I just had a chat with a friend of mine who wants to add panels on a 2nd string to his Deye 8kW. After pointing out that 4xCanadian with STC Vmp=37.9V(650W) is cutting it to fine from a starting point of view. His other choice is 580W with Vmp=34.5V.

He had a chat with his new installer in VDBP who indicated based on my calculation the installer comforted him as he has never heard of a starting Voltage that must be above a specific level. The bad part is if these 4 panels don't start he has no space for a 5th panel. A risky way to part with R16000.

This follows when he measured the N to E voltage as 130V his installer who installed the system does not think it is serious. This installer indicated if he does not get shocked in the shower then all is fine. 

Also this installer wired 4 panel East and 2 West in series on the 1st MPPT due to space being limited. 

All I can say is those that want to install systems get references to lower the risk. 

I am doing all these courses over the next few months starting with basics and working my way through the whole lot and I am not even an installer.

https://pqrs.co.za/our-courses/

Many of these people are in it for a quick buck and could not even be bothered with brushing up their skills/knowledge.

 

1 hour ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

I am doing all these courses over the next few months starting with basics and working my way through the whole lot and I am not even an installer.

https://pqrs.co.za/our-courses/

Many of these people are in it for a quick buck and could not even be bothered with brushing up their skills/knowledge.

 

The scary thing is the 2nd person I mentioned is one that issues COCs while some of the other my friend consulted only does installations and then get this guy to sign off. 

2 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

I am doing all these courses over the next few months starting with basics and working my way through the whole lot and I am not even an installer.

https://pqrs.co.za/our-courses/

Many of these people are in it for a quick buck and could not even be bothered with brushing up their skills/knowledge.

 

Somethin really to look forward to. Please give us feedback on wether these courses met your expectations and wether it was  value for money.   And what level of electrical background would  help, if any . 

EDIT: if you attend them all, youll have change name  GuruSolarSparky.  😁

 

Edited March 20, 20232 yr by BritishRacingGreen

4 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

EDIT: if you attend them all, youll have change name  GuruSolarSparky.  😁

Hahaha - yeah - I like that idea 🥰
I have had many friends ask for advice and assistance so I am considering starting a consultancy to help people navigate through all the pitfalls and scams with going solar so a bit more knowledge behind my real world experience will go a long way to providing even better advice and assistance.

1 minute ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

Hahaha - yeah - I like that idea 🥰
I have had many friends ask for advice and assistance so I am considering starting a consultancy to help people navigate through all the pitfalls and scams with going solar so a bit more knowledge behind my real world experience will go a long way to providing even better advice and assistance.

I was wondering why a member with the knowledge and tech you already expose on this forum, would want to attend these courses. 

Thats a excellent  attitude, trust me, i am semi-retired and still an aprentice in many things electrical. And so be it, it gives me purpose. 

Sneak Peak, you saw it first on @Scorp007 's post on the powerforum 😉

15 minutes ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

Sneak Peak, you saw it first on @Scorp007 's post on the powerforum 😉

Thanks for sharing here 😃😃😃

Eish guys, it's a clash of two things here. The massive need to rollout solar infrastructure & the massive knowledge gap of how this equipment is integrated together. 

In my opinion there are 3 types of installers. 

1) The bandit who wants to make a quick buck & get away with murder. 

2) The electrician type who understands the AC side very well but has some ignorance & shortcomings on the DC side & inverter & interfacing side. 

3) The good blend of Good knowledge in all areas of AC/ DC as well as system integration. 

I think there is massive scope for consultancy in the ins & outs of good outcomes in the solar installation market in SA. I hate to see anyone pay school fees or be robbed. 

 

11 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

The scary thing is the 2nd person I mentioned is one that issues COCs while some of the other my friend consulted only does installations and then get this guy to sign off. 

Probably also does COC's for estate agents. Your friend needs to report him to the Dept of Labour.

5 hours ago, Steve87 said:

Eish guys, it's a clash of two things here. The massive need to rollout solar infrastructure & the massive knowledge gap of how this equipment is integrated together. 

In my opinion there are 3 types of installers. 

1) The bandit who wants to make a quick buck & get away with murder. 

2) The electrician type who understands the AC side very well but has some ignorance & shortcomings on the DC side & inverter & interfacing side. 

3) The good blend of Good knowledge in all areas of AC/ DC as well as system integration. 

I think there is massive scope for consultancy in the ins & outs of good outcomes in the solar installation market in SA. I hate to see anyone pay school fees or be robbed. 

 

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly 😁

@Superfly  Well, I too am not 'academic' enough to understand the regs.  I only have a B.Eng and will NEVER understand the regs.

FIRSTLY, I don't have the "regs".  That is the first problem.  The regs should be handed out like flyers at a street corner.  Not be hidden behind a pay-wall !!!!   EVERYONE should be able to download them for FREE without even needing to register with their name.  

There are many people on this forum that have a fair knowledge of the general science but not enough capability to do an installation themselves.  So a system is installed by a "bandit" and even the client notices things which don't "feel" right. But nothing is said, as they are unsure of themselves and they think the professional must be right.  If a person like that had the "regs" he could expand his already fairly good general knowledge and then address the bandit with vigor and say - hey, look here, regs say so-and-so, you do this job properly or you will not get paid.

SECONDLY, the regs are stupid.  They want me to fit TWO fuses to my battery.  In other words, they want me to connect two fuses in series.  And these are not R 10 fuses either.  From an engineering point of view, that is just silly.  Not to mention the regs stopping me from placing AC and DC wires into the same conduit.  The same wires that zig-zag all over the place inside cheap inverters, or are nicely bundled and tightly zipped, in expensive inverters.  Or washing machines, or fridges, or microwaves, etc.

I don't have a problem with safety.  I like being safe.  But governments and their agencies must go to H_E_L_L when they want to over-regulate in the name of "safety", and at the same time turn a blind eye to sewer systems collapsing and 100s of other SERIOUS health damaging threats from RF radiation to GMOs and all the general poison that is allowed to be sold as "food".  And that is just the obvious stuff, let's not dwell deeper into other WEF and Schwabian fun ideas.

The public has been lied to for decades, led up the garden path by governments and their agencies. NOBODY in government is interested in people's health and safety.  The opposite is true !!!!!!!!!  We  ***STILL*** have a DA politician in the WC talking about "safe and effective" (!)

The "regs" should not be an attempt to protect an idiot.  An idiot can ask more questions than the wisest man can answer.  Similarly, an idiot is able to do the most idiotic things that a Billion Dollars worth of "protection" will not prevent.  So rather than  worry if I use one fuse or two in series, make it a requirement to have a basic info sheet and wiring diagram at the main DB, informing of the particular solar/inverter system installation.  This should be a prerequisite for obtaining a COC.  Currently, all the muck is hidden behind 10 trunkings.  "Bo blink en onder stink."  The bandit has long left the country and now someone else needs to try and figure out what is going on.  A well structured template for my required info-sheet/diagram would go a long way to inform, save time and money,   THAT would make sense to me.

 

3 hours ago, Superfly said:

I think a lot of electricians are just not 'academic' enough to understand the regs - thus the cowboys...surely there has to be  a renewable accreditation based on current regulation?  Otherwise anyone registered in 1920 can sign off a COC.

 

Electricians are not just electricians. They have specialities. I know a guy who is an electrician and who has a wireman's license (or is it certificate? ). I asked him to do a COC, he said no. He said he's an industrial electrician, specialising in heavy duty machinery and the circuits that power that machinery. He said there is quite a bit of overlap between what he does and what I'm asking him to do, but sorry, he's not in the COC game. 

All fair enough, and I wish more guys in all sorts of lines of business would be that straight up. 

Edited March 21, 20232 yr by Bobster.

1 hour ago, Modina said:

The "regs" should not be an attempt to protect an idiot.  An idiot can ask more questions than the wisest man can answer.  Similarly, an idiot is able to do the most idiotic things that a Billion Dollars worth of "protection" will not prevent.

My favorite quote from this thread so far

9 hours ago, Bobster. said:

I asked him to do a COC, he said no. He said he's an industrial electrician, specialising in heavy duty machinery and the circuits that power that machinery. He said there is quite a bit of overlap between what he does and what I'm asking him to do, but sorry, he's not in the COC game. 

This is similar to to a friend that asks you to fix his slow laptop and wants to pay you R200 for your effort even though you have a BSc Hons degree and it would take a whole afternoon of your time. I am pretty sure that electrician could sign off a COC, but would you be prepared to pay R5000 for his time and travel expenses to double check the wiring of your house?

8 minutes ago, iiznh said:

This is similar to to a friend that asks you to fix his slow laptop and wants to pay you R200 for your effort even though you have a BSc Hons degree and it would take a whole afternoon of your time. I am pretty sure that electrician could sign off a COC, but would you be prepared to pay R5000 for his time and travel expenses to double check the wiring of your house?

No extra travelling when he/she installed the inverter. The COC is meant to ensure the installation is save and to the code and not getting 130V between N and E. 

Based on the tests that need to be done this R200 COC is some kind of fraud. More so if the COC is signed in the office and never even close to the building. 

8 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

The COC is meant to ensure the installation is save and to the code and not getting 130V between N and E. 

I was told by an electrical engineer who is also an installer that this is not a requirement of a COC. Its an optional extra according to him lol.

23 hours ago, Peter V said:

Probably also does COC's for estate agents. Your friend needs to report him to the Dept of Labour.

The very bad reality is he says but this guy knows what he is doing and I don't. He won't question him on anything. Even pointing out the danger from my side with 130V between N&E in battery mode. Very sad indeed. 

@Superfly

You are spot on as a lot of the know how of PV systems you have to study or be trained. Just take one point. How panels react when in series or parallel and different sizes a lot of them have no clue of the result. 

Edited March 22, 20232 yr by Scorp007

In defence of electricians and qualified electricians  their forte is not DC and Solar Energy systems. 

While we all, installer & electrician & engineer, are responsible, and even liable, the lack  of laws/regulations for dc solar and enforcing it, is the authorities at fault. We do what we do best.   I am excluding the flybynight here, he is just criminal by nature. 

If there is no speed restriction on the highways, guess what.

Edited March 22, 20232 yr by BritishRacingGreen

I think the worst thing is the why the Regulation is written. Nobody can agree to what it is actually saying/meaning and people read it differently. It should be written in such a way that "normal" people can also read it and understand what is or isn't required. It should also be available to everybody so that home owners can read it and see that everything is up to specification and comply. I also agree that a Electrical drawing is more worth than any amount off trunking or lack their off. Any Electrician that has had the opportunity to do fault finding on a system without a drawing knows the frustration. 

2 hours ago, BritishRacingGreen said:

If there is no speed restriction on the highways, guess what.

Sensible people will just drive a sensible speed. Those with enough money to buy fuel will drive faster. Germany's highways with those stretches where there are no speed restrictions are an example.