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Thank you for the great forum, Safe Driving over the weekend. Sincerely Jason
Youda

Youda's off-grid LAB

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38 minutes ago, Youda said:

Hi @1Hallux

I had the similar ON/OFF solution some time ago, when I started flirting with the solar power. It worked exactly as you described, but I was a bit scared by all the cycles that it introduced in my lithium battery. Therefore, I switched to the SSR and continuous regulation, so I can have a good sleep at night :)

That is my thinking too. Wanting to eliminate the accumulated effect of mini charge discharge cycles on the battery by rather varying the geyser load.
And to leave spare capacity in the inverter for a human in the home to randomly switch on a load such as a kettle and not trip the inverter that will be running off grid

Edited by Power Me

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On 2020/01/06 at 4:53 PM, Youda said:

Pylon BMS has a special counter for State of Healt for each brick. It's published via CAN bus, so I'm 99% sure that Venus is just reading the value.

Technically, whenever Pylon BMS encounters an alarm, it decreases SOH percentage counter a bit. For example, when you discharge some cell(s) too deep, overheat etc. 99% SOH does not mean that the cells were damaged nor that their capacity is lower than nominal. It just says that something dangerous happened in the past.

Hi Youda,

I hope you can assist me with a question regarding the Pylon available AH.

I have 2 x US2000B connected to Infini 3K Plus inverter and the batteries are 1 year and 3 months old now with 96 cycles. The AH used to be 100AH when new, but for every 10 cycles the available AH decreased by 0.1AH.

At the moment the available AH is 99.10AH and will decrease again by 0.1AH when I get to 100 cycles.

The SOH is still 100%

1128671889_CapturePT2020_03_12.thumb.JPG.c8c959e985fa2ccbf19189c7e7fb7f67.JPG

Is this normal?

At this rate I will only get 2000 cycles before the batteries are at 80% of original capacity.

 

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On 2019/05/08 at 5:27 PM, Youda said:

Hi guys,

so, if you want to check the status of your Pylontech Phantom-S, US2000 or US3000, there's a great diagnostic tool for this called BatteryView.

*DISCLAIMER:
*Please note that with the information written below, you can effectively destroy your batteries, or invalidate your warranty.
*Do what you like, but I take no responsibility for your actions and results.

 

First, you have to create a Serial Console cable, as no such cable comes in the box with the batteries. Here's the wiring:image.png.250cb8b9b4d0e24377397057b97caa50.png

  1. Plug the RJ-11 connector of the cable into the CONSOLE PORT of the TOP BRICK of you battery stack. Just to be sure, the top brick is the one that have LinkPort0 EMPTY.
  2. Next, plug the cable into your laptop's serial port, or USB2Serial adapter.
  3. Launch the app and choose the serial port name according to your's laptop configuration. IE COM1, COM2, COM6...
  4. Baudrate is 115200.
  5. If you have more Pylon bricks stacked, then check the "Parallel" box and select the number of bricks that you have in a single stack.image.png.eb1ba127c9ac83b9507ad63bbd55acc7.png
  6. Click OK to connect to the BMS.
  7. If you did everything correctly, the app will scan all the bricks and will show you the operational parameters, like cell voltages, current, temperature, SoC...
  8. There's a couple more charts available under the "Windows" menu, like Voltage/Amps curve, etc.
    mainscreen.thumb.png.a070962fef7477935ce2b7cb805a86a2.png
  9. Be carefull, as this tool is used also for updating firmware. So, don't screw up your battery...

 

For the experts, there's even a possibility to open a CLI, where you can query much more detailed info.
You can SET the values, test the circuits, perform shutdown, etc.
This CLI is so powerfull, that it's actually scary.
cli.thumb.png.b8650f3cbcbba44597b227bda8bf3741.png

Well, if you're not a certified Pylontech expert, don't touch it, please!

 

ATTACHMENT:

BatteryView.zip 1.49 MB · 162 downloads

 

@Youda Sorry to bother you again,so I find good quality RS232 to USB converter (UNITEK)

Just want to make sure the pinout to the RJ11 is correct,that yellow wire that show not in used,pin 1,does it need to be connect? because I left it out,but still no coms on battery view

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46 minutes ago, Andries said:

@Youda Sorry to bother you again,so I find good quality RS232 to USB converter (UNITEK)

Just want to make sure the pinout to the RJ11 is correct,that yellow wire that show not in used,pin 1,does it need to be connect? because I left it out,but still no coms on battery view

 

Yes @Andries, that picture is correct. I've just checked the cable with the multimeter.

Keep in mind that COLORS are not important, as they can differ based on the vendor of the cable.
Just follow the wiring:

  • The RJ-11 have to be the one with just 4 golden contacts, not 6.
  • PIN1 is not used
  • PIN2 leads to DB9 PIN3
  • PIN3 leads to DB9 PIN2
  • PIN4 leads to DB9 PIN5

DB9 connectors have small numbers imprinted directly on them. You can't mess-up this part.

And here's the more obvious picture for you:

 

image.png.57c867a5faa8fcc46e10bd30017318aa.png

 

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25 minutes ago, Youda said:

 

Yes @Andries, that picture is correct. I've just checked the cable with the multimeter.

Keep in mind that COLORS are not important, as they can differ based on the vendor of the cable.
Just follow the wiring:

  • The RJ-11 have to be the one with just 4 golden contacts, not 6.
  • PIN1 is not used
  • PIN2 leads to DB9 PIN3
  • PIN3 leads to DB9 PIN2
  • PIN4 leads to DB9 PIN5

DB9 connectors have small numbers imprinted directly on them. You can't mess-up this part.

And here's the more obvious picture for you:

 

image.png.57c867a5faa8fcc46e10bd30017318aa.png

 

@Youda Okay tested with multimeter and so on,my pinout is not the same,so no2 that suppose to be green is Red,pinout 3 is green,tested it with multimeter again,and so I connected it now 2min ago,freaking awesome! thanx for all your help,I really do appreciate!

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On 2019/11/17 at 12:03 PM, Youda said:

How to charge your Pylontech US3000 and why

From time to time, there's a discussion on Pylontech US2000/US3000 batteries and what is the best charging voltage for them. So, here's the answer based on my personal experience:

C.C. = 52.5V
C.V. = 52.0V

 

Why:

First of all, it's important to clarify what the term "charging voltage", sometimes referred as C.C. aka constant current, means. It's NOT the voltage that's being created by the charger and then applied to the battery terminals. In reality, the charger just pushes current into the battery, while constinuously measuring the voltage on the terminals. Once the voltage reading on the terminals is equal to the value that's set as charging voltage, the charger stops pushing current. Then, based on the selected charging profile, the charger goes in the next stage, like C.V. aka constant voltage, for example.

If the C.C. voltage is set too high, the charger will continue to push the current in the batteries for too long. The voltage will rise above the safe level for that given battery chemistry and the cells will overcharge, swell and take damage.

In order to protect the cells, US3000 has a balancer for each individual cell and a MOSFET for each brick. Once the voltage of the individual cell goes above 3.480V, the balancer will kick-in and start to burn the excessive current, turning the electric energy into heat. That's the way how US3000 ensures that at the end of charging all the cells have equal voltage, in other words "are balanced". Of course, cell balancers are not powerfull enough to burn all the energy that might be potentially pushed by the charger. That's the reason why there's a MOSFET in the battery pack. If all the balancers are already burning energy and the charger is still pushing energy, then the MOSFET will limit the current in order to protect the pack.

 

In the specsheet, Pylontech recommend to set the charging voltage somewhere between the 52.5V to 53.5V:

 

image.png.9fdc7cccf883f0bc29d2a03544f9f58e.png

There's 15 LFP cells in each US3000 pack and balancers are starting at voltage 3.480V per cell: 15 x 3.480V = 52.2V
So, the setting C.C. to 52.5V (52.2V + 0.3V) ensures that all the balancers will operate correctly and at the same time, they won't be overloaded.

If your solar charger is actively communicating with the US3000 via CAN bus or RS485, then he can read the battery voltage via this digital communication. Therefore, it does not matter how long the battery-to-charger cables are and whether the charger itself is measuring accurate or not. The voltage is measured by the BMS and communicated digitally. In that case, the best is to set C.C. to 52.5V.

If your solar charger does NOT utilize BMS comunication, then he has to rely on his own voltage measurements. In that case, one has to take into account the length of the battery-to-charger cables, all the joints resistance and the associated voltage drop. Therefore, it might be necessary to adjust C.C. to a higher value, like 52.6V or 52.7V for example. There's nothing you can break if you will experiment and raise the C.C. slowly in order to find the best value for your setup. Just be sure to stay away from the maximum allowed voltage as described in the specsheet.

While the specsheet allows charging voltage up to 53.5V, it's not a good idea:
The higher voltage puts a higher load the balancers, mosfet and on the cells too. All the excessive energy is wasted and turned into heat. And the heat is generally not good for the cells, of course. Second reason, why setting the C.C. to the maximum is not a good choice is the fact, that during the charging there might be occasional spikes of power that will go to the battery. Sometimes these spikes are caused by the charger algorithm itself, sometimes they are caused by a changing light conditions or by turning ON/OFF bigger loads. Once this happens during the charging, and the battery is already at it's 53.5V maximum, the BMS will sense the overvoltage and throws an error. If not corrected immediatelly, it will shutdown the battery.

 

How to set C.V. voltage:

The LFP cells used in US3000 have a resting voltage 3.2V per cell. Technically, there's no "float" voltage that you need to apply to LFP, like is common in the Lead-Acid world. LFP cells are best to be charged and then disconnected. This is based on the fact that you can overcharge and damage a LFP cell even with 100mA of current, if applied for a long time.

On the other hand, in solar applications it's impossible to disconnect the batteries from inverter once fully charged, since the batteries are acting as an energy buffer 24x7. Therefore, it's good to set C.V. to a value that will supply just a tiny amount of current into the batteries in order to keep them topped, and live with the fact that balancers will kick-in from time to time and will waste some energy by turning it into heat. With some other types of batteries, where balancers are visible, you can see this state - LED on each balancer blinks randomly, once per second or two. It's like a heartbeat. For a shame, Pylons don't have this direct visibility and you have to go into CLI, if you want to see what's going on inside the battery.

Based on that, I'm personally using C.V. = 52V,  so the balancers are not wasting excessive amounts of energy, and operate only when really needed.

 

US3000 battery:

 

image.thumb.png.4889bfe8614c3f667c30a036310ec110.png

Phantom BMS sitting inside a Pylontech battery:

image.thumb.png.084fa43764b5548e6ed69876655cf89f.png

 

CLI info for a stack of 8xUS3000:

pylon_debug>pwrsys
 Power System Information
 ---------------------------------
 System is discharging
 Total Num                : 8       
 Present Num              : 8       
 Sleep Num                : 0       
 System Volt              : 49756    mV
 System Curr              : -17724   mA
 System RC                : 558692   mAH
 System FCC               : 588892   mAH
 System SOC               : 94       %
 System SOH               : 100      %
 Highest voltage          : 3319     mV
 Average voltage          : 3317     mV
 Lowest voltage           : 3315     mV
 Highest temperature      : 22000    mC
 Average temperature      : 21500    mC
 Lowest temperature       : 20000    mC
 Recommend chg voltage    : 53250    mV
 Recommend dsg voltage    : 47000    mV
 Recommend chg current    : 118400   mA
 Recommend dsg current    : -296000  mA
Command completed successfully

Note one interesting information:
The stack has 592Ah of nominal capacity, but the recommended charging current, advertised by the BMS, is 118A = C/5.
Recommended discharging current, advertised by the BMS, is 296A = C/2.
No matter what values (much bigger) are being promoted in the specsheet, I would say that the battery designer had a very good reason why he hardcoded C/5 and C/2 into the BMS as recommended Amps.

 

CLI info on the 1st brick:

pylon_debug>info
Device address      : 1
Manufacturer        : Pylon
Device name         : US3000A
Board version       : PHANTOMSAV10R03
Main Soft version   : B65.6
Soft  version       : V1.3
Boot  version       : V1.4
Comm version        : V2.0
Release Date        : 18-09-12
Barcode             : PPTAH02
Specification       : 48V/74AH
Cell Number         : 15
Max Dischg Curr     : -100000mA
Max Charge Curr     : 102000mA
EPONPort rate       : 1200
Console Port rate   : 115200
Command completed successfully

 

State of Health for 15 cells in the 1st brick:

pylon_debug>soh
Power   1
Battery    Voltage    SOHCount   SOHStatus
0          3317       0          Normal   
1          3317       0          Normal   
2          3318       0          Normal   
3          3317       0          Normal   
4          3317       0          Normal   
5          3318       0          Normal   
6          3318       0          Normal   
7          3319       0          Normal   
8          3316       0          Normal   
9          3316       0          Normal   
10         3317       0          Normal   
11         3318       0          Normal   
12         3319       0          Normal   
13         3317       0          Normal   
14         3318       0          Normal   
Command completed successfully

 

Statistics for the oldest brick in a stack of 8:

pylon_debug>stat 8
Device address           8
Data Items      :        0
HisData Items   :     2048
MiscData Items  :      122
Charge Cnt.     :        0
Discharge Cnt.  :     3180
Charge Times    :    31004
Status Cnt.     :     3179
Idle Times      :    41151
COC Times       :        0
DOC Times       :        0
COCA Times      :        0
DOCA Times      :        0
SC Times        :        0
Bat OV Times    :        0
Bat HV Times    :        0
Bat LV Times    :        0
Bat UV Times    :        0
Bat SLP Times   :        0
Pwr OV Times    :        0
Pwr HV Times    :        0
Pwr LV Times    :        0
Pwr UV Times    :        0
Pwr SLP Times   :        0
COT Times       :        0
CUT Times       :        0
DOT Times       :        0
DUT Times       :        0
CHT Times       :        0
CLT Times       :        0
DHT Times       :        0
DLT Times       :        0
Shut Times      :        1
Reset Times     :       14
RV Times        :        0
Input OV Times  :        0
SOH Times       :        0
BMICERR Times   :        0
CYCLE Times     :       62
Pwr Percent     :       95
Pwr Coulomb     : 254001600
Dsg Cap         :  4614627
[email protected] Cnt     :        0
[email protected] Cnt     :        0
HT Cnt          :        0
LT Cnt          :        0
LV Cnt          :        0
LifeWarn Times  :        0
LifeAlarm Times :        0
Command completed successfully

Note the Cycle Times, this brick has 62 full cycles on it's meter. One full cycle is accounted whenever you discharge a full nominal capacity from the pack.

 

Hope the above info will help someone to understand how to treat these batteries.

Youda
 

 

@Youda @plonkster

I was wondering if it was possible to set my Venus GX to charge my PylonTech batteries at 52.5v

My understanding is that Victron put an override in their GX devices to charge at 52v regardless of what voltage the PylonTech BMS is broadcasting over the CAN bus.

How can I make Venus GX tell my Victron SmartSolar MPPT and Quattro to charge at 52.5v?

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20 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It will be changed in Venus 2.60.

@plonkster

Thank you so much for this info.

I can't wait to install that update.

In the meantime, I have considered taking one SmartSolar MPPT outside the Venus GX's control and setting the charge parameters to 52.5v and let that MPPT run unmanaged by the GX.

This leads me to my next question if you please? I can think of no setting I made on the MPPTs to make them slave to the GX - I simply setup DVCC on the GX and connected the MPPTs after setting them up with conservative user defined settings 52v for float and absorb.

Is it sufficient to simply unplug the MPPT's VE.Direct cable from the GX device, reboot the MPPT and the MPPT will start up independent and no longer run by the GX?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Nitheido said:

In the meantime, I have considered taking one SmartSolar MPPT outside the Venus GX's control and setting the charge parameters to 52.5v and let that MPPT run unmanaged by the GX.

You can also modify the firmware yourself, if you are sufficiently skilled. It's written in python and easily accessible once you root the Venus-GX.

9 hours ago, Nitheido said:

This leads me to my next question if you please? I can think of no setting I made on the MPPTs to make them slave to the GX - I simply setup DVCC on the GX and connected the MPPTs after setting them up with conservative user defined settings 52v for float and absorb.

The GX device automatically communicates voltage and current limits to any solar chargers that are plugged in, and the solar chargers in turn automatically go into external control mode when they receive such an instruction from the GX device. So as you observed, this is automatic.

If you unplug it, there is one setting that will get you: The BMS setting. When there is a managed battery in the system (one with a BMS such as the pylontech), the GX device tells the solar chargers that the information it is sending is on the authority of a BMS, and the solar charger than activates the "there is a BMS in the system" setting. If you unplug the solar charger, and you don't turn this off (it's easy to turn off using either VictronConnect or on the GX device), then after a few minutes the solarcharger will stop charging (it's a safety measure).

If you can't use VictronConnect to change this and you want to use the GX device, then here is how you do it. First unplug the BMS, so it stops controlling the system. Then from the Device List on the GX device, access the one you want to remove, and turn off the BMS option. Unplug that solar charger. Then plug the BMS back in.

Selection_500.png.a83804ee17f0e7592bae1d9100ad9cb7.png

You can also in theory do it without unplugging the BMS, but then you have to be very quick. The GX communicates with the solarchargers every 3 seconds. You'd have to turn it off and yank the cable out within that time window... or it will just switch on again.

Edited by plonkster

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On 2020/03/23 at 8:06 AM, plonkster said:

The GX device automatically communicates voltage and current limits to any solar chargers that are plugged in, and the solar chargers in turn automatically go into external control mode when they receive such an instruction from the GX device. So as you observed, this is automatic.

If you unplug it, there is one setting that will get you: The BMS setting. When there is a managed battery in the system (one with a BMS such as the pylontech), the GX device tells the solar chargers that the information it is sending is on the authority of a BMS, and the solar charger than activates the "there is a BMS in the system" setting. If you unplug the solar charger, and you don't turn this off (it's easy to turn off using either VictronConnect or on the GX device), then after a few minutes the solarcharger will stop charging (it's a safety measure).

If you can't use VictronConnect to change this and you want to use the GX device, then here is how you do it. First unplug the BMS, so it stops controlling the system. Then from the Device List on the GX device, access the one you want to remove, and turn off the BMS option. Unplug that solar charger. Then plug the BMS back in.....u can also in theory do it without unplugging the BMS, but then you have to be very quick. The GX communicates with the solarchargers every 3 seconds. You'd have to turn it off and yank the cable out within that time window... or it will just switch on again.

@plonkster Many thanks for your excellent support.

I could find no setting available to disable external control or networked operation when I connect to the MPPT through VictronConnect.

 On the GX device it is possible to reset the 'BMS control' feature but it just starts right up again if I connect the MPPT's VE.direct cable back to the GX.

I would like to have the MPPT connected to the GX for easy monitoring and reporting but the MPPT should not be controlled by the BMS but rather run independent based on the parameters I configure.

Is there any chance I could achieve this? 

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

today I made the sign for my solar EV charger. It's just a sticker on plate of inox steel, covered with a couple of clear-coat layers.
I hope that it will survive longer than till the first rain...

sign.thumb.jpeg.3575142386da9f7fd9594f0d688e44a1.jpeg

sign2.thumb.jpg.aa10c4157b36712c31bd5a52414aa8fb.jpg

Edited by Youda

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Posted (edited)

@RikH

Oh yes...those European sunless winters 😭

I have a script in place that allows roughly 7kW charging during the day. In the night, or when lithium SoC falls bellow 40%, the wallbox auto-switches to 2kW.
So, the logic above should work okay even during the winter. If not, I will swap the sign for some other, saying that EV's are welcome to top-up my home batteries :)

Edited by Youda

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@Youda A good day to you. I have seen many examples of you using the PylonTech CLI to gain access and run commands.

How does one access this CLI? I see nothing in batteryview that may help - I tried to use Putty sofware to connect to the COM port number but all I got was a blank screen.

I am able to talk to the BMS with batteryview software, please can you give a step by step guide how to access the CLI too?

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@Nitheido

first of all, let me repeat myself - " If you're not a certified Pylontech expert, don't touch the CLI, please".

Easiest way is to start BatteryView and connect to the stack. Then close the program and open Putty, using the same COM port number. Press Enter twice and the CLI will prompt you for input.

 

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