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Posted

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody would be able as provide any feedback on my proposed wiring diagram. I have draw a quick diagram of what I think is should look like. I am no electrician and only have limited knowledge.

I recently bought a Sunsynk hybrid 5.5 kw inverter and  1x5.5kw Hubble battery (panels to follow). Before attempting to install this setup I want to educate myself and jet comfortable  with all required equipment and terminology. For now I just want to know how to wire basic essential and non-essential distribution boards. 

 

image.thumb.png.3307547cb9c714ee88a04fbdc42bc6bc.png

WIRING DIAGRAM REV0.pdf

Posted (edited)

Personally I will advice to add another EL to feed the inverter with another double pole circuit breaker (instead a "inverter switch" as you named it - ie dont use a double pole isolator.  - Then everything is fed off an EL device and you have overload protection to the inverter.

 

 

You could feed the Inverter from the EL protecting your non-essential loads - but from personal experience its better to have the inverter supplied from a dedicated EL as nuisance tripping could be an issue and they are not that expensive considering the potential  frustrations. 

For a 5kW inverter I use a 40 A  , C Curve breaker to supply the Inverter and then another 40 A circuit breaker after the inverter  and 16 mm2 cabling.  

Surge arrestors just after the main switch will also be a good idea  (  I couldn't add it to my main DB due to space constraints) 

Edited by Jaws
Posted

I think only the changeover switch needs to be moved to after the "from inverter" MCB.

1 hour ago, Jaws said:

Personally I will advice to add another EL to feed the inverter with another double pole circuit breaker (instead a "inverter switch" as you named it - ie dont use a double pole isolator.  - Then everything is fed off an EL device and you have overload protection to the inverter.

 

An RCD is not an isolator, and cannot be used as one. He needs a MCB in that location to meet code. Besides that, the RCD before the inverter will most likely give false trips.

1 hour ago, Jaws said:

Surge arrestors just after the main switch will also be a good idea  (  I couldn't add it to my main DB due to space constraints) 

Agreed

Posted
21 minutes ago, P1000 said:

I think only the changeover switch needs to be moved to after the "from inverter" MCB.

Agree with this because if the inverter fails and needs to be removed, it must be isolated.

Posted

Hi P1000

The advice I have given is based on the latest National Standards for South Africa.

1.  The Main Switch may be an E/L device if it has an isolator function.  But funnily enough I did say add a 40 A Double pole circuit breaker before the E/L which can function as an point of isolation for the inverter supply.

Now you say that he needs a miniature circuit breaker to meet code - can you please educate me on the specific code that you are referring to, I'm always grateful when I can learn from others. 

2. An inverter is metal enclosure (that is bonded granted ) but still a metal enclosure with live power inside.   A person will come into contact with the conductive piece of equipment at certain times.   Now this my personal opinion and advice that if some stranger on the  internet would ask me  - Supply the inverter from an E/L

In the latest revision of SANS 10142 its clear that the intent is that every single appliance should be protected by an E/L as it saves lives.  Even geysers that were excluded in past revisions must now be supplied by E/L device.

Now you can speculate that an Inverter will cause an E/L to trip , but in my limited experience - using a dedicated E/L to supply an inverter takes cares of nuisance  trips. 

Please look at SANS 10142-1 :2020 edition 3 (latest revision) Annex P.   Can you please tell me why in every single example for alternative supplies with an UPS the UPS is supplied with an E/L ?   Now I cannot say that not using an E/L is not to code as you state because Annex P is only informative.

But I do agree with this Annexure personally. 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Jaws said:

Hi P1000

The advice I have given is based on the latest National Standards for South Africa.

1.  The Main Switch may be an E/L device if it has an isolator function.  But funnily enough I did say add a 40 A Double pole circuit breaker before the E/L which can function as an point of isolation for the inverter supply.

Now you say that he needs a miniature circuit breaker to meet code - can you please educate me on the specific code that you are referring to, I'm always grateful when I can learn from others. 

2. An inverter is metal enclosure (that is bonded granted ) but still a metal enclosure with live power inside.   A person will come into contact with the conductive piece of equipment at certain times.   Now this my personal opinion and advice that if some stranger on the  internet would ask me  - Supply the inverter from an E/L

In the latest revision of SANS 10142 its clear that the intent is that every single appliance should be protected by an E/L as it saves lives.  Even geysers that were excluded in past revisions must now be supplied by E/L device.

Now you can speculate that an Inverter will cause an E/L to trip , but in my limited experience - using a dedicated E/L to supply an inverter takes cares of nuisance  trips. 

Please look at SANS 10142-1 :2020 edition 3 (latest revision) Annex P.   Can you please tell me why in every single example for alternative supplies with an UPS the UPS is supplied with an E/L ?   Now I cannot say that not using an E/L is not to code as you state because Annex P is only informative.

But I do agree with this Annexure personally. 

 

You are correct on the SANS issue, I misremembered (as long as you have an MCB for overcurrent protection). I don't think you gain much by adding and E/L - an inverter is a generator - if you trip the supply, it still has the ability to kill.

Posted

Earth Leakage with Overload Protection is regarded as an MCB(Green and White lever type) No need for a additional MCB if one uses that type of E/L.

I use an E/L before and after my inverter. Haven't had nuisance trips accept when my toaster acted up.

Posted
21 minutes ago, Jacques Ester said:

Earth Leakage with Overload Protection is regarded as an MCB(Green and White lever type) No need for a additional MCB if one uses that type of E/L.

I use an E/L before and after my inverter. Haven't had nuisance trips accept when my toaster acted up.

If you have the space  I prefer to use a seperate overload + E/L  because if the combined unit does fail you pay a lot more to replace it . With the seperate units the E/L is actually not that expensive.

 

 

  • 6 months later...
Posted
On 2022/05/04 at 12:05 PM, Jaws said:

Hi P1000

The advice I have given is based on the latest National Standards for South Africa.

1.  The Main Switch may be an E/L device if it has an isolator function.  But funnily enough I did say add a 40 A Double pole circuit breaker before the E/L which can function as an point of isolation for the inverter supply.

Now you say that he needs a miniature circuit breaker to meet code - can you please educate me on the specific code that you are referring to, I'm always grateful when I can learn from others. 

2. An inverter is metal enclosure (that is bonded granted ) but still a metal enclosure with live power inside.   A person will come into contact with the conductive piece of equipment at certain times.   Now this my personal opinion and advice that if some stranger on the  internet would ask me  - Supply the inverter from an E/L

In the latest revision of SANS 10142 its clear that the intent is that every single appliance should be protected by an E/L as it saves lives.  Even geysers that were excluded in past revisions must now be supplied by E/L device.

Now you can speculate that an Inverter will cause an E/L to trip , but in my limited experience - using a dedicated E/L to supply an inverter takes cares of nuisance  trips. 

Please look at SANS 10142-1 :2020 edition 3 (latest revision) Annex P.   Can you please tell me why in every single example for alternative supplies with an UPS the UPS is supplied with an E/L ?   Now I cannot say that not using an E/L is not to code as you state because Annex P is only informative.

But I do agree with this Annexure personally. 

 

What is an E/L? 

 

  • 1 month later...
Posted
8 hours ago, sadik said:

Hi

Please can someone repost diagram as per advice given If it possible.

Thanks

Diagram will vary based on the size/make/type of inverter. Supply more specific details. 

  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 2023/01/15 at 9:31 PM, janhoza said:

95% of the wiring interface between an inverter and DB board will be the same. It would be good to see a diagram taking account of all the above comments.

I would also appreciate if someone can provided an updated wiring diagram.

  • 1 month later...
Posted

I bought a Mecer 5kva 48v hybrid inverter and a Mecer m3000 3.5kwh lithium ion module. Any suggestions by means of a diagram how to connect to the db board please. One person say you need this. Other one say no you need this. It becomes ver confusing. Thanks 

  • 2 months later...
Posted

Earth leakage on incoming side and outgoing side of an inverter can cause nuisance tripping. I install it on outgoing side which feeds appliances and essential loads where you come into contact with. We all know 2 earth leakages in series can cause tripping it is a known fact. This is my opinion and advice.

Posted
9 hours ago, mascof said:

 We all know 2 earth leakages in series can cause tripping it is a known fact. This is my opinion and advice.

I wonder what the reason would be.

My own experience with 2 in series while camping with the caravan there is always 2 in series and I have never had 1 tripping unless there is moisture in the power cord. 

May be I'm just lucky. 

Posted

Interesting opinions here, I also believed that 2 E/L in series would cause issues and that the Inverter should always be before EL, I am using double pole isolator for input and output of the inverter (before the change over switch). 

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