not to feed back to grid during an outage. It will than switch to island mode where it does not feed to grid until grid returns it will start feeding grid again. Someone else that know Sunsync might also be able to confirm this. Yeah we feed back into the grid. The inverter mostly doesn't switch off, just over the past few months during load shedding. Just happened again so my firmware didn't sort it out. As it was 8PM I wasn't feeding anything back and the load was low as it usually is when it does an F18 over current. So I'm out of ideas at this point. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 22, 2022 Author Posted April 22, 2022 Here are my settings if anyone sees anything that could explain this: Quote
I84RiS Posted April 22, 2022 Posted April 22, 2022 On 2022/04/21 at 8:20 PM, Unintentional said: Yeah we feed back into the grid. The inverter mostly doesn't switch off, just over the past few months during load shedding. Just happened again so my firmware didn't sort it out. As it was 8PM I wasn't feeding anything back and the load was low as it usually is when it does an F18 over current. So I'm out of ideas at this point. Do you perhaps have any surge protection devices or plugs (those Red Ellies plugs comes to mind) after the inverter? Quote
Unintentional Posted April 23, 2022 Author Posted April 23, 2022 8 hours ago, I84RiS said: Do you perhaps have any surge protection devices or plugs (those Red Ellies plugs comes to mind) after the inverter? I do yes, on my fridge and PC. Quote
Halcyon Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) I feel your pain with figuring out this one. I am also trying to get the bottom of a new curious situation with my Sunsynk machine where it drops grid connection randomly. Is there no way you can simulate a load shedding event? Theoretically what is the difference between switching off power at your breaker at the DB board and load shedding power off? Perhaps something to do with how the neutral wire is disconnected and some of our more experience PF members may give some insight. If you could simulate the load shedding event you could place a good quality clamp meter with inrush current measurement capability on your load output live wire to see what is happening when power is cut. I would also do the same on the load output neutral wire to check if there is an imbalance. Some of the older machines measurements are on the neutral wire and if there is a common neutral a current rush on that wire may trigger the trip/fault on the machine unknowingly. Edited April 23, 2022 by Halcyon Quote
I84RiS Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Unintentional said: I do yes, on my fridge and PC. Remove them and see if it makes a difference. There have been some reported cases of trips that are caused by these devices (not inverter specific) that are similar to what you report Ideally you would want to add an over/undercurrent protector before the inverter and not after it. The benefit of doing this is that it will also protect the inverter. On some of these devices you can also set a time delay to when power is restored to the inverter, so when eskom comes back on there is a delay to when AC is restored to the inverter giving the AC time to stabilize. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 23, 2022 Author Posted April 23, 2022 1 hour ago, I84RiS said: Remove them and see if it makes a difference. There have been some reported cases of trips that are caused by these devices (not inverter specific) that are similar to what you report Ideally you would want to add an over/undercurrent protector before the inverter and not after it. The benefit of doing this is that it will also protect the inverter. On some of these devices you can also set a time delay to when power is restored to the inverter, so when eskom comes back on there is a delay to when AC is restored to the inverter giving the AC time to stabilize. I'll do that, never thought of them until you mentioned. What sort of protector would you put upstream of the inverter as a matter of interest? Quote
Unintentional Posted April 23, 2022 Author Posted April 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Halcyon said: I feel your pain with figuring out this one. I am also trying to get the bottom of a new curious situation with my Sunsynk machine where it drops grid connection randomly. Is there no way you can simulate a load shedding event? Theoretically what is the difference between switching off power at your breaker at the DB board and load shedding power off? Perhaps something to do with how the neutral wire is disconnected and some of our more experience PF members may give some insight. If you could simulate the load shedding event you could place a good quality clamp meter with inrush current measurement capability on your load output live wire to see what is happening when power is cut. I would also do the same on the load output neutral wire to check if there is an imbalance. Some of the older machines measurements are on the neutral wire and if there is a common neutral a current rush on that wire may trigger the trip/fault on the machine unknowingly. Oh damn, not dropping with grid fluctuations on your end? Seen it happen here were grid side voltage goes down to 180V or so. Simulating the load shedding is the strange one - I've tried tripping the A/C about 20 times and it never throws an F18 so no clue what the difference is. I initially thought maybe my inverter was trying to supply grid side but subsequently changed inverter to Load Only to eliminate that possibility and still F18'd. Also my CT was wired and reading correctly so seemed unlikely. I don't know how the neutral is wired to be honest or if my machine is older or not - is there a way to check? Quote
Halcyon Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Unintentional said: Oh damn, not dropping with grid fluctuations on your end? Seen it happen here were grid side voltage goes down to 180V or so. Simulating the load shedding is the strange one - I've tried tripping the A/C about 20 times and it never throws an F18 so no clue what the difference is. I initially thought maybe my inverter was trying to supply grid side but subsequently changed inverter to Load Only to eliminate that possibility and still F18'd. Also my CT was wired and reading correctly so seemed unlikely. I don't know how the neutral is wired to be honest or if my machine is older or not - is there a way to check? Our voltage is pretty stable. Lowest I have seen on the log is about 206V which is well within the range of min and max in settings. Minimum is set at 185V before it should cut off. I have reported to Sunsynk but there is no logical explanation yet. They suggested I monitor the grid frequency and voltage but I am not sure how I can do that over an extended period with another metering device that is not the inverter and can log the frequcny and voltage. When the inverter loses grid one can hear the relay click inside and the Sunsynk app sends a grid disconnect notification to my phone but the non-essentials still run fine in the background or so it seems. Pool pump kept on buzzing away when it happened today again! The machine then reconnects a minute or so later. So I am scratching my head.... Can you access you street side switch at the utility meter to turn the mains off to see if it makes a difference to simulate? I still suggest to try and measure the current on the grid, load (live and neutral wire) and potentially battery cables ins and outs when the power is cut. This will confirm if there is indeed some current flowing which is not being picked up in time to be logged by the machine. Hopefully load shedding back soon for you to be able to test! ha ha. The only way to tell is by viewing the board inside the machine. I do not suggest to open it up Are you using a relay to correct the earth neutral bond when you lose grid? I am not sure if this could cause your issue but it is necessary step to have installed for Sunsynk machines. Edited April 23, 2022 by Halcyon Quote
TimCam Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 On 2022/04/22 at 9:37 AM, Unintentional said: Here are my settings if anyone sees anything that could explain this: Try opening your Voltage and Frequency settings a bit. Also if you are not using your AUX port just set as Generator in. As Eskom opens the breaker, maybe back EMF through MV and LV transformers causes a spike, which the inverter does not enjoy. To test again, give Eskom a call to drop the neighborhood power. Quote
Unintentional Posted April 23, 2022 Author Posted April 23, 2022 59 minutes ago, TimCam said: Try opening your Voltage and Frequency settings a bit. Also if you are not using your AUX port just set as Generator in. As Eskom opens the breaker, maybe back EMF through MV and LV transformers causes a spike, which the inverter does not enjoy. To test again, give Eskom a call to drop the neighborhood power. Hah, I'm sure the neighbours would LOVE me... So I tighted up the grid settings to see if it'd drop the grid more easily and not F18 - it was on standard settings before. If we are getting a spike through the grid my neighbour who also has the 8kw Sunsynk is not having the same issue. Perhaps it's an issue on the battery side? BMS reading incorrectly or something? Aux I do have my geyser on - but it's also run by a Sonoff and does not run at night at all... Quote
Unintentional Posted April 23, 2022 Author Posted April 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Halcyon said: Our voltage is pretty stable. Lowest I have seen on the log is about 206V which is well within the range of min and max in settings. Minimum is set at 185V before it should cut off. I have reported to Sunsynk but there is no logical explanation yet. They suggested I monitor the grid frequency and voltage but I am not sure how I can do that over an extended period with another metering device that is not the inverter and can log the frequcny and voltage. When the inverter loses grid one can hear the relay click inside and the Sunsynk app sends a grid disconnect notification to my phone but the non-essentials still run fine in the background or so it seems. Pool pump kept on buzzing away when it happened today again! The machine then reconnects a minute or so later. So I am scratching my head.... Can you access you street side switch at the utility meter to turn the mains off to see if it makes a difference to simulate? I still suggest to try and measure the current on the grid, load (live and neutral wire) and potentially battery cables ins and outs when the power is cut. This will confirm if there is indeed some current flowing which is not being picked up in time to be logged by the machine. Hopefully load shedding back soon for you to be able to test! ha ha. The only way to tell is by viewing the board inside the machine. I do not suggest to open it up Are you using a relay to correct the earth neutral bond when you lose grid? I am not sure if this could cause your issue but it is necessary step to have installed for Sunsynk machines. For monitoring, Solar assistant is almost second by second on a RPi4 if you want to give that a try. Street side is locked but I'm sure I can make a plan there... I do not have a relay - I'll definitely speak to the electrician about that... Quote
Halcyon Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 Is your BMs errror stop function ticked under battery settings? Apparently if that is on and there is a BMs error the Inverter will shut down and restart. Check that. StepbyStep 1 Quote
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