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Joburg regulations for solar


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17 hours ago, Achmat said:

It's added at the point of purchase so not an FNB issue. It wouldn't matter where a bought the prepaid units from as its applied at the point of purchase. 

In COJ, and I bet, in other municipalities, they do something similar with arrears.

Say I am in arrears on my municipal account - any portion of it, not just electricity - and I try to buy pre-paid electricity, they will first offset whatever amount I am spending against arrears. Obviously with a cut off. I my account is overdue by one day then they won't, but if I'm months in arrears then they will.

Similarly if I want to convert to pre-paid, I may not be in arrears on my account.

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  • 1 year later...

To continue an older topic.

Do PV systems have to be registered in Joburg, specifically with City Power?

My understanding was that registration is only required if you are planning on feeding power back to the grid, as then a specific meter is required, allowing electricity to be metered in and out.

If you have a pre-paid meter, where does this leave you? I use very little mains (only when we have extended cloudy weather), so pre-paid made the most sense for me, in order to avoid paying the R900+ monthly connection fee, when I'm using almost no electricty.

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On 2020/11/01 at 12:42 PM, Bobster. said:

City Power came knocking at my door. They were curious because I hadn't bought pre-paid for some months. They know what I used to buy and that had suddenly plummeted to zero. So there were various possibilities.

They inspected my meter to be sure it wasn't bypassed. They noted my heat pump and solar installation. They left. I haven't heard a dickie bird from them. But I buy a few units each month to keep them happy (you can bank them anyway) and because I do need some when we have overcast weather.

 

This is exactly what happened to me this morning, except they disconnected my pre-paid meter.

I called the call center and they said I would need to go into a City Power branch, with my disconnection form, as well as proof of where I am now getting my electricity from, in order to have the power connected again. I haven't registered my system, and based on the requirements and the number of hoops required to jump through (a PR engineer has to sign off), it may not even be worth my while to go through this process.

I have used a grand total of 350 units this year from the grid. It may end up being less expensive, and a lot less hassle to simply buy some extra solar panels, as well as a small generator for the times where I need a few extra kWh. Then I can be completely offgrid and not need to worry about registering my system, or dealing with the clowns from City Power.

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2 hours ago, Schnavel said:

To continue an older topic.

Do PV systems have to be registered in Joburg, specifically with City Power?

My understanding was that registration is only required if you are planning on feeding power back to the grid, as then a specific meter is required, allowing electricity to be metered in and out.

If you have a pre-paid meter, where does this leave you? I use very little mains (only when we have extended cloudy weather), so pre-paid made the most sense for me, in order to avoid paying the R900+ monthly connection fee, when I'm using almost no electricty.

When my system was installed (2019) I asked the installer and I asked my ward councillor. Neither knew for sure of any regulation requiring me to register the system or inform the City.

However, there was a draft regulation published in 2020 that said that no private generation (solar, generator, anything else) may be connected to the municipal grid without permission from the City.

If that has now been enacted then the issue is no longer whether or not one is feeding the meter (though lack of movement or lack of purchases will ping the radar) but whether or not one has done the paperwork that one doesn't know about.

I've always felt that at some point, some piece of legislation would be passed. But it would be nice if those in charge make some noise about such changes. 

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Or at the absolute minimum, indicate a cost and allow for the application to be done online.

I don't have the time to go into a City Power office, to wait around for half a day, in order to complete some forms. According to City Power, you need to submit various documents applying for approval, the CoC, Line Diagram and if they are happy with that, then they will send out an engineer to review the proposed installation (this is all meant to be done before you even switch the system on). If the City Power engineer is happy, you then need to get a PR engineer as well in order to sign off the installation - this will all come at a not-insignificant cost.

In addition to this, it appears that you aren't allowed to use a pre-paid meter, only a specific meter which allows for feedback into the grid (even if you have no plans to feedback power). The monthly "connection" fee is even higher than the standard connection fee, all so that you can have some form of "back-up" in the event of bad weather.

It really seems that City Power and Eskom are trying their hardest to deter people from using renewable energy, in order to ensure that costumers continue to pay, despite the fact that they cannot provide power for 40% of the day...

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  • 2 months later...

Has no one in Joburg actually gotten this right?

There must be 100s of thousands of private solar systems on houses throughout JHB,  how on earth can they not just allow us to push back, I am even happy to do it for free.

The whole net zero rule makes absolutly no senes, that is why we have loadshedding.  

Why would the city not just take cheap ( or free) power and sell it)."

They could pass the rule tomororw, and in a week have 1000s of people pushing back,  at least we could be 1 stage of load shedding down midday, or in my mind each house could power a traffic lite.  I know its a drop in the ocean compared to what they actually need, But its quick and easy to enable.

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35 minutes ago, Zapnologics said:

Has no one in Joburg actually gotten this right?

There must be 100s of thousands of private solar systems on houses throughout JHB,  how on earth can they not just allow us to push back, I am even happy to do it for free.

The whole net zero rule makes absolutly no senes, that is why we have loadshedding.  

Why would the city not just take cheap ( or free) power and sell it)."

They could pass the rule tomororw, and in a week have 1000s of people pushing back,  at least we could be 1 stage of load shedding down midday, or in my mind each house could power a traffic lite.  I know its a drop in the ocean compared to what they actually need, But its quick and easy to enable.

They don't even want to install prepaid meters as they don't won't to loose the high basic fee for each post paid meter. 

If they change the rule who will fit the bi-directional meters during silly season. 

No munic has money and won't pay for the meters and I am sure not many people will fork out R10th for them. 

Will you pay this amount and still feed in for free? 

Edited by Scorp007
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2 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

They don't even want to install prepaid meters as they don't won't to loose the high basic fee for each post paid meter. 

If they change the rule who will fit the bi-directional meters during silly season. 

No munic has money and won't pay for the meters and I am sure not many people will fork out R10th for them. 

Will you pay this amount and still feed in for free? 

I have a prepaid meter installed, and i am 80% sure it will have bi direction ability.  Wheastehr the munciaplity knows how to use it or not.  Pretty much every power meter I have ever worked with has import and export power. I truely dont beleive the meter is the problem here.

if you have an old metal dial meter, then yes sure. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Zapnologics said:

Pretty much every power meter I have ever worked with has import and export power.

And every single one (in SA) is configured to count both export and import as "use" - that is if it's not configured to go into tamper mode on export.

Edited by P1000
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5 hours ago, Scorp007 said:

They don't even want to install prepaid meters as they don't won't to loose the high basic fee for each post paid meter. 

This is not true in general. COJ are installing a lot of pre-paid meters. There is a demand because consumers are finally figuring out that they can save money (and these days, who doesn't want to?), and because there's no estimated readings. I see this advertised for new townhouse developments: "Pre-paid electricity". It's a feature. Though I hope this is municipal meters, not these third party things which are just a gift that keeps on giving for the developers.

Pre-paid is good for COJ. You pay more per kwh, and there are less steps in the tariff. The customer saves because the monthly admin fees fall away. So COJ get paid in advance. For post-paid customers they bill you 30 days in arrears, then wait almost another month for payment. Pre-paid is very good for their cash flow, and for some years I've been wondering why they don't push pre-paid a lot harder.

It may be true that they don't want to fit pre-paid meters in properties that have solar. Mine was done the other way around, pre-paid, then solar. I don't know where I stand, and when I ask the City or my ward councillor, neither do they. In 2023 I will get to the bottom of this. 

Or maybe I don't want to know so that I can plead innocence. I need to make my mind up!

They have come to inspect at least 4 times since I switched to solar, so I am definitely a blip on their radar. Every time it is polite. Every time it ends inconclusively.

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22 hours ago, Bobster. said:

This is not true in general. COJ are installing a lot of pre-paid meters. There is a demand because consumers are finally figuring out that they can save money (and these days, who doesn't want to?), and because there's no estimated readings. I see this advertised for new townhouse developments: "Pre-paid electricity". It's a feature. Though I hope this is municipal meters, not these third party things which are just a gift that keeps on giving for the developers.

Pre-paid is good for COJ. You pay more per kwh, and there are less steps in the tariff. The customer saves because the monthly admin fees fall away. So COJ get paid in advance. For post-paid customers they bill you 30 days in arrears, then wait almost another month for payment. Pre-paid is very good for their cash flow, and for some years I've been wondering why they don't push pre-paid a lot harder.

It may be true that they don't want to fit pre-paid meters in properties that have solar. Mine was done the other way around, pre-paid, then solar. I don't know where I stand, and when I ask the City or my ward councillor, neither do they. In 2023 I will get to the bottom of this. 

Or maybe I don't want to know so that I can plead innocence. I need to make my mind up!

They have come to inspect at least 4 times since I switched to solar, so I am definitely a blip on their radar. Every time it is polite. Every time it ends inconclusively.

Thanks @Bobster. For the facts. Some comments based on other members that tried to go to prepaid before installing solar. One comment was that CoJ do not install prepaid in their specific suburb. Actually a difficult one. Do you accept R880 as a service fee post paid or give it up and get the income prepaid at a few cents more per unit and get it up front. Glad to say we have no service fee yet for post paid meters.

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To add to this, 

I recently converted from account / post paid to pre-paid. 

Was it an absolure mission?  yes 4 or 5 trips to the city centre, systems offline, loadshedding etc.

But once I paid, (it was quite abit like 2 or 3k)(lord knows what for, cause they just used the same meter).

Then some contractor rocked up at the house about week later to re-program the meter. and bam it was done.

However I am sure they are soon going to change this rule as they are going to start feeling the affect of no connection fees.

I still beleive the connection fee should be charged like a transport tax on every kwh delivered.  If its upstream or downstream.  Eskom should just charge for the transport of electricity. While all the energy providers charge for the actual kwh.  Eskom can then even bill the energy providers.   (Sort of like how fibre works).  Eskom = Vumatell.   Then I can choose some energy provider.

Anyhow, we can moan online, its just a pitty that while our country is falling appaart due to now power, there isnt a very simple option to push back...

 

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On 2022/12/31 at 8:13 AM, Zapnologics said:

Has no one in Joburg actually gotten this right?

There must be 100s of thousands of private solar systems on houses throughout JHB,  how on earth can they not just allow us to push back, I am even happy to do it for free.

The whole net zero rule makes absolutly no senes, that is why we have loadshedding.  

Why would the city not just take cheap ( or free) power and sell it)."

They could pass the rule tomororw, and in a week have 1000s of people pushing back,  at least we could be 1 stage of load shedding down midday, or in my mind each house could power a traffic lite.  I know its a drop in the ocean compared to what they actually need, But its quick and easy to enable.

You really don't understand how this all works, do you?

The Shitty Council is about making money to pay their salaries, not about serving the citizens.

BTW, I have two old rotary meters... they DO run backwards... but haven't run backwards or forwards for 4 or 5 years.

Edited by PaulinNorthcliff
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On 2023/01/01 at 1:50 PM, Scorp007 said:

Some comments based on other members that tried to go to prepaid before installing solar. One comment was that CoJ do not install prepaid in their specific suburb

This is possible. Some parts of the metro get their electricity directly from Eskom. Paulshof & parts of Bryanston are examples. In such instances, City Power cannot make any changes or repairs to infrastructure. 

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32 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

This is possible. Some parts of the metro get their electricity directly from Eskom. Paulshof & parts of Bryanston are examples. In such instances, City Power cannot make any changes or repairs to infrastructure. 

Thanks. No the person here on the forum mentioned City Power as the supplier. Yes a big portion of Sandton are also direct customers of Eskom. They have their own structure for service fees. I have to say I have never seen a city user's account getting power directly from Eskom. I have seen a number of rural areas accounts.

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On 2023/01/02 at 6:27 AM, Zapnologics said:

To add to this, 

I recently converted from account / post paid to pre-paid. 

Was it an absolure mission?  yes 4 or 5 trips to the city centre, systems offline, loadshedding etc.

But once I paid, (it was quite abit like 2 or 3k)(lord knows what for, cause they just used the same meter).

Then some contractor rocked up at the house about week later to re-program the meter. and bam it was done.

However I am sure they are soon going to change this rule as they are going to start feeling the affect of no connection fees.

I still believe the connection fee should be charged like a transport tax on every kwh delivered.  If its upstream or downstream.  Eskom should just charge for the transport of electricity. While all the energy providers charge for the actual kwh.  Eskom can then even bill the energy providers.   (Sort of like how fibre works).  Eskom = Vumatell.   Then I can choose some energy provider.

Anyhow, we can moan online, its just a pitty that while our country is falling appaart due to now power, there isnt a very simple option to push back...

I've been on CoJ Pre-Paid for 12+ years.
I switched to pre-paid in 2010 as it was already much cheaper in 2010 and no more estimate readings.

CoJ in their recent budgets have tried twice (and failed) to introduce a fixed fee for pre-paid.
There was quite an uproar and resistance to the fixed-fee proposals from poor communities.
The issue is that CoJ "want their cake and eat it too".
CoJ want the fixed-fee, but don't want to reduce the higher tariffs / less bands than post-paid.

AFAIK, CoCT already have this fixed-fee on pre-paid.

In terms of grid feeding CoJ, this is something that CityPower has not done anything to encourage.
Just spoke to a friend in Portugal and the process is as follows:

  • Contact an approved certified installer.
  • Installer installs system (grid tied and grid feeding)
  • You pay the installer.
  • You upload designs to council, invoices, applications etc (all on a web site).
  • About 4 months later you get 70% refund on the installation.
  • Your bill is credited with units fed to grid.

That's what we need here.

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  • 1 month later...

OK... today, in my neck of the woods, there were sessions for residents to bring their questions to their City Councillor.

Here is what I was told, by a councillor (who has solar power installed) about cases where you have City Power as a supplier and have or want to have solar.

In short: The regulations are still vague, they only get specific for residents who want to sell back.

If you don't want to sell back then get your system installed, make sure it complies with safety regulations (anti-islanding etc), get your COC updated (this is for your own good, nothing to do with the City) and then wait for the City to tell you need to register your system, when and if that happens.

If you want to sell back then registration and switching to the resellers tariff is mandatory.

If you are on prepaid or want to switch to prepaid, then that's fine AS LONG AS you don't start feeding into the grid (which may be a self-defeating strategy as some pre-paid meters can't tell which way the energy is flowing).

Be advised that City Power will come knocking on your door. They monitor all accounts in the City, and if your usage drops suddenly and stays down then they will inspect to see what is going on. You should co-operate.

Edited by Bobster.
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