Derek Ramos Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 Hi, this might be a long post please assist if possible Im looking to upgrade my current inverter (3kw an 200ah lead acid) which was a terrible choice to begin with. I need a system that can handle about 300watts for at least 6 hours easily… I’m renting a house which means at this point I probably won’t install solar but I want a system that I can add solar when I do buy a house. I have upgraded all the lights to led and rewired my DB board so that my lights and my Lounge plug point is on my inverter. Tv, DStv, WiFi, lamp. In total my plug point draws about 160watts. My largest light I use draws 52 watts. Total- 212watts Essentially I need this for load shedding but in the future I would like solar panels during the day for my geyser and to charge my batteries. (15.4amps or 3696watts for the geyser) my problem here is I don’t understand the lithium batteries capacities for what I need. I also don’t know if I should get an 8kw inverter or a 5kw inverter, I don’t understand the kw rating. Bearing in my the future expansion. Also please bear in mind that I am going to be doing the install myself. Very experienced in electrical work and very handy with everything I do. So let’s start… I’ve been looking at sunsynk inverters because they seem recommended by most… do I need a battery controller with this inverter? Also would I need a solar panel to inverter controller or would the solar panels just get connected into the inverter. Please excuse my poor reference to the correct names of the equipment. so here’s some basic questions.. 1. what size lithium battery would I need for your recommended size inverter for 300watts for 6 hours. 2. what’s the best value for money or best overall lithium battery brand 3. What inverter brand overall is best for this application 4. If I have the inverter and batteries then what extra equipment would I need to add solar panels to the system. Once I have some answers to these questions I will probably blow your mind with the series of questions that come after (sorry) I also have a full spreadsheet of what every light and appliance draws in amps or watts if needed. I also have a gas hob which means if expansion is possible financially I could look at a whole system to get off the grid. Eventually I will also do something about the geyser. For now I’m just annoyed with my current system and load shedding. any help on this situation will be greatly appreciated and I do applaud all the people on this forum for taking the time in helping people stick it Eskom. one last thing, this is not priority but I am curious. I have a crypto mining rig that draws exactly 2.92amps around 700watts (constantly 24/7) a company gave me a quote of 270k to run this rig 24/7 off the grid. Are they just high off their butt or is that what it would actually cost? once again thank you for even reading this far Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 Hey Derek Loadshedding backup + Future full home use + Crypto(700watts continuous) - This is my setup. Sunsynk for sure, if you have the cash for future expansion then go for the 8kw unit right from the start. The crypto part will reduce your time to return of investment right down from 7+ years I have a 5kw unit and 200ah lithium batteries and run my small crypto farm on it almost 24/7 (depends on amount of loadshedding) 400ah batteries will be more efficient for the crypto side, will have to wait for crypto to go up again before adding the extra 200ah Total cost including everything (inverter, panels, crypto rig, batteries, sundries) less than R180k VeresBenedek 1 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 22, 2022 Author Posted May 22, 2022 3 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: Hey Derek Loadshedding backup + Future full home use + Crypto(700watts continuous) - I have a 5kw unit and 200ah lithium batteries and run my small crypto farm on it almost 24/7 (depends on amount of loadshedding) 400ah batteries will be more efficient for the crypto side, will have to wait for crypto to go up again before adding the extra 200ah Total cost including everything (inverter, panels, crypto rig, batteries, sundries) less than R180k thank you so much for the reply, couple of questions what brand lithium batteries did you get and are they the same shape as the 100a lead acid ones? I see in your picture you have two inverters, I’m assuming you not using the other one. just to get this right, your crypto uses 700watts and you have spare power to run your house during load shedding? Or do you switch your rig off during load shedding. how many solar panels do you use on your system if you were just running your crypto? Or how many would you need to charge up your batteries during the day? does the sunsynk have settings so that you can set when to charge and how fast you want to charge the batteries. does the solar panels run your house during the day or your crypto during the day without the need of using your batteries? Unsure really on the complete function of solar panel, is it to just charge the batteries or to use the wattage during the day? thanks again… Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) Yes, the Growatt is for a side (Experiment) Project, not currently actively being used. I am currently using 2x Narada 100ah which provide about 80% of the crypto rigs power requirements at night. Compared side by side with a leadacid then lithium is a lot bigger, but if you compare capacity then the lithium battery is smaller that the leadacids. There are lithium batteries out there that are identical in shape and size to the lithium batteries especially in the diy scene, I have not personally looked into those in detail yet. To be precise, my crypto rig runs at 750 watts continuous (cpu,motherboard,psu and gpus). When loadshedding is at stage 0, 1 or 2 the crypto rig keeps running 24/7 if we are on stage 3 or higher then it automatically switches off (sonoff tasmota switch) when my area goes onto loadshedding, usually about 2 hours at a time. Need to add another 200ah of battery capacity then I can run my house and the crypto rig 24/7 regardless of loadshedding. My whole house excluding the stove runs off the inverter 24/7, geyser is on an automated sonoff tasmota switch to only run in the afternoon after the batteries get to 100% soc. I must add that it is just my wife and I, and we do not use a lot of power. Our continuous loads are under 300 watts constant with 5 or 6 bursts during the day for microwave and kettle. No heavy power using devices, only 2 small fridges, 2 laptops, router, all lights are 5watt led's 10x 540watt Jasolar split 5xEast 5xWest, nice even spread of power throughout the day, production a bit lower during winter due to east west orientation. https://www.diygeek.co.za/product/ja-solar-540w-mono-perc-half-cell-mbb/ Yes, the Sunsynk has quite a good settings interface to adjust almost exactly how you use the power generated from solar and the battery charging and discharging. Batteries are usually fully charged by midday, then rest of the day everything runs from the solar panels till about 5pm in winter and about 8pm in summer, then the batteries take over most of the load till about 4am. Eskom then takes over till the sun starts generating enough to take over again the the morning. All in all including the crypto rig I use on average about 10 units a day from eskom. When we have heavy loadshedding or many cloudy days then that sometimes goes up to 18 units a day Edited May 22, 2022 by WannabeSolarSparky Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) This was taken a few minutes ago. Everything running of solar, crypto rig and house. Edited May 22, 2022 by WannabeSolarSparky Antonio de Sa and Yellow Measure 2 Quote
Energy-Jason Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 11 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: Hi, this might be a long post please assist if possible Im looking to upgrade my current inverter (3kw an 200ah lead acid) which was a terrible choice to begin with. I need a system that can handle about 300watts for at least 6 hours easily… I’m renting a house which means at this point I probably won’t install solar but I want a system that I can add solar when I do buy a house. I have upgraded all the lights to led and rewired my DB board so that my lights and my Lounge plug point is on my inverter. Tv, DStv, WiFi, lamp. In total my plug point draws about 160watts. My largest light I use draws 52 watts. Total- 212watts Essentially I need this for load shedding but in the future I would like solar panels during the day for my geyser and to charge my batteries. (15.4amps or 3696watts for the geyser) my problem here is I don’t understand the lithium batteries capacities for what I need. I also don’t know if I should get an 8kw inverter or a 5kw inverter, I don’t understand the kw rating. Bearing in my the future expansion. Also please bear in mind that I am going to be doing the install myself. Very experienced in electrical work and very handy with everything I do. So let’s start… I’ve been looking at sunsynk inverters because they seem recommended by most… do I need a battery controller with this inverter? Also would I need a solar panel to inverter controller or would the solar panels just get connected into the inverter. Please excuse my poor reference to the correct names of the equipment. so here’s some basic questions.. 1. what size lithium battery would I need for your recommended size inverter for 300watts for 6 hours. 2. what’s the best value for money or best overall lithium battery brand 3. What inverter brand overall is best for this application 4. If I have the inverter and batteries then what extra equipment would I need to add solar panels to the system. Once I have some answers to these questions I will probably blow your mind with the series of questions that come after (sorry) I also have a full spreadsheet of what every light and appliance draws in amps or watts if needed. I also have a gas hob which means if expansion is possible financially I could look at a whole system to get off the grid. Eventually I will also do something about the geyser. For now I’m just annoyed with my current system and load shedding. any help on this situation will be greatly appreciated and I do applaud all the people on this forum for taking the time in helping people stick it Eskom. one last thing, this is not priority but I am curious. I have a crypto mining rig that draws exactly 2.92amps around 700watts (constantly 24/7) a company gave me a quote of 270k to run this rig 24/7 off the grid. Are they just high off their butt or is that what it would actually cost? once again thank you for even reading this far Great Post. Promoting to our Picks Sincerely Jay Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 22, 2022 Author Posted May 22, 2022 4 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: To be precise, my crypto rig runs at 750 watts continuous (cpu,motherboard,psu and gpus). When loadshedding is at stage 0, 1 or 2 the crypto rig keeps running 24/7 if we are on stage 3 or higher then it automatically switches off (sonoff tasmota switch) when my area goes onto loadshedding, usually about 2 hours at a time. Need to add another 200ah of battery capacity then I can run my house and the crypto rig 24/7 regardless of loadshedding. My whole house excluding the stove runs off the inverter 24/7, geyser is on an automated sonoff tasmota switch to only run in the afternoon after the batteries get to 100% soc. I must add that it is just my wife and I, and we do not use a lot of power. Our continuous loads are under 300 watts constant with 5 or 6 bursts during the day for microwave and kettle. No heavy power using devices, only 2 small fridges, 2 laptops, router, all lights are 5watt led's 10x 540watt Jasolar split 5xEast 5xWest, nice even spread of power throughout the day, production a bit lower during winter due to east west orientation. https://www.diygeek.co.za/product/ja-solar-540w-mono-perc-half-cell-mbb/ Yes, the Sunsynk has quite a good settings interface to adjust almost exactly how you use the power generated from solar and the battery charging and discharging. Batteries are usually fully charged by midday, then rest of the day everything runs from the solar panels till about 5pm in winter and about 8pm in summer, then the batteries take over most of the load till about 4am. Eskom then takes over till the sun starts generating enough to take over again the the morning. All in all including the crypto rig I use on average about 10 units a day from eskom. When we have heavy loadshedding or many cloudy days then that sometimes goes up to 18 units a day Wannabesolarspark- you are a legend man, thank you for this insightful post. okay so let me see if I’ve got this right. you have a 5kw inverter which means that it can send 5000 watts of power at any given time( I’m assuming that’s how inverters work) then you have a 10kwh battery pack which I’m also assuming you can send out 10000watts of power for one hour. or 1000watts for 10hours you also have 5400watts of solar coming in at peak lighting which Im assuming gives you 5400watts constantly and only dips when your lighting is bad? (rough estimation) please explain if any of the above is incorrect. now I’m thinking because you have 10000watts of battery when your solar turns off at night, your crypto rig does 750watts which then gives you 13 hours of running time just for your crypto miner (theoretically) but you saying from 8pm to 4am is roughly 8hrs? Is this correct? I will do some research on a sonoff switch because I don’t know what that is. based on everything you have told me, I think I’m going to start off with a 8kw sunsynk inverter, 2x 4.8kw (100ah) batteries. I obviously have a lot of stuff to work out still and I want to find the best battery but imo it’s seems the freedom won batteries are a lot more expensive, so I will do some research. regarding the solar panels, I’m renting so I don’t want to scatter this roof with panels and also I don’t know if the financing will be available for everything. but let’s just say I only want to charge the batteries for the evening, how many panels would I need or how many watts would I need to charge the batteries. I could also think about getting one 4.8kw battery and a couple of panels to charge that battery. do you have any thoughts on this? Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 22, 2022 Author Posted May 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Energy-Jason said: Great Post. Promoting to our Picks Sincerely Jay Thank you Jay, much appreciated Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 22, 2022 Posted May 22, 2022 48 minutes ago, Derek Ramos said: now I’m thinking because you have 10000watts of battery when your solar turns off at night, your crypto rig does 750watts which then gives you 13 hours of running time just for your crypto miner (theoretically) but you saying from 8pm to 4am is roughly 8hrs? Is this correct? Its mostly about conversion efficiencies that most people overlook when planning/designing their system. Mostly the installer will take care of the brainy working out stuff, but if you do DIY like I do then you should factor this in. Battery DC watts do not directly match/correspond/convert/invert to AC watts. There are all sorts of efficiency losses across the system. Cables/wiring/circuitry/temperatures/conversions etc have/add some losses/in-efficiencies, the inverter itself also gobbles up some 30-50 watts. You can see this on the image below. Battery is providing 369 watts at 7.44 amps into the inverter, some of it is used to power the inverter and rest is pushed out to the ac loads. So here the AC loads are using 277 watts at 1,2 amps Yellow Measure 1 Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 @WannabeSolarSparkythank you for the information I understand what you are saying about the dc to ac watts not being the same, I have read about it somewhere before but I am struggling to find out how to convert ac watts to dc watts. It seems like it not really just and easy calculation. also regarding your picture. I understand some of it but then again this is the first time I’m looking at the sunsynk interface so if it not to much trouble for you to explain what each gauge is for that would be great, otherwise not to worry I will do some googling and hopefully find out more information your posts have been extremely helpful. if you don’t mind me asking, I have another thread going in the batteries catagory and basically I’d like to know why you chose narada batteries? Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Derek Ramos said: if you don’t mind me asking, I have another thread going in the batteries category and basically I’d like to know why you chose narada batteries? They were the best value for money at the time of purchase and they were available... If I had to do the batteries all over again I would most definitely go the DIY route with cells (EVE) directly from china and a decent BMS (JK) that can outsmart any inverter. If I had to go the branded/ready/built route then most likely will go with the BSL batteries https://www.diygeek.co.za/product-category/energy-solutions/solar-batteries-online-south-africa/bsl_batteries/ The image/dashboard I show is not the sunsynk screen, that's my own custom screen that gets the data from the sunsynk inverter. I will drop an few images of the actual inverter screen and the sunsynk portal and link their data to my dashboards data for you to see the correlation between them. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: The image/dashboard I show is not the sunsynk screen, that's my own custom screen that gets the data from the sunsynk inverter. Exactly what program did you use to create this, it’s fantastic, gives you everything you need to know all my n the same picture Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Derek Ramos said: Exactly what program did you use to create this, it’s fantastic, gives you everything you need to know all my n the same picture https://powerforum.co.za/topic/12146-sunsynk55-simple-local-data-monitoring-no-cloudinternet-needed-setup-guide-step-1-the-software/ https://powerforum.co.za/topic/12185-sunsynk55-simple-local-data-monitoring-no-cloudinternet-needed-setup-guide-step-2-dashboardnodered/ Edited May 23, 2022 by WannabeSolarSparky Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 You could probably find many like this on google and here on the forum, showing the info you would see on the inverter itself. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 11 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: https://powerforum.co.za/topic/12146-sunsynk55-simple-local-data-monitoring-no-cloudinternet-needed-setup-guide-step-1-the-software/ https://powerforum.co.za/topic/12185-sunsynk55-simple-local-data-monitoring-no-cloudinternet-needed-setup-guide-step-2-dashboardnodered/ Awesome stuff, thank you. 28 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: I will drop an few images of the actual inverter screen and the sunsynk portal and link their data to my dashboards data for you to see the correlation between them. Thank you last question and then I will leave you alone why bsl battery? Any particular reason Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 The official Sunsynk Data Portal/app I prefer my own as I can do it how I prefer Quote
WannabeSolarSparky Posted May 23, 2022 Posted May 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Derek Ramos said: last question and then I will leave you alone why bsl battery? Any particular reason They offer versions with higher capacities per battery. And I like their logo And they do not pretend to be something they are not. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted May 23, 2022 Author Posted May 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: The official Sunsynk Data Portal/app I prefer my own as I can do it how I prefer I won’t lie, I prefer yours to! 2 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: They offer versions with higher capacities per battery. And I like their logo Fair enough once again, thank you for all you help! Quote
WJP Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 I'd like to chip in my two cents regarding the battery choice. I've worked for one of the local brands. I've met with another local brand & I've seen the internal build quality of a popular foreign one. Based on my limited knowledge & having seen behind the curtain I'd recommend the Hubble AM2s & the Riot Link accessory. Another important factor in your purchasing decision is the after sales service & access to it. I think Hubble is the way to go for this domestic application. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted June 5, 2022 Author Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) @WJPthank you for your input regarding the Hubble batteries, I just want to ask and possibly clarify a few things, First off I know that Hubble batteries are a 1C battery which doesn’t really bother me much as I will have multiple batteries but I’ve read that a 0.5c battery would have a longer life span, I have also seen the post regarding pylontech tech vs Hubble and how the Hubble batteries are of a better build quality, I have also seen more recent pictures of a pylontech batteries where as the build has improved internally. I have read that Hubble batteries are of a NMC chemistry and that the current market of lithium is moving away from NMC because the LiFePO4 batteries are better and give a longer life span than NMC batteries. my knowledge of batteries is very limited as I have only started my research a few weeks ago but if you have any more information regarding batteries and how to choose them it will be greatly appreciated I know that Hubble is made locally but to be honest I haven’t seen to many people suggesting why I shouldn’t get pylontech, Hubble seemed to be a problematic battery due to firmware issues which I do think may have been sorted out in the resent firmware update but I also don’t see people complaining to much about the pylontech batteries regardless if they locally made or about lack of after sales service. please understand that I’m not trying to bash Hubble because to be honest I know jack sh1t, I’m just trying to learn about the battery and why the people that bought them love them and the people that haven’t bought them don’t feel the need to have them and still suggest pylontech. edit: also I have followed the Australian battery testing and pylontech seemed to have done pretty well with an estimate of 4800 cycles and a SOH of 60% Edited June 5, 2022 by Derek Ramos Quote
P1000 Posted June 6, 2022 Posted June 6, 2022 11 hours ago, Derek Ramos said: I know that Hubble is made locally I don't think they are - I believe they are imported as a complete unit. WJP 1 Quote
WJP Posted June 6, 2022 Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) @Derek Ramos Personally I think a 1-1.5C rating is a happy medium. The higher the C rating the more the manufacturers tend to pay in material costs. Ultimately this cost is your cost. A 3C rating is excessive/wasteful for static storage. A 3C cell is likely designed for mobile applications like public transport. A 0.5C & 1C battery could offer the same number of cycles if their design limits are followed. So 1C isn't necessarily better than 0.5C if you don't need the high current capability. Agreed Pylontech may have improved their internal build quality. During my discussion of the AM2 they were talking about LFP/LiFePO4 and not NMC cells. The Hubble batteries are produced offshore to their spec and design via a partner of theirs. Dell, Alienware, Ubiquiti & many others outsource their manufacturing to the likes of Foxconn. Seems to be a modern business practice. As far as I'm aware they have hired some good engineers with regards to the electronic design. Coming from the distribution industry myself I like the fact that they have multiple branches throughout SA where you can buy/return goods. With regards to their apparent firmware issues it's at least taken care of internally. The BMS is their own design so it's easier to resolve problems, add features & support for new inverters. The same can't be said when you use a 3rd party BMS. It's at the heart of the solution so why outsource that? I have no brand allegiance personally. Within my own limited budget I'm searching for the best buy. At this time and given what I currently know I'd buy a Hubble AM2 or multiples thereof. *not a doctor, batteries not included, may cause anal leakage. Edited June 6, 2022 by WJP Quote
P1000 Posted June 6, 2022 Posted June 6, 2022 1 hour ago, WJP said: During my discussion of the AM2 they were talking about LFP/LiFePO4 and not NMC cells. Not sure what exactly you are saying here, but the Hubble AM2 is NMC. Quote
Derek Ramos Posted June 9, 2022 Author Posted June 9, 2022 @WJB@P1000thank you for your response. Much appreciated Quote
Derek Ramos Posted June 9, 2022 Author Posted June 9, 2022 On 2022/05/22 at 12:29 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said: 10x 540watt Jasolar split 5xEast 5xWest, nice even spread of power throughout the day, production a bit lower during winter due to east west orientation. @WannabeSolarSparkyhow much power do you generate on your best and worst day from the 10 panels? On 2022/05/22 at 12:29 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said: My whole house excluding the stove runs off the inverter 24/7, geyser is on an automated sonoff tasmota switch to only run in the afternoon after the batteries get to 100% soc. I must add that it is just my wife and I, and we do not use a lot of power. With regards to the sonoff. Does your geyser run on your essential side of the inverter and then you have set a time on the sonoff switch to allow power through once your batteries are charged. But if you don’t have enough solar power then the geyser will eat into your batteries supply? im asking because this is abit confusing. Do you have to monitor your solar production constantly in order to switch on your geyser? And your stove doesn’t run on solar at anytime regardless if you have enough solar power. I thought that your stove and everything would run on solar during the day and then when there isn’t enough solar it would draw from the power supply. basically I’m worried about eating into my batteries with the geyser if there isn’t enough solar. I can’t quite find the answers on exactly how the sunsynk inverter works. regardless I’ve already bought the 8kw inverter, will arrive next week due to stock. And at this point I’m leaning towards 4x pylontech us3000c but still haven’t made up my mind and I’m also struggling to figure out how many solar panels I need. I’ve been at this for weeks and all this information is mind blowing, Quote
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