Sagren Posted May 10, 2022 Posted May 10, 2022 HI, I am looking at replacing my AGM 2x100ha batteries with lithium ion batteries. The batteries are connected to a Mecer 3kva inverter. I am considering the Hubble Lithium S-120 12.8V 1.5kWh ( I am open to alternative suggestions). May I get some advice with regard to the cell balancer that this battery requires? Thank you. Quote
Irocmaster Posted May 10, 2022 Posted May 10, 2022 Shop for the best price, 12v lithium batteries are expensive for the watt hour capacity . Out of stock at the moment the Mercer 200a 12v 2.4 kWh are a better option for the money. ( Second live cells) These have no BMS communication to the inverter but so do your mercer 3kva inverter have no BMS communication. Load tested many of them and they deliver. can't say if they match the "10" year promise of some brands, which i do not believe in. They will all last at least 3 year. That is longer than warranty of 99% of most manufactures warranty duration. Cheap option are deep cycle silver calcium national auto batteries (Midas, Willard, Exide, No Name all manufactured by national auto batteries ). They can handle high ambient temps better. Quote
Sagren Posted May 17, 2022 Author Posted May 17, 2022 Thank you. How do I get around lack of BMS issue? Would I need to get a separate adapter? Also, The Hubble needs a balancer. Does the same apply to the Mecer? Have you heard of a brand called Rentech? Quote
Nexuss Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Sagren said: Thank you. How do I get around lack of BMS issue? Would I need to get a separate adapter? Also, The Hubble needs a balancer. Does the same apply to the Mecer? Have you heard of a brand called Rentech? The hubble s120 has its own BMS built in , why do you think the hubble needs a balancer? only reason i can think of is if you have a 24Volt inverter and you need to put them in series ? Do you have a 12 or 24 volt inverter ? I have a friend that is using 2 of them paralleled on a 12v/1,5kw inverter,and its working great. Quote
Nexuss Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 On 2022/05/10 at 8:47 PM, Irocmaster said: Cheap option are deep cycle silver calcium national auto batteries (Midas, Willard, Exide, No Name all manufactured by national auto batteries ). They can handle high ambient temps better. Honestly this is some pretty bad/outdated advice. Lead acid works out more expensive when you take all the factors into account and they definitely do not perform better at higher ambient temps than any lithium chemistry. hoohloc 1 Quote
Irocmaster Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 Cheap alternative is what I said not that lead acid is better than lithium. The flooded calcium batteries handle higher temp better than AGM batteries. (What I should have said.) Quote
hoohloc Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 On 2022/05/10 at 8:47 PM, Irocmaster said: Shop for the best price, 12v lithium batteries are expensive for the watt hour capacity . Out of stock at the moment the Mercer 200a 12v 2.4 kWh are a better option for the money. ( Second live cells) These have no BMS communication to the inverter but so do your mercer 3kva inverter have no BMS communication. Load tested many of them and they deliver. can't say if they match the "10" year promise of some brands, which i do not believe in. They will all last at least 3 year. That is longer than warranty of 99% of most manufactures warranty duration. Cheap option are deep cycle silver calcium national auto batteries (Midas, Willard, Exide, No Name all manufactured by national auto batteries ). They can handle high ambient temps better. wasn't there a post here where they showed one of these cheap national auto batteries that exploded and destroyed someone's house? Quote
hoohloc Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Irocmaster said: Cheap alternative is what I said not that lead acid is better than lithium. The flooded calcium batteries handle higher temp better than AGM batteries. (What I should have said.) don't forget to mention that they are cheap and they explode without a warning Energy-Jason 1 Quote
Irocmaster Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 Yes true they can gas very bad if hot. Remember the picks of the exploded house. Yes they need good ventilation. hoohloc 1 Quote
Irocmaster Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 Nasty people on this forums I see. O well not interested any more. hoohloc 1 Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 17 hours ago, Nexuss said: The hubble s120 has its own BMS built in , why do you think the hubble needs a balancer? only reason i can think of is if you have a 24Volt inverter and you need to put them in series ? Do you have a 12 or 24 volt inverter ? I have a friend that is using 2 of them paralleled on a 12v/1,5kw inverter,and its working great. Yes, I have a Mecer 24V 3kva Inveter. Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 17 hours ago, Nexuss said: The hubble s120 has its own BMS built in , why do you think the hubble needs a balancer? only reason i can think of is if you have a 24Volt inverter and you need to put them in series ? Do you have a 12 or 24 volt inverter ? I have a friend that is using 2 of them paralleled on a 12v/1,5kw inverter,and its working great. I have 2 12V batteries connected in series. Quote
Nexuss Posted May 18, 2022 Posted May 18, 2022 I also had a 24V inverter and the choices for lithium batteries are not amazing in terms of value/kwh for money . I would look at the Pylontech UP2500. Ultimately the best value is with 48volt inverters/batteries but that requires quite a bit more in terms of investment. Sagren 1 Quote
Scorp007 Posted May 18, 2022 Posted May 18, 2022 On 2022/05/10 at 7:47 PM, Sagren said: HI, I am looking at replacing my AGM 2x100ha batteries with lithium ion batteries. The batteries are connected to a Mecer 3kva inverter. I am considering the Hubble Lithium S-120 12.8V 1.5kWh ( I am open to alternative suggestions). May I get some advice with regard to the cell balancer that this battery requires? Thank you. Can just talk good things about my S-100 fitted 6 months ago without comms to a 2.4kw Axpert. Just on the balancer. The Victron Balancer will not work as the voltage is too low to trigger the balancer. I just monitor each battery voltage to see when I should charge the lower one. So far no need. As far as the so called higher expense of 12V lithium. I paid R3667 per kWh. I have not seen any 24/48V coming even close to this Sagren, zsde and Nexuss 3 Quote
Scorp007 Posted May 18, 2022 Posted May 18, 2022 On 2022/05/17 at 4:54 PM, Irocmaster said: Yes true they can gas very bad if hot. Remember the picks of the exploded house. Yes they need good ventilation. But we don't want to mention they were about the cheapest of the imported brands. Nothing wrong with the FNBatteries locally made. I have seen many not cycled everyday that gave 6 years service. Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 9 hours ago, Nexuss said: I also had a 24V inverter and the choices for lithium batteries are not amazing in terms of value/kwh for money . I would look at the Pylontech UP2500. Ultimately the best value is with 48volt inverters/batteries but that requires quite a bit more in terms of investment. Agreed. I ultimately aim to upgrade to a 5kW system, but the batteries are no plying ball. Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 40 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: Can just talk good things about my S-100 fitted 6 months ago without comms to a 2.4kw Axpert. Just on the balancer. The Victron Balancer will not work as the voltage is too low to trigger the balancer. I just monitor each battery voltage to see when I should charge the lower one. So far no need. As far as the so called higher expense of 12V lithium. I paid R3667 per kWh. I have not seen any 24/48V coming even close to this Thank you. I saw a hubble balancer at Geewiz for R1000. Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: But we don't want to mention they were about the cheapest of the imported brands. Nothing wrong with the FNBatteries locally made. I have seen many not cycled everyday that gave 6 years service. Worth a consideration, then. Thanks. Quote
Pietpower Posted May 18, 2022 Posted May 18, 2022 57 minutes ago, Sagren said: Thank you. I saw a hubble balancer at Geewiz for R1000. That is a lot of money for two batteries in series. Could you not just measure each ones voltage, disconnect periodically and connect in parallel and charge with normal 12V charger to balance before reinstating. Quote
Sagren Posted May 18, 2022 Author Posted May 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Pietpower said: That is a lot of money for two batteries in series. Could you not just measure each ones voltage, disconnect periodically and connect in parallel and charge with normal 12V charger to balance before reinstating. I am considering it, Piet. Quote
jjmoodley Posted June 27, 2022 Posted June 27, 2022 Hi Guys, also looking for a drop in replacement for LA batteries but have a 12V so just looking for a single battery with no need for the balancer. How does the Hubble compare with the Blue Nova, 108AH Blue Nova vs Hubble S120. I see the power forum store also has a CFE-1280S. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Quote
Pensioner Posted June 8, 2024 Posted June 8, 2024 A stupid question! Why can't you connect 2 x 100ah silver calcium batteries in series to a Pylontech UP 2500 battery? Different chemistry only? Silver calcium charge UP to 16 volts. Apologies to the experts if this is a stupid question. I have 2 new 100ah silver calcium batteries sitting and do nothing......therefore the question. Inverter 3kw. Quote
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