Gabriël Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 i have 4x250ah 12v sealed gel batteries [Gelled Thixotropic electrolyte] in series. they started working about may 2017. during december 2017 i noticed 1 battery [nearest to axpert 5kv] having 10.1v when charging whilst the other three were at 13.1v. i uncoupled all and switched to the grid whilst sorting the warranty issue. they say 'cause i tampered with the units [installing shunt for bmv702 which in effect changed the length of the cables] the warranty is void... so whilst i look at this warranty story - your comments are welcome - i need to get another unit as i don't really want to throw money into the bottomless pit called eskom. please assist present battery spec sheet attached God bless g 250ah sonic battery specs.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, gabriel said: i have 4x250ah 12v sealed gel batteries [Gelled Thixotropic electrolyte] in series. they started working about may 2017. during december 2017 i noticed 1 battery [nearest to axpert 5kv] having 10.1v when charging whilst the other three were at 13.1v. i uncoupled all and switched to the grid whilst sorting the warranty issue. they say 'cause i tampered with the units [installing shunt for bmv702 which in effect changed the length of the cables] the warranty is void... so whilst i look at this warranty story - your comments are welcome - i need to get another unit as i don't really want to throw money into the bottomless pit called eskom. please assist present battery spec sheet attached God bless g 250ah sonic battery specs.pdf It's gonna be a tough one to convince them that your "enhancement" didn't cause a warranty fault. Is it the battery connected to the - or the + of the inverter that's giving problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 24 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said: Is it the battery connected to the - or the + of the inverter that's giving problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, gabriel said: ... they say 'cause i tampered with the units [installing shunt for bmv702 which in effect changed the length of the cables] the warranty is void... Sounds to me someone has no idea how it all works and is trying to get out of a warranty issue. Why? Battery warranties are a sticky issue at best of times, so they may have to carry the warranty out of their pocket or some such. If they were clever, they could have blamed charging issues. Interesting to note, when you check the water in the T105RE's, that same battery as per your sketch of 10.1v, always has cloudier water than the rest. I am supposed to swap mine around every few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: warranties are a sticky issue at best of times and i don't really feel like spending thousands on documentary proof and ending up in the small claims court... time, energy, money, life... eish; do we have to fight all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 ok, so worst case scenario - if the unit has to be replaced and i can't get the identical unit, what are my options oh oracles of the ether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 1 hour ago, gabriel said: cause i tampered with the units [installing shunt for bmv702 which in effect changed the length of the cables Oh FFS... that is complete BS. The length of the cable has nothing to do with it, especially if there is only one string. Whether you have 2 meters of cable on each side, or 3 meters on the one side and 1 meter on the other side, the total length of cable the electrons have to traverse is 4 meters. The equal length thing is only an issue when there are parallel strings involved and then it applies only to the cabling that make up alternate electron paths. Wherever there is just one place for the electron to go (no forks in the road) none of that applies. And that is not even mentioning that they blame it on a shunt made by someone who probably knows this stuff better than they do that is also installed in thousands of systems all over the world. Ahem. Gabriël and Chris Hobson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, plonkster said: Oh FFS... that is complete BS. I was going to post but honestly get tired of the BS. Plonky to the rescue. Gabriel tell your supplier he has got the the Powerforum prize for the least informed solar installer for Feb. He can collect his prize in Surrey Park on Saturday evening. Gabriël, ibiza and ___ 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 the installer informed me he would replace the unit... maybe he has stumbled upon the forum - i once mentioned it to him... tx guys! Chris Hobson and ibiza 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I tend to use obscene language sparingly, for obvious reasons, but also because it has more effect when you do have an outburst :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 On 2/26/2018 at 1:21 PM, gabriel said: So it's not the negative side, as that's normally the one going first. Why? Electrons flow from Negative to Possitve. In a DC circuit, total cable length doesn't matter that much - within reasonable limits. A 25mm wire, at 25degrees celcius has a 0.01V drop at 1M (give or take). I am guessing they're trying to use legal mumbo jumbo to get out of replacing a faulty battery, which they can neither prove or disprove. Adding a shunt would have increased the total length by a few centimeters, or rather, millimeters. Not nearly enough to cause a 3V drop. I am sure the CPA would easily make them repair, replace, or refund your faulty battery in this case. Unless you really did hack it open with a screw driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriël Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said: CPA the cpa is not of much use when something is older than 6 months, and no, no physical damage BUT the spec sheet states: 8-10 year service life for 6 / 12 V NPS batteries and 15 -year service life for 2V NPS batteries... thanx for the other info silver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SilverNodashi said: So it's not the negative side, as that's normally the one going first. Why? Electrons flow from Negative to Possitve. It's a frame of reference thing. Electrons also flow from negative to positive for the battery next to it... and the same for the one next to that... there is nothing special about the bottom-most one in terms of the circle in which the electrons flow. It's the old "whether the chicken crosses the road or the road crosses the chicken depends on your frame of reference" thing. If someone can explain to me why that battery is special I'll change my mind :-) In cars I found that it is often also the one on the end, but that's because it is closest to the engine and gets more heat. In long 2V strings it is also the one on the end, but that too... I think is because that one runs cooler than the others. It is also possible that the ones on the ends get more mechanical stress because that is where the thick cables attach, the operator is bound to apply a little more force when tightening it down. But these are all just guesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 7:04 PM, plonkster said: It's a frame of reference thing. Electrons also flow from negative to positive for the battery next to it... and the same for the one next to that... there is nothing special about the bottom-most one in terms of the circle in which the electrons flow. It's the old "whether the chicken crosses the road or the road crosses the chicken depends on your frame of reference" thing. If someone can explain to me why that battery is special I'll change my mind :-) In cars I found that it is often also the one on the end, but that's because it is closest to the engine and gets more heat. In long 2V strings it is also the one on the end, but that too... I think is because that one runs cooler than the others. It is also possible that the ones on the ends get more mechanical stress because that is where the thick cables attach, the operator is bound to apply a little more force when tightening it down. But these are all just guesses. well I'm guessing as first point of entry, it does have a (albeit slightly) higher electron flow, which then gets broken down inside the battery - or rather, a chemical breakdown happens? I often see the negative pole of the first battery sulphating more than the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 5:59 PM, SilverNodashi said: So it's not the negative side, as that's normally the one going first. Why? Electrons flow from Negative to Possitve. I also noticed battery number 1 was the first to fail for me too. I think TTT is onto something here. I never swapped my batteries round as they weighed 75kg and they were in the corner of the room in an awkward battery box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said: I think TTT is onto something here You think? ... ok, maybe not always. More thoughts on the matter. All lead acid batteries are not equal. If they where, then balancers would not have required. Swap them around, is what I was advised. 2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said: ... they weighed 75kg and they were in the corner of the room in an awkward battery box. And idea, depending on a few issues, could have been to move the cables around, attach the cables same way as if you are moved them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 13 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said: An idea, depending on a few issues, could have been to move the cables around, attach the cables same way as if you are moved them around. Sjoe TTT you are showing me up badly here . That's not something I even thought of. In my defense the cabling all faced the wall (neater) but a bugger to work on. Won't make that rookie mistake again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 13 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said: And idea, depending on a few issues, could have been to move the cables around, attach the cables same way as if you are moved them around. That would be a neat test actually. If the battery at the end still fails more often, it's most likely temperature related. If the one in the middle (that is now electrically at the end) still fails... well then I still don't believe it! :-) I seem to recall that some French doctor proved that homoeopathy worked as well, and even when tested it did look as if there was a statistically relevant indication that it does... and it took bringing in one of the best professional sceptics (James Randy) and doing a proper blind test with the test setup in an envelope taped to the ceilling before they finally came to the conclusion that there was no effect at all. Gabriël 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris Hobson said: ... cabling ... Therein me me using the Brad Harrison connectors, for these reasons: 1) Can unplug things bloody fast - like if there are lightning or, more subtle reason, stupid activity being conducted by the owner of the equipment. 2) And averting the minor little issue of not allowed to mix pos and neg connections - late at night. 3) Using coloured connectors to differentiate between all the slap dash equipment that is standing all over the darn place after 6 years! One day ... Currently connectors are used between panels and controllers, controllers and batteries with battery to inverter pending. Wanted to crimp a 50mm2 cables with 175amp Brad Harrison connectors for I thought: "This thing of voltage droppings, like bird droppings, over 3m, is sommer twak!" ... but got sidetracked. One day ... Between the poles of the batteries the idea was to use single connectors, to be able to move batteries quick and without any tools near them poles and no fear of wires touching, why must one disconnect both sides I asked one day? Come, I will show you why it is a good idea. But then I lost interest ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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