Chris Hobson Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I have been asked to start a lithium batteries thread. Unlike lead acid my lithium experience is limited to the last month which hardly qualifies me as someone to start something like this. I however do like information catalogued so that I can refer back to it easily so on that basis I plough ahead and hope this thread develops into a resource with many contributors. I will use lead acid batteries (LA) as a reference point and assume that folk are familiar with them. What is Lithium? It is the 3rd lightest element and those of you who were the chemistry teacher nemesis at school will know it is highly reactive in both water and air and is usually stored in a hydrocarbon solvent. It readily sheds its 3rd electron and therefore its highly reactive nature. Lithium ion batteries are all similar in that their cathodes have a matrix of some lithium containing compounds and the lithium ion since it is so small moves in and out of this matrix allowing charge and discharge of the cell. There are numerous flavours of lithium ion but I think in the solar industry lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) has the biggest potential. Lithium iron phosphate (often called lithium ferrous phosphate to prevent the lithium ion/lithium iron confusion) is more stable and therefore safer than the other lithium ion batteries, has a greater cycle life and greater heat tolerance. Since it is charged to 3.65V rather than the more common 4.2V it has a lower specific energy not a huge problem with our stationary modules. Thermal runaway with LiFePO4 only happens >250°C whereas other lithium ion variants this temperature is a lot lower. There is a LA versus Lithium debate and this post is not about continuing the debate but to understand the beast one must make comparison to what is familiar. LiFePO4 batteries are like an AGM or Gel battery in that they are not vented – there is no giving off of gas. LiFePo4 batteries have a high charge and discharge rate and do not require a long tapered absorb and float phase. The sudden drop in charging from 30A to <2A is a clear indicator that the batteries are fully charged. My batteries in fact discharge slightly to balance the cells. Like LA batteries in theory LiFePO4 batteries should last forever but in our imperfect world LiFePO4 suffer from a process akin to sulphation. The electrolyte of LiFePO4 batteries contains LiFePO4 dissolved in an organic solvent. This precipitates out as a Li2CO3 layer on the cathode, reducing the availability of the active LiFePO4. This process is irreversible and speed up at elevated temperatures (>50°C). There is a fair amount of R&D to slow down this process. Unlike sulphation this is a process triggered by charging and LiFePO4 do not suffer from storage partially discharged like LAs do from sulphation. LiFePO4 batteries achieve nearly all their charging at about 3.3V/cell and the jump in SOC is from roughly 30% at 3.2V/cell to 90% and over at 3.3V. Since LiFePO4 batteries do not suffer from sulphation and overcharging has a negative influence on battery life some manufacturers cheat and do not fully charge the batteries thereby extending battery life for a small loss of capacity, a sensible trade off in my opinion. The biggest advantage to me besides the longevity of LiFePO4 batteries is the ability to “grow” your battery bank as the need arises. With LAs there is a problem with combining batteries of differing ages into a single bank. With LiFePO4 due to the Battery Management System (BMS) modules of differing vintages can successfully accommodated within a single battery bank. Thus one can grow one’s bank as the need arises or finances allow. I hope @plonkster, @Coulomb, @weber, @PurePower and others will add to this and correct any errors in my post making it a useful resource. SilverNodashi, Mark, pilotfish and 4 others 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 being a total ignoramus on the topic of lion batteries, but obviously very interested in the topic, i present this link, i am sure we could benefit from elon musk's presence on this forum, but then again he is a busy man... Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 hours ago, gabriel said: he is a busy man It's a bit more than that. He was apparently bullied a lot at school. He later moved to another school, but it was only marginally better (or something like that). He left the country as soon as he could, when he was only 17. His old high school (the better one) later needed money for some project at school and they contacted him hoping to get a donation. They got their donation, along with a note that he doesn't want to hear from them ever again. I think it is fair to say that he left for good. Which brings up an interesting sideline topic, especially for those of us who may have been bullied ourselves, or now have kids in school with the same ever-present danger. Boys will be boys as they, say, but sometimes you lose someone great that way. Chris Hobson and Mark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, plonkster said: ... kids in school with the same ever-present danger ... It has become and epidemic. And the all ever cellphones on social media, a sickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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