blackhole Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Thanks for the reply Superdiy, The reason im opting for the Axpert is because of the parallel option as well as the price..Does Infinity have a 5 KVA model? Also what is the rec. resale price of the 4KVA Infinity INverter? Regards Quote
Wetkit Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Ok, just to clear up a couple of things here... Bi-Directional, Hybrid and UPS have to be connected in-line to the load and the supply. (Physical break in the line) So, if you have a 3kva unit, the max load you can run through it is around 3kva. Also, some UPS units, is not on-line, meaning they only switch on and run from battries and solar when the mains supply is off. These units will not save you power, like a hybrid or by-directional unit can. Gridtie can be connected anywhere on your system. The unit can only deliver according to its size, say 3kw, or how much solar is available at any given moment. So, if your house draw 6kw and your gridtie deliver 3kw, you will only draw 3kw from Eksdom. Quote
superdiy Posted February 2, 2015 Author Posted February 2, 2015 Ok, just to clear up a couple of things here... Bi-Directional, Hybrid and UPS have to be connected in-line to the load and the supply. (Physical break in the line) So, if you have a 3kva unit, the max load you can run through it is around 3kva. Also, some UPS units, is not on-line, meaning they only switch on and run from battries and solar when the mains supply is off. These units will not save you power, like a hybrid or by-directional unit can. Gridtie can be connected anywhere on your system. The unit can only deliver according to its size, say 3kw, or how much solar is available at any given moment. So, if your house draw 6kw and your gridtie deliver 3kw, you will only draw 3kw from Eksdom. BUT, the Infini (and one other I found) has separate mains in and mains out connections. The grid is connected to the "IN" terminals and the load to the "OUT" terminals, like a standard UPS system, BUT the Infini can be configured to supply to the grid (grid tie) when enough pv power is available - the feed in to the grid goes via the "IN" terminals. The added bonus here is that if the grid fails, the inverter works like a UPS drawing from pv and/or battery and still supplies the load - other standard GTIs cannot do this - they switch off when the grid fails. Quote
Willem Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 That's where the infini plus 5kVa looks really attractive with a 5kw pv input and a 7.5kw combined output... Mike did mention that the infini plus 3kw unit can combine the 3kw solar/battery power with 3kw more grid power to supply a total of 6kw combined power if I understood correctly. If it's true then it would at least help to not limit the available power to 3kw because of the unit sitting in line. The nice thing as mentioned is indeed that with this hybrid system when the grid goes off it will simply continue to supply with what it has available... eg. solar or bats. Where as with the normal grid tied inverters you have to go abnormal routes to get power when the grid is off because they are designed as a grid tied systems... For me currently the infini plus 5kw unit looks like a nice option and cheaper than the SMA system I planned and almost bought... which was a SB 5000tl 21 + SMA Home manager (including 2 sockets) + SMA Energy meter + SMA Multifunction Relay for SB which would have added up to around R43k excluding any panels... ouch... Quote
blackhole Posted February 2, 2015 Posted February 2, 2015 Ok maybe last question for me to understand as well... Im planning to buy a 5kva MKS inverter (or any thing thats simmiliar) Does it do the following? (Im not concerned by pushing power back into the grid) Eskom power in so that the load can run from it? Is it intelligent enough so that the load will run from pv power during day (when all batteries is charged?) Practically no load during day time at home My plan is to add enough panels/batteries later so that the system will be able to operate off-grid. Is this possible? Tx for all replies... Quote
superdiy Posted February 3, 2015 Author Posted February 3, 2015 Ok maybe last question for me to understand as well... Im planning to buy a 5kva MKS inverter (or any thing thats simmiliar) Does it do the following? (Im not concerned by pushing power back into the grid) Eskom power in so that the load can run from it? Is it intelligent enough so that the load will run from pv power during day (when all batteries is charged?) Practically no load during day time at home My plan is to add enough panels/batteries later so that the system will be able to operate off-grid. Is this possible? Tx for all replies... Both the Axpert and Infini will do what you require, both can be configured in various ways to e.g.first use pv or first use the grid to charge batteries etc. etc. By default these inverters will supply the load with pv power first and draw power from the grid if the load requires more than what the pv panels can produce. Although the Infini inverters can be grid tied, they can also be configured not to feed back into the grid. You can start off with a few panels and add more at a later stage. Quote
Willem Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 That's where the infini plus 5kVa looks really attractive with a 5kw pv input and a 7.5kw combined output... Mike did mention that the infini plus 3kw unit can combine the 3kw solar/battery power with 3kw more grid power to supply a total of 6kw combined power if I understood correctly. If it's true then it would at least help to not limit the available power to 3kw because of the unit sitting in line. The nice thing as mentioned is indeed that with this hybrid system when the grid goes off it will simply continue to supply with what it has available... eg. solar or bats. Where as with the normal grid tied inverters you have to go abnormal routes to get power when the grid is off because they are designed as a grid tied systems... For me currently the infini plus 5kw unit looks like a nice option and cheaper than the SMA system I planned and almost bought... which was a SB 5000tl 21 + SMA Home manager (including 2 sockets) + SMA Energy meter + SMA Multifunction Relay for SB which would have added up to around R43k excluding any panels... ouch... I might have mixed up the infini with the imeon... Can the infini also deliver more than 3kw combined power? I just took a look at the spec sheets again and it's definitely mentioned that the imeon can deliver 3kw from dc (combination of solar and batteries) and add to that another 3 kw from the grid to deliver a peak power of 6 kw. So it's specifically mentioned that if the load stays under 6 kw then the imeon will work perfect. Wish they were a bit cheaper... Quote
Mike Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 The best price i can get on the imeon......collect and handover method is R33k exlc. i know the other guys are at R36950 excl. Also remember that by connecting an Axpert unit you would have to derate your breaker! the 5kva unit if i remember is max 50A NOT the 63A that you have from Eskom as well as the 3kw is derated to 32A. and yes you can use them as gloriefied UPS units, by coming in before your db and then suppling the db BUT first derate the line theninstall the inverter then to supply. Quote
Groenkaroo Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Hi I'm new to solar and also planning a 5 kw hybrid system. Except from my house I also want to run a small irrigation system supplied by a 1.1 kw submercible pump from my system. Seems like the 5 kw infini inverter with maximum input capability of 7.5 kw panels is a perfect fit for my requirements. Just a few questions. Why is it that most inverter suppliers have proper websites and brand there products according to the company name while the infini inverter is like a non branded product that is sold under different names by different companies? Most inverters have a 5 year warranty, what is the warranty on an infini inverter? It is much cheaper than the European products, do you think it is reliable? I don't want to replace it every few years. Further I don't see many European hybrid inverters on the market, except the Imeon. I like to pay a bit more up front for a quality product but it seems that inverter technology develops so quickly now that it is better to go for a cheaper option since you are probably going to upgrade in 5 years time. I would like to hear your comments. Quote
Steggo Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Good Day. Im also in a market for an 5KW Inverter as well. (Just received my 3KW Panels - going to use WetKit idea / option to do my own mount.) Question: Is there an 5KW Infini Solar available in South Africa? I have seen 3KW Inifini & rare.. 3Kw Infini Plus So far my the options are: 1) 5KW AXpert MKS Inverter - Looks good value. (Im not looking to export excess to Grid) 2) Imeon 3.6 Inverter (Multiple Input source PV + Grid + Bttery to provide 6KW Load output. 3) 3KW Infini Inverter - Preferred device but worry about 3KW Overload Load issue. 4) Personally I would like to look at getting 5KW Infinisol , but do not see it available anywhere ? (Can anyone confirm or seen or advise where to get them?) My only concern is the load issue especially there could be odd moment when too many thing could simultaneously run (eg. hair dryer , Iron , kettle , microwave) at unexpected moment - which is I would like to go for Imeon 3.6 (but due to pricing) the Axpert seems to have an overload protection feature which will switch / bypass to Grid to completely to manage to any full load. (as I understand it) Steggo Quote
Slayer69 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Hi Steggo, Though I don't sell any renewable energy equipment. I just wanted to comment on you "too many simultaneous items". I recommend reducing before producing! Like you mentioned a kettle! I've just embarked on my producing stage of energy, but before I did I made the following changes to my household. 1. Installed a solar geyser (though my geyser does use a 22w cycle pump between my flat panel and geyser) 2. Installed a gas hob (Started using my 9kg lp gas bottle on the 15th decemeber 2014 and so far I have used about 1/4 of the bottle) 3. throw away your electric kettle and get one for your new gas hob. (can recommend le cruset kettle) I've been keeping rough track on my household usage and during the day when I'm not there (when I would be benefiting from my panels) my house uses roughly 0.9kwh. The cost now becomes less to generate that amount and I still have 2.1kwh of usage that I could potentially use before I exceed my newly bought 3kw GTI. Regards, Slayer Quote
Mike Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 the 5kw Infini is still being tested and only due for release in the coming months.....sorry guys, got the info last night. I have taken my 3kw infini to 4.2kw, nothing stopped working Quote
Willem Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 You know what would have been super nice, if they added multiple low amp relays on the hybrids so that you can manage or switch contactors from the inverter but do it integrated with the software to set some conditions... You could for example name the channels and dedicate them to your pool pump, the chest freezer etc. to be able to increase self consumption before having to add batteries... Kind of the same with what you can do with the SMA home manager but have it integrated and then with the hybrid having the option to add batts aswell... I guess I'm still wishing or hoping to find something with the managing capabilities to that of the SMA system but with the possibility of adding batteries and maybe at a lower cost... but I'm quite confident that what I'm looking for is not yet developed in a single simple to operate package at a reasonable price... Mike do you think there is any chance of the 5kw infini making it to SA before June?? Quote
Steggo Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Hi Slayer69. Thanks the input I have been reducing as much as I could. I came along way I use about 10-12 Units for the day time and about 3 to 4 Unit in the evening. (Still room for more improvements.. Before I decide on the inverter, think I will get an Electricity monitoring device like an Radiant and check (simulate) out the full load to make an informed decision. My gut telling me that the ave / typical load output I believe should be way under 3KVA .... but as I said, what if you have a crazy / outof the norm day ... (for example, Using a power tool, Iron on.. , hair dryer etc.. just happen run at a given moment. It makes no difference even you spec your setup perfectly. or extra room space for typical day.. so I will either go with the Infini 3KW or 5KW Axpert MKS inverter. Imeon 3.6 is out of my budget. But sound like I should be getting the 5KW Axpert MKS (to make room of extra load output for those odd days) Mike: Cool that you able to hit 4.3Kw load on your Infini 3K (Im assumming you using the PLUS model and wonder if the same can be said about the Standard 3KW Infini) . Sound like you inverter is a gem computer CPU that can be easily (and safely) overclocked and run just fine. But surely is with a high load, Im sure it should have restarted your inverter. Anyway thanks for input thus far. And enjoy your weekend Quote
Mike Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 Hi steggo, so far i have overloaded the 3kwplus by 143%, nothing switched off beeped a bit until i reduced load.... i am happy so far, but i must say i cannot wait for them to send me the 5kw baby- for the in case scenario.. Quote
Steggo Posted February 8, 2015 Posted February 8, 2015 That is awesome Mike! Im sure these 5KW InfiniSolar is going to sell like hotcake once released (and hopefully reasonable priced Decision , decision... *sigh just a thought of quickly running three "high powered hair dryers" type at same time.. can kill the load quickly... 1 Best to get an Owl logging device. - check my main load. (plus run a a additional test or two) 2) If under or about close to 3KW , then I will seriously look at the Infini 3KW. but just thought now of a potential "Change Over" switch an Electrician can addon to the DB board for those "controlled" in case scenarios (like doing using high power tools / lawn mower/ hair dryer... as example --- when required ) (and ability to bypass Inverter should unit fail.). Then again manual intervention required here... Or wait and feel safe with 5KW infini inverter one time (catch.. unknown release date) ... (or go with the 5KW Axpert MKS now....as it readily and I dont plan to export anyway....) Enough blabbering Quote
Willem Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Steggo If you're looking for a medium range logging device you can also have a look at the current cost envir NET. You can monitor 10 different channels and log the data over internet or download to your pc. The only downfall with them is that they turn off when the power goes off because they don't have a battery, so then it throws you logging a bit deurmekaar... Will start running mine from an old computer ups. There is a place in the waterfront that sells them. It's not a brilliant product, there about a dozen things that they could have easily improved on the product to make it much better but in the end of the day it does the job for a fraction of the cost of the expensive loggers. Quote
Steggo Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Hi Willem. Thanks for your input. Dont mind getting some interim cheap or second hand / loaned logger for initial load measuring... From the one Powertime website, I noticed the Current Cost envir NET going for R1700 (yikes!) and Owl wireless +usb radiant for about R799-R900 So not sure where the fraction of the cost kicks in unless the waterfront has an older model or something... If you dont mind me asking ... Where exactly in the waterfront is this place and what price can I expect for one? Quote
Willem Posted February 9, 2015 Posted February 9, 2015 Steggo I just deleted my whole reply... haha The current cost is maybe not the cheapest but they are in the cheap monitor category when you measure them against the high end prof. meters... that all that I meant. The normal current cost without the net connectivity ability goes for R1299 and the useless one that only shows the usage you get for R599 or for free when you buy some LED lights... Also you need to purchase the usb-serial cable seperately so the owl may be a more cost effective choice... I'm by no way telling you to get a envir as I suspect the owl may be a better device with better software etc., don't know. It was more telling what I'm using... Not sure if the owl can run multiple channels, if you want to run more than one channel on the envir the cost will start going up considerably as you need to get a exstra sender and clamp, so in the end it will cost the same to just get another trec monitor to monitor the extra channel and then just use the screen of the trec as a second display for your total use sender somewhere else where you would like to have it in you view... Do you live in cpt and what area? Quote
Steggo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Hi Willem No worries. I bought an Owl device and measured my home load output and done some stress (hair dryer , microwave and other appliance etc.. ) .. . So I am using the max power of 2.3Kw/h. however if I drill down to per minute, the maximum spike I have seen value 4.8KW I would love to go with the Inifini 3KW plus... but now it it seems Axpert 5K MKS is a better option from a load perspective. (support 5KW load output) (as it can also handle up to 10000KW Surge as well which is plenty for appliance startup) (also not planning to export excess energy due to City of Cape Town crappy net metering policy.. ) Infini 5KW is not available yet...*sigh* . and Imeon 3.6 sound ideal (support 6KW Load output) but not worth it from a cost perspective. Anyone with a objection or negative or tips I would be aware of for the Axpert product? Or possible other product I may has missed? Only thing I noticed 1) I cannot go series with PV panels with Axperts (needs to be parrallel / Series PV setup ) up so going to have purchase MC4 branch connectors etc... , unlike Infini PV it work in series. (Not a biggie..) and 2) Axpert it will need batteries..... Infini also require batteries in loadshedding / off grid mode.... (but it can function without Batteries in Grid Tie mode I suppose..) Mike: I know you mentioned something about specific derate the breaker perspective. Is that on the Load output side only? Regards, Steggo Quote
Steggo Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Darn.. I misread the spec Axpert of 5KW... ... Meaning it 5VKA = 4000W I suppose I could use the Overprotection feature... It will run the Bypass - Line mode to make up for it? Does anyone know if this Axpert is noisy in a room? Quote
viceroy Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I've been watching thread for a while now, and have decided to go with two Axpert MKS 5kva inverters in parallel before the DB board. Will be adding to this either 8 or 12 120ah batteries configured for 48v, and six 300w panels (for now). Geyser element will be replaced with a titanium element and I'll be adding vacuum tubes in a split system configuration to lower consumption further. Still undecided on going to a gas hob, but that might come sooner than later. In addition, will be installing a 2500l water tank and pump for those regular water interruptions we have. Only problem now is sourcing the inverters for a decent price, but I should have them before the end of March (I hope). Quote
superdiy Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Just an update... I got myself an Infini 3KW Plus and 12 x 250W Trina Solar panels. I'm currently busy preparing and securing the mounting hardware for the panels since I have a non-standard installation which requires quite a bit of additional work, but I'll post some pictures when I'm done. Quote
Willem Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 superdiy Please do post some pictures and keep us updated on the performance etc. Just for interest sake, what is you daily electricity use and what are you looking to cover with this setup? Planning to run any batteries with the infini or just solar for the start? If I remeber correctly you allready have a batt bank?? Or I'm confusing you with someone else... I'm about where I think I'll get with electricity use being between 11 and 16 per day... just hoping the infini 5kw unit will get on the market... for now the money is waiting in the homeloan account to counter some interest... Quote
superdiy Posted March 3, 2015 Author Posted March 3, 2015 Willem Currently our average usage is between 12 & 15 KWh per day, but I've not decided exactly how I'm going to configure the Infini - might be grid-tied. I've got a 300AH battery bank on my current 3KVA UPS system which I will transfer to the Infini-setup. If I'm not going the grid-tie route I might configure the Infini to use battery power instead of the grid during the night (or part thereof). So many possibilities with the Infini. Quote
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