Lithium battery suitable for a bus.

[Gandalf]

Hi Everyone 

A friend of mine has a big diesel bus that he converted into a camper van. He asked me to recommend a lithium battery that can withstand the vibrations during idling and off road bundu bashing.  I can only think of Sunsynk, but even then, I’m not sure. 
Does anyone have a better recommendation? 
 

Thanks guys. 

[Yellow Measure]

I am aware of a Hubble S-100 that was use to start a car, but never a bus, that will probably need 24V, so perhaps between two and four  Halo S-100s, dependent on current drain needs?

https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/batterys/products/halo-s100-12-8v-1-2kwh

[Bobster.]

21 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

Hi Everyone 

A friend of mine has a big diesel bus that he converted into a camper van. He asked me to recommend a lithium battery that can withstand the vibrations during idling and off road bundu bashing.  I can only think of Sunsynk, but even then, I’m not sure. 
Does anyone have a better recommendation? 
 

Thanks guys. 

This is not to run the bus but to power a fridge and some lights? Maybe look at these EcoFlow devices. That is exactly the application they are designed for. But cycle life isn't good, so I don't think you are going to get 10 or even 5 years life out of those.

[Yellow Measure]

OIC it's to run the camper part, not start the diesel motor 

[Gandalf]

5 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

to run the camper part, not start the diesel motor

Sorry guys, I wasn’t too clear about this. He wants to power an inverter with a few 220VAC items inside the camper. 

[Scorp007]

6 hours ago, Bobster. said:

This is not to run the bus but to power a fridge and some lights? Maybe look at these EcoFlow devices. That is exactly the application they are designed for. But cycle life isn't good, so I don't think you are going to get 10 or even 5 years life out of those.

I am not so sure a Ecoflow is meant to work day in an out being off grid. For starters the fridge might use all of the storage during the night. For me they are fine for an odd hour here in there. 

Some makes they specifically mention that you should not charge it 24/7 and try and use it as a UPS. 

[Scorp007]

6 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

OIC it's to run the camper part, not start the diesel motor 

Just out of interest you need upwards of 3-400A to start a 2L and higher capacity diesel engine. Few lithiums will make it within the manufacturer specs. 

[Modina]

Gee guys, you are running away with this.  @Gandalf was only asking about a Lithium battery that is able to take vibrations.  Maybe his bundu bashing friend already has an inverter.  Now you offer him plastic integrated inverter boxes with handles (put there for easy disposal when it dies) and batteries nobody has seen or knows where to buy replacements.  You are putting a lot of words into his mouth.   Or is it the cart in front of the horse.
 

@Gandalf I am an idiot when it comes to batteries....  Lead Acids have a terrible time with heat and vibration.  They contain heavy plates and the mountings of these can crack and fail under vibration.

Lithium batteries are firstly much lighter.  But the way I understand it, they are made from a few layers of polymer sheets that are rolled up into a cylinder.  See this link:  

So I think a Lithium battery's construction is inherently vibration tolerant.  Just make sure they stand in the way the manufacturer envisioned.  Don't mount them upside down or upright when no provision is made for such mounting. 

As to fridges, 24/7 charging, cranking current and what sort of inverter to use, you haven't asked, so I will not comment. 
 

[Scorp007]

2 hours ago, Modina said:

 @Gandalf
 

@Gandalf

So I think a Lithium battery's construction is inherently vibration tolerant.  Just make sure they stand in the way the manufacturer envisioned.  
 

Now with this in mind why would there be a condition that even 12V lead acid replacement lithium drop inn's are not allowed to be used outdoors. 

[Bobster.]

2 hours ago, Modina said:

Gee guys, you are running away with this.  @Gandalf was only asking about a Lithium battery that is able to take vibrations.  Maybe his bundu bashing friend already has an inverter.  Now you offer him plastic integrated inverter boxes with handles (put there for easy disposal when it dies) and batteries nobody has seen or knows where to buy replacements.  You are putting a lot of words into his mouth.   Or is it the cart in front of the horse.

This is a good point. All we really know is that someone wants to lug a battery around in a camper van. We don't know the intended use. Knowing that would help us help @Gandalf

[Scorp007]

23 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

This is a good point. All we really know is that someone wants to lug a battery around in a camper van. We don't know the intended use. Knowing that would help us help @Gandalf

Hi Guys. The intended use was spelled out 7 hours before this reply. Just look back. 

@Modina

It is not just a lithium battery that can handle vibrations. Be fair about the use. 

[Modina]

The intended use is to power an inverter with a few 220VAC items inside the camper.  So I read that as possibly already having ownership of an inverter.

Nobody here touched on the vibration issue.  Do you agree with my point regarding Lithiums and their much better suitability in such an environment, in general?

It would be helpful to at least know the required battery voltage.  Seeing that SunSynk was mentioned, I presume it must be for a fairly large system running on 48V.

I am now also going to venture beyond the battery.  I personally would be much more concerned that the inverter can handle the vibration.  My own Axpert inverter has a control PCB that is on a 0.8mm PCB substrate.  Normally PCBs are 1.6mm thick.  I don't know why on earth one would make the control PCB so thin.  It's not a cost issue.  Anyway, an Axpert inverter like mine would NOT, guaranteed NOT, survive constant vibrations.  I would go as far to say that all the hybrid inverters that we mention on this group are fixed use only and are not made to be lugged around on mobile jigs.  They might be OK for a tiny house being moved occasionally.  But we don't do that sort of thing in SA anyway.

For Bundu Bashing, the go to inverters would be Victron.  2nd option would be a very good quality inverter in those Aluminium extrusion profiles.  You do not want any equipment that has a number of PCBs mounted at right angles with connectors between them.  I spend many years in the defence sector and I often had equipment environmental tested - vibration & shock, heat, humidity, salt-spray, radiation, etc.

 

[Gandalf]

I don’t have all the info, but he has a 48v Victron inverter. I know there is an air conditioner, fridge, TV and induction cooker  inside the van. I’m not sure if the wattage, but I’m sure he would have sized it accordingly. All he wants is a lithium battery that can withstand the vibrations and bumps without cells coming loose inside. 

[Bobster.]

Freedom Won have a "marine" range which is (to quote their web site) "IP65 corrosion resistant designed for below deck marine applications, also suitable for general purpose mobile applications." They also invite potential customers to contact them to discuss requirements. One thing about this range that strikes me as useful is that they are wider than they are high, thus lowering COG and thus, I should think, standing up to bumps better.

I've also seen several 12V drop ins that are marketed as being suitable for marine or automotive applications. If you can drop one of these in 4X4 you should be away.  Your friend could call Maiden Electronics in Midrand and have a chat with them. They sell a wide range of batteries and have been in that game for some years.

[Scorp007]

28 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

I've also seen several 12V drop ins that are marketed as being suitable for marine or automotive applications. If you can drop one of these in 4X4 you should be away.  Your friend could call Maiden Electronics in Midrand and have a chat with them. They sell a wide range of batteries and have been in that game for some years.

Just like you I thought drop inn's can be used outdoors but one of the popular drop inn's has a T&C that it may not be used outdoors. Now does outdoors mean outside exposed to elements or movable exposed to vibration. If in a tent is it outdoors? 

Another local brand you can only used on approved inverters and installed by their approved installers. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Scorp007

[Gandalf]

5 hours ago, Bobster. said:

Freedom Won have a "marine" range

This sounds like a good idea, thanks for the advice. 

[phoenix752]

When it comes to off-grid power, Victron energy is unmatched. The best there is for off-grid and harsh environment power supply

[root]

I run a Linergy 100AH in the back of my Land Cruiser. Its got some 10mm closed cell foam padding the enclosure its in. Its still early days for it but it seems to be holding up well. My parents run a bank of conventional Prismatic LiFePO4 Battery Cells to make up a 24V battery bank in their RV (motorhome). The RV has a 24V Victron multiplus 2 3kW that runs on the bank without issues. Been in operation for a little more than 2 years and have done more than 15k km on European roads (its based in France).

My suggestion would be to build a custom bank from prismatic cells and pad the enclosure. These cells seem to be very hardy and also work in marine environments (yachts and sailboats).

Edited April 12, 2023 by root
spelling

[Scorp007]

2 hours ago, phoenix752 said:

When it comes to off-grid power, Victron energy is unmatched. The best there is for off-grid and harsh environment power supply

As long as you get a big trailer to store this Victron battery that is the size of a room   for 5.1kwh capacity

Edited April 11, 2023 by Scorp007

[Gandalf]

46 minutes ago, root said:

My suggestion would be to build a custom bank from prismatic cells and pad the enclosure

This also a good suggestion. I built a battery for a different friend of mine to go into his golf cart. It is coping very well.