Dieter Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/497027-major-victory-for-home-solar-in-cape-town.html “From October 2023, all SSEG applications at the City of Cape Town will be treated as grid-tied systems. This means that all systems need a City-approved inverter and professional sign-off,” Van Reenen stated. I would like to know the reasoning behind this, safety concerns? Has something happened? Fly by night installers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, Dieter said: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/497027-major-victory-for-home-solar-in-cape-town.html “From October 2023, all SSEG applications at the City of Cape Town will be treated as grid-tied systems. This means that all systems need a City-approved inverter and professional sign-off,” Van Reenen stated. I would like to know the reasoning behind this, safety concerns? Has something happened? Fly by night installers? Yeah their statement is not very clearly explained at all. It almost looks like a knee-jerk reaction to the flood of applications they are receiving. It would be helpful for them to clarify that statement, as it is at the moment it is causing more confusion in an already confused installer market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobster. Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Dieter said: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/497027-major-victory-for-home-solar-in-cape-town.html “From October 2023, all SSEG applications at the City of Cape Town will be treated as grid-tied systems. This means that all systems need a City-approved inverter and professional sign-off,” Van Reenen stated. I would like to know the reasoning behind this, safety concerns? Has something happened? Fly by night installers? Isn't this explained in that article? ISTM that what they are doing is requiring any installation to include an inverter on their approved list and to be certified as correctly installed. That should speed up the approval process and also give them control of what is being connected to their grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 ... 29 minutes ago, Bobster. said: Isn't this explained in that article? ISTM that what they are doing is requiring any installation to include an inverter on their approved list and to be certified as correctly installed. That should speed up the approval process and also give them control of what is being connected to their grid. ...The only difference between Grid-tied and Off-grid installation , is Grid-tied needs additional Engineer sign-off, both need Electrical Diagram and COC Maybe the concern is about the "off-grid" inverters , Grid-tied you need an inverter that is on City's approved list Will we see a flood of "off-grid" inverters on the classifieds in Nov 2023 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HendrikBigChief Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Dieter said: ... ...The only difference between Grid-tied and Off-grid installation , is Grid-tied needs additional Engineer sign-off, both need Electrical Diagram and COC Maybe the concern is about the "off-grid" inverters , Grid-tied you need an inverter that is on City's approved list Will we see a flood of "off-grid" inverters on the classifieds in Nov 2023 ? Like all the Axpert inverters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magetsi Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 hours ago, HendrikBigChief said: Like all the Axpert inverters. most will apply now to beat the deadline. But I suppose some will be caught. But it never cease to amaze me that the City is unncessarily making it difficult to help ease eskom challenges on its residence. On one hand they making it easy and on the other they make it harder. WannabeSolarSparky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Dieter said: Maybe the concern is about the "off-grid" inverters , Grid-tied you need an inverter that is on City's approved list Will we see a flood of "off-grid" inverters on the classifieds in Nov 2023 ? That's exactly why I asked the question. They want people to register or get fined but then they change the rules and say all applications will be treated as grid-tie, so without proper explanations it seems like they excluding a ton of installations that are not grid-tie. They do mention that it excludes inverter trolleys, but they again do not clarify with proper definitions as many inverter trolleys these days are no different to non grid-tie installs. NOT THAT I CARE MUCH, I will never sell to the city of cape town until they come up with decent fees that make it worth the effort. zsde and Scorp007 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tariq Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 the inverters listed on the CoCT have had to pass NRS certification, whereas the Axpert type inverters don't have any certification, I think their biggest fear is that these inviters will feed back into the grid, when there is load shedding. The reason for grid-tie requirement is, that a lot of installers were using a loophole to bypass the engineer signoff, which obviously costs money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Tariq said: the inverters listed on the CoCT have had to pass NRS certification, whereas the Axpert type inverters don't have any certification, I think their biggest fear is that these inviters will feed back into the grid, when there is load shedding. The reason for grid-tie requirement is, that a lot of installers were using a loophole to bypass the engineer signoff, which obviously costs money Always someone spoiling it for everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisc Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 To be clear, if the system you have is Off-Grid (no possibility of feeding back power), does it still have to meet these requirements? My own system was installed in 2015 and approved at the time. There have been a few additions (more panels, different batteries). I did send 3 emails to CoCT but received no reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobster. Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, chrisc said: To be clear, if the system you have is Off-Grid (no possibility of feeding back power), does it still have to meet these requirements? My own system was installed in 2015 and approved at the time. There have been a few additions (more panels, different batteries). I did send 3 emails to CoCT but received no reply Well if we say our systems and thus our house are off-grid, we don't need a grid connection, do we? Which is the hard-assed view a municipality or Eskom might take. And once you're not connected to the grid, COCT/Eskom have no interest in what electrical arrangements you make. Reminds me of the early days of electricity. There were no standards. In Sussex there is Rudyard Kipling's house which is now a very good museum. Still in place is his generator. This was one of the first electrified houses in the UK. A river runs through the property. He had it diverted so that it would go through his generator shed and then fall a few feet, enough to turn a turbine which would charge some batteries. And so he had a few hours light each evening. Now all of that is rule out under this regulation and that regulation, plus the rivers now all belong to the nation and nobody may take potential energy from them without express permission. So you can see the generators and marvel at them, but they may not actually be run in any way that makes use of the stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, chrisc said: To be clear, if the system you have is Off-Grid (no possibility of feeding back power), does it still have to meet these requirements? I think the authorities have become at last a bit clever in realising that even modern offgrid inverters are actually nothing other than gridtie topology with zeroexport configuration. Case in point is Axpert MKS2 - 4. And depending on stability of function, or lack thereof, such machines may from time to time inadvertanty export some amounts of power to the upstream grid. Its technically possible for the machine to fail on the wrong side, and push large amounts of power onto that grid. So in their defense, they have grown wiser and acting accordingly. Edited June 25, 2023 by BritishRacingGreen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vector impedance Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 I think the authorities have become at last a bit clever in realising that even modern offgrid inverters are actually nothing other than gridtie topology with zeroexport configuration. Case in point is Axpert MKS2 - 4. And depending on stability of function, or lack thereof, such machines may from time to time inadvertanty export some amounts of power to the upstream grid. Its technically possible for the machine to fail on the wrong side, and push large amounts of power onto that grid. So in their defense, they have grown wiser and acting accordingly. An out of sync inverter trying to push electricity on the grid (while grid is on or off) is a butterfly flying into a bus. The inverter will either trip or fry within seconds. Bulshitt argument by city of cape town, doesnt say much about their technical skills. Unless is percetly in phase with eskom power, then no harm will be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiwatt Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 (edited) The reasoning behind the stricter control of inverters and installations is for the following reasons: 1) Eskom (COCT is just leading the way in terms of enforcement) want to ensure that all inverters connected to their grid meet certain minimum requirements in terms of safety but also in terms of power quality and grid control: Proven anti-islanding topology that makes feeding back into a "blacked-out" or "browned-out" grid impossible. I know of an instance here in Worcester where a lineman (luckily) measured 2kV on a line that was "isolated" and the culprit was a shitty 5 star inverter that back-fed into the grid. Rare but possible. Harmonics: Australia's grid is already seeing very high harmonic levels due to the large adoption of high frequency inverters. They are even deploying synchronous condensers to combat the effects. Shitty inverters have higher switching harmonics. Frequency Power control: In the future when PV plus inverter adoption is high (inevitable) Eskom needs a way of throttling this grid-connected power for a multitude of brands and locations. This can only be done by frequency shifting. By enforcing NRS097-2-1 standards the approved inverters have this safety feature readily installed. Logistical and practical bookkeeping of all systems: The city council needs a system that shows the location (in the garage/kitchen) and size (in kilo-Watt) of all installations. By using weather forecasting Eskom can ramp their turbines up or down depending on load and weather anomalies. In short: It is a matter of ensuring that whatever gets connected to their grid meets certain quality and safety standards. The technicalities of this falls outside the area of competence of an electrician and a junior engineer. There have also been a multitude of house fires caused by systems with a freshly written CoC. I have seen life threatening installations that have a CoC. Engineers registered at the ECSA was thus chosen to ensure this quality control. Sure, it certainly is an inconvenience, but at the rate PV is being deployed in the country it makes 100% sense from a grid operator's point of view. Feel free to contact www.multiwatt.co.za for sign-off and engineering assistance. Edited October 21 by Multiwatt Scorp007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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