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Synapse V3.0+ & Hubble S1-00 Charge Issue


RoannG

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Installed System: Synapse V3.0+ (3000VA/2400W), 24V inverter with 2x Hubble S-100 batteries in series.  Further to this a HA11 battery equalizer is installed.  PV: 2x 180W panels.

I use Solar Assistance to monitor the inverter, PV and batteries.  Also confirmed the voltages with a multi-meter.

Battery charge settings are:

Charge: Utility and Solar simultaneously 

Source: Utility as priority

Battery float charge voltage 28.0 V
Battery absorption charge voltage 28.8 V
 
Firmware:
U1 09 56
U2 03 39
 
It seems the inverter charger never reaches the bulk charge voltage of 28.8V and never exceeds 7.2Amps.  I have drained both batteries and connected them in parallell for a hour before connecting back to series and recharging.  A/C charge set to 25Amp with max charge to 60Amp.
 
I have tried to charge on solar & utility, utility only and solar only but cannot get the inverter to do a bulk charge.
 
After the charge has been completed, the batteries are at 28V, 100% SOC.  This is correct as per the hubble's recommended charge settings.
 
I have searched for inverter firmware updates, but no luck.
 
Any ideas what the problem could be, why i am not achieving a bulk charge?
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28 minutes ago, RoannG said:

Installed System: Synapse V3.0+ (3000VA/2400W), 24V inverter with 2x Hubble S-100 batteries in series.  Further to this a HA11 battery equalizer is installed.  PV: 2x 180W panels.

I use Solar Assistance to monitor the inverter, PV and batteries.  Also confirmed the voltages with a multi-meter.

Battery charge settings are:

Charge: Utility and Solar simultaneously 

Source: Utility as priority

Battery float charge voltage 28.0 V
Battery absorption charge voltage 28.8 V
 
Firmware:
U1 09 56
U2 03 39
 
It seems the inverter charger never reaches the bulk charge voltage of 28.8V and never exceeds 7.2Amps.  I have drained both batteries and connected them in parallell for a hour before connecting back to series and recharging.  A/C charge set to 25Amp with max charge to 60Amp.
 
I have tried to charge on solar & utility, utility only and solar only but cannot get the inverter to do a bulk charge.
 
After the charge has been completed, the batteries are at 28V, 100% SOC.  This is correct as per the hubble's recommended charge settings.
 
I have searched for inverter firmware updates, but no luck.
 
Any ideas what the problem could be, why i am not achieving a bulk charge?

What is the charge current when they reach 28V?

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First that synapse is overpriced and does not do what the specs say . 

It supposed to have an 1000w mppt controller . But the one installed in my perants in law's house does not charge more then 500w 20amps from pv so if you are running a fridge , pc and a light or 2 there next to nothing left for charging the battery . 

There's no firmware update that I can find .

I paid R8k for an inverter advertised and specs show 1000w mppt controller but never goes pasted 500w and on a hot day it when the inverters temp is around 40 Celsius it   reduces the charge to 10 amps  so don't expect much from this inverters charging abilities 

2 180w PV is a bit small for charging those lithium batterys . 

Edited by GMAC
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Thanks, i agree the PV is too small.  This is what i had and plan to expand a bit in the future.  It caters for my needs at the moment.

Yes, seems the charging is not as expected on the inverter.

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@Scorp007, very interesting indeed.  It can only be a charger issue then?  My 2x S-100's charged at >40Amps and bulk voltage on previous inverter.  Only now on the synapse that it is a issue.

Had good solar available today and also did not manage to go over 7.2Amps, 28V.

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2 hours ago, RoannG said:

@Scorp007, very interesting indeed.  It can only be a charger issue then?  My 2x S-100's charged at >40Amps and bulk voltage on previous inverter.  Only now on the synapse that it is a issue.

Had good solar available today and also did not manage to go over 7.2Amps, 28V.

Mine will charge at 40A if I set the inverter to do so. I have reduced it to 30A max. 

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6 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

Mine will charge at 40A if I set the inverter to do so. I have reduced it to 30A max. 

Have you confirmed this with a clamp meter?  Mine has a max grid charge current of 25Amps only, although it never reaches that.  Only 7.2-7.3 Amps...

Edited by RoannG
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On 2023/05/05 at 6:02 AM, RoannG said:

Have you confirmed this with a clamp meter?  Mine has a max grid charge current of 25Amps only, although it never reaches that.  Only 7.2-7.3 Amps...

Are you saying that it is only charging at 7.3A.dc or is it using 7.3A.ac from the grid while charging? Assuming it is DC charge current that you are referring to, so about 200w at full pressure (~28V). 

At that rate it will take almost 12 hours to charge the batteries from empty to full.

Try and set float and bulk voltage at the same level (28.8v), it is likely that the inverter goes to float voltage to ealy and it never actually reaches 28.8v. 

Have you measured voltage at the battery terminals during the charging stage to determine the actual voltage during both the constant current and constant voltage charge phases.

 Measure individual battery terminals and the terminals accross the bank to rule out poor wireing and crimping. The constant pressure (V) charge phase should be no longer than 15 minutes (give or take a few), so this is when you want to measure the charge pressure (V) to see it it stays at a constant 28.8V.

 

On 2023/05/04 at 11:11 AM, GMAC said:

First that synapse is overpriced and does not do what the specs say . 

It supposed to have an 1000w mppt controller . But the one installed in my perants in law's house does not charge more then 500w 20amps from pv so if you are running a fridge , pc and a light or 2 there next to nothing left for charging the battery . 

There's no firmware update that I can find .

I paid R8k for an inverter advertised and specs show 1000w mppt controller but never goes pasted 500w and on a hot day it when the inverters temp is around 40 Celsius it   reduces the charge to 10 amps  so don't expect much from this inverters charging abilities 

2 180w PV is a bit small for charging those lithium batterys . 

It is a cheap inverter and a clone as well. You get what you pay for. I used one for a year or two many moons ago, I understood its limitations when I purchased it so was happy with it in the end. The MPPT is rather inefficient, you will have to "overpannel" a lot to get the rated 40A DC charging current from PV alone.

 

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20 hours ago, I84RiS said:

Are you saying that it is only charging at 7.3A.dc or is it using 7.3A.ac from the grid while charging? Assuming it is DC charge current that you are referring to, so about 200w at full pressure (~28V). 

At that rate it will take almost 12 hours to charge the batteries from empty to full.

Try and set float and bulk voltage at the same level (28.8v), it is likely that the inverter goes to float voltage to ealy and it never actually reaches 28.8v. 

Have you measured voltage at the battery terminals during the charging stage to determine the actual voltage during both the constant current and constant voltage charge phases.

 Measure individual battery terminals and the terminals accross the bank to rule out poor wireing and crimping. The constant pressure (V) charge phase should be no longer than 15 minutes (give or take a few), so this is when you want to measure the charge pressure (V) to see it it stays at a constant 28.8V.

Yes, DC charge current.

I have  battery balancer with live viewing connected to the batteries at all times, so the voltages are correct eliminating bad terminations.  Also confirmed with a multimeter.

I can set the float and bulk to 28.8V, i doubt that this will change the charge current.  My guess is the different charge cycle times need to be changed somehow...

 

20 hours ago, I84RiS said:

 

It is a cheap inverter and a clone as well. You get what you pay for. I used one for a year or two many moons ago, I understood its limitations when I purchased it so was happy with it in the end. The MPPT is rather inefficient, you will have to "overpannel" a lot to get the rated 40A DC charging current from PV alone.

Agreed, i did not expect much, but was atleast hoping to achieve the advertised charged currents...

20 hours ago, I84RiS said:

 

 

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For the price as it not one of the cheapest cheap inverter at around R8k for an 2400w , I at least expected it to give 1000w from the mppt controller as advertised  from specs from 1400wats of solar panels..

 

 

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6 hours ago, GMAC said:

For the price as it not one of the cheapest cheap inverter at around R8k for an 2400w , I at least expected it to give 1000w from the mppt controller as advertised  from specs from 1400wats of solar panels..

 

 

Have you measured the string voltage with a multimeter when no current is flowing (open circuit) to rule out issues with panels or the wiring and mc4 connectors. If you have, was it in spec?

Also, how are panels wired? Seeing that the operating voltage of the MPPT is between 30V to 80V you are really limited in term of what panels you can use

Edited by I84RiS
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2 hours ago, I84RiS said:

Have you measured the string voltage with a multimeter when no current is flowing (open circuit) to rule out issues with panels or the wiring and mc4 connectors. If you have, was it in spec?

Also, how are panels wired? Seeing that the operating voltage of the MPPT is between 30V to 80V you are really limited in term of what panels you can use

My old inverter had a problem with the AC charging blow a component  but was pushing over 1kw from the PV  and so I sent it in for repairs and  bought the synapse to use in the mean time and it never gave more then 20amp 500w  from my solar PV panels and they were  4 330w 2p/2s at the time   and when I got my old inverter back and installed it got 1kw + from the PV 

My perants in-law had a 15 year old 5 kw 24v  transformer inverter not very affiant with pwm controller I gave the synapse to them as it's better than what they have but really not worth its cost and on there PV panels same 500w 20amps nothing more .

 

The open circuit is 84v but this inverter specs say 30 to 80v open circuit 102v so 84v should not be an issue and if it was an issue the mppt would have blown already .

No  problems  with the cables , plugs or panels as my old inverter generates 1kw + from the same panels the synapse was only giving 500w max 

IMG_20221112_131502.jpg

Edited by GMAC
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  • 2 months later...

@RoannG have you still got this inverter?

I have a very similar setup, Synapse 3.0V+ with 2 x 200Ah LiFePo4 batteries in series, an HA11 balancer, and the same firmware versions. I don't have PV yet. Have you had any issues with charging or the "early float" bug?

My charge settings are 28.4v for bulk, 27.0 for float - conservative as I would like to cycle the batteries but stay within 10-90% SOC to prolong their life.

Any tips are appreciated.

Edited by jbroo
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21 hours ago, jbroo said:

@RoannG have you still got this inverter?

I have a very similar setup, Synapse 3.0V+ with 2 x 200Ah LiFePo4 batteries in series, an HA11 balancer, and the same firmware versions. I don't have PV yet. Have you had any issues with charging or the "early float" bug?

My charge settings are 28.4v for bulk, 27.0 for float - conservative as I would like to cycle the batteries but stay within 10-90% SOC to prolong their life.

Any tips are appreciated

 

The synapse my parent in law has that is on gels when charging with solar it  has this horrible float bug almost every day even on a perfect day with out clouds from sun up in the morning  for the rest of the day .

When charging from grid no float bug . 

Don't know if it will still have the float bug on lithium batteries .

Good luck 

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34 minutes ago, RoannG said:

I ended up replacing my inverter and battery.  Could not get the bulk charge issue resolved.  All good now with the new setup.

 

It's sad to see some branded or clone not reaching good charge levels. 

Over the weekend my 3kVA charged at 45A to my 24V lithiums. S-100 and DIY 100Ah bank. This is over 1200W from a 1600Wpv connected. 

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