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Coulomb

MPP Solar inverters support Pylontech (some models)

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3 hours ago, Wilfred said:

You mean “Synapse” ?

Arrgh! Sigh. I mixed these two names up. They Synapse looks to be a legitimate Voltronic Power model (re-badged, but they all are). So you should have no trouble updating the firmware.

Sorry about the mixup.

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@Coulomb no problem, so many names, enough to confuse anyone.

the low voltage error is on the inverter not connected to the batteries directly. I am going to disconnect the cable for now until I can have the firmware updated.

I really hope that at least the communication between the two inverters will be resolved, thanks

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Hi,

For those who still struggle, received a mail from Pylontech:

1.

inverter pin: RS485B——3, RS485A——5

battery pin: RS485B——8, RS485A——7

2.

Connect to Master battery RS485 port,
RS485 baud rate 9600

the ADD setting for baud rate 9600 shall be “1000” (default is “0000) (master battery)

3.

section reference numbers from the 05 - battery type: “USE” or “PYL” (have to be PYL in my opinion)

4.

set low dc cut-off voltage: 47,5v or 48v (won’t matter if the communication works as 02, 12, 13, 26, 27, 29 become self regulated by the batteries)

5.

after turning off the inverter manually, all batteries shall be shut down and restarted

The above is for the Axpert VMIII / KING 48V/5KW inverters.

regards, Wilfred

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On 2019/11/25 at 8:00 PM, Wilfred said:

For those who still struggle, received a mail from Pylontech:

1.

inverter pin: RS485B——3, RS485A——5

battery pin: RS485B——8, RS485A——7

2.

Connect to Master battery RS485 port,
RS485 baud rate 9600

the ADD setting for baud rate 9600 shall be “1000” (default is “0000) (master battery)

3.

section reference numbers from the 05 - battery type: “USE” or “PYL” (have to be PYL in my opinion)

Thanks, I can confirm that it works with the cable as described here @9600 baud. When inverter set to 05="PYL" running firmware version 71.80. (It did not work as 05= "USE"  but worked after changing to "PYL").

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1 minute ago, Jaco44 said:
On 2019/11/25 at 8:00 PM, Wilfred said:

 

Thanks, I can confirm that it works with the cable as described here @9600 baud. When inverter set to 05="PYL" running firmware version 71.80. (It did not work as 05= "USE"  but worked after changing to "PYL").

Excellent, 

It will only work when set to PYL. 
One question? One or two inverters? 
I have FW 71.70 and it works as well.

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8 hours ago, Wilfred said:

Excellent, 

It will only work when set to PYL. 
One question? One or two inverters? 
I have FW 71.70 and it works as well.

My system:

Inverter

Model: Voltronic Axpert King 5kW 48V MPPT (off grid) (X1)

Firmware:  71.80 [U2 02.00 U3 00.21]

Battery

Pylontech US2000B Plus 48V (X2)

Interfaced to inverter via RS485 cable using "PYL" option in register 05

PV panels

None. (Current priority is for inverter to serve as UPS)

PV panels to be added in future

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I've been looking at the differences between main firmware version 71.80 (for Axpert Kings and PIP-5048MKs etc) and 71.86. My preliminary observation is that 71.86 has more support for PylonTech batteries than 71.80, e.g. the QRI and QGS commands (sent from the Solar Charge Controller to the Digital Signal Processor) consider the maximum charge current as sent from the PylonTech BMS.

It still has the usual charge bugs, but these don't matter much for most users using a PylonTech, as the recommended float voltage is the same or only a little less than the bulk/absorb voltage. It came with display firmware 02.00, I don't know if this is important.

So those who want to connect to PylonTech batteries, consider this firmware update.

https://powerforum.co.za/files/file/47-axpert-king-main-cpu-7186-reflashzip/

 

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On 2019/12/12 at 9:21 PM, Coulomb said:

I've been looking at the differences between main firmware version 71.80 (for Axpert Kings and PIP-5048MKs etc) and 71.86.

Another significant difference: there are 4 more CAN commands that concern the PylonTech BMS information. So each machine in a parallel and/or 3-phase situation should be more aware of what the others are doing, BMS wise.

Edited by Coulomb

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Great, thank you for looking into this.

I am close to having my firmware updated, I am waiting on an “Engineer” at the supplier to come and do the firmware update, then it is their risk not mine :)

hopefully we can get this done soon, I am looking forward to have both machines interact with the BMS and display the same correct info as supplied from the batteries.

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On 2019/12/12 at 1:21 PM, Coulomb said:

It still has the usual charge bugs, but these don't matter much for most users using a PylonTech, as the recommended float voltage is the same or only a little less than the bulk/absorb voltage. It came with display firmware 02.00, I don't know if this is important.

So those who want to connect to PylonTech batteries, consider this firmware update.

https://powerforum.co.za/files/file/47-axpert-king-main-cpu-7186-reflashzip/

 

21 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Another significant difference: there are 4 more CAN commands that concern the PylonTech BMS information. So each machine in a parallel and/or 3-phase situation should be more aware of what the others are doing, BMS wise.

Thanks for sharing the update. I will look more closely at the "charge bugs" and your firmware updates in 2020. For now, I am happy to have functional comms between  Pylontech and Inverter. Your support is much appreciated.

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@Coulomb and @Youda 

Just for interest sake, maybe you guys know, I am no electrician or IT person.

Is it possible to use a network hub, have the cable go to the hub from the main battery and from the hub take it to each of the inverters in parallel?

Is this a possible solution?

This is for the communication cable and for the use of the PYL setting on both inverters.

 

Edited by Wilfred

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Sorry mate, that's not possible.

While is looks like a common UTP cable, technically it is not Ethernet, but RS485. Thats electrically and protocol-wise very different animal. Therefore hub or switch will not work.

But what could be done is to build some RS485 bms emulator that will listen to the inverters, forward the messages to the bms and then send the reply back to each inverter. An expert that has a degree of experience in programing industrial PLCs will be able to do this for you.

But to be honest - the best would be to push on MPP/Voltronic to implement bms communication forwarding between the inverters running in parallel.

These asian products are great, but totally unfinished, as usual. That is the most common difference between USA/EU/JP/AU and the Asian products.

We've got what we've paid for :)

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2 hours ago, Wilfred said:

@Coulomb and @Youda 

Is it possible to use a network hub, have the cable go to the hub from the main battery and from the hub take it to each of the inverters in parallel?

No, the communications between the battery BMS and the inverter-chargers is RS-485. They use the same connectors that ethernet uses, but it's not ethernet signals.

Also, I think the inverter-chargers would be confused if two of them saw BMS communications. As of firmware version 71.86, the BMS information should be broadcast to the other inverter-chargers via the 4 new CAN bus commands. (One set of cables joining the paralleled machines is CAN bus, though they use a cable that looks like a video cable.)

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On 2019/12/15 at 2:10 AM, Wilfred said:

Let’s say I brick an inverter, will it need a new pc board or something

Yes. A new control board. Of the order of US$100 or less. [ Edit: Well under US$100, as it turns out; see thee posts down. ] The hassle is the slow response from Voltronic, it can take weeks and then still arrive with a generic serial number.

Edited by Coulomb

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Haha, I just flashed your beta 71.80d firmware, and now saw this.

I am setting up a system with 3 pylontech US2000 and a 5048MK and made the RS485 cable according what @Wilfred forwarded from Pylontech.

I will flash the new 71.86 now 🙂

edit: done

@Coulomb Are you planning to make a patched version?

 

edit: fyi my MK that I received recently came with fw 71.80 and display fw 02.00

Edited by birdibird

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9 hours ago, birdibird said:

@Coulomb Are you planning to make a patched version?

I was thinking no. This revision seems aimed mostly at those with PylonTech batteries, and since most users of these batteries have their float voltage setting almost as high as the bulk/absorb voltage setting, the charge bugs will have little effect.

9 hours ago, birdibird said:

edit: fyi my MK that I received recently came with fw 71.80 and display fw 02.00

That seems irresponsible at first (not shipping with the latest firmware). But I suppose once an inverter-charger is manufactured and sealed in a box, you don't want to open it up and reflash it to the latest firmware version, just in case the customer needs it. Cheaper to email the update to the customer only if they scream for it.

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On 2019/12/16 at 12:02 AM, Coulomb said:

Yes. A new control board. Of the order of US$100 or less. The hassle is the slow response from Voltronic, it can take weeks and then still arrive with a generic serial number.

My replacement control board (from MppSolar) cost $25 + $30 shipping but took ages and a lot of hassling to get, see http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?p=76623#p76514

The generic serial number can be reset to your original board number using available software.....

 

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On 2019/12/14 at 2:33 PM, Coulomb said:

Also, I think the inverter-chargers would be confused if two of them saw BMS communications. As of firmware version 71.86, the BMS information should be broadcast to the other inverter-chargers via the 4 new CAN bus commands. (One set of cables joining the paralleled machines is CAN bus, though they use a cable that looks like a video cable.)

Sadly, it appears that it is not resolved.

I have 3 Kings running in parallel on 71.86 and I can confirm that all the issues @Wilfred raised are still there.  Only the inverter connected to the battery has correct SOC information - the others give endless Low Battery warnings.

By synchronising the setup parameters (29) but not the SOC the developers have managed to make the system almost unusable.  It seems that one either has to disable the beeper and live with endless Low Battery alarms, or go back to USE setting for battery type (or un-parallel the system - they seem fine in single-mode)

@Coulomb, any chance of you and @weber doing a further patch on 71.80 (or 71.86) to resolve this issue?  I assume that it is not present in the MS series?

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8 hours ago, Calvin said:

I have 3 Kings running in parallel on 71.86 and I can confirm that all the issues @Wilfred raised are still there.  Only the inverter connected to the battery has correct SOC information - the others give endless Low Battery warnings.

Geez. You'd think that this sort of thing would come up in their testing. Sigh.

 

8 hours ago, Calvin said:

 

Coulomb, any chance of you and Weber doing a further patch on 71.80 (or 71.86) to resolve this issue?

Sad to say, not likely, at least for some time.

Quote

I assume that it is not present in the MS series?

Well, yes, but the problem seems to be that the display processor talks to the BMS, so it knows the BMS SOC, but it's the main DSP that communicates SOC from one machine to another via the CAN buses. The problem probably lies with the communications between the DSP and display processors, something I'm not yet familiar with.

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On 2020/01/25 at 7:10 PM, Calvin said:

Sadly, it appears that it is not resolved.

I have 3 Kings running in parallel on 71.86 and I can confirm that all the issues @Wilfred raised are still there.  Only the inverter connected to the battery has correct SOC information - the others give endless Low Battery warnings.

By synchronising the setup parameters (29) but not the SOC the developers have managed to make the system almost unusable.  It seems that one either has to disable the beeper and live with endless Low Battery alarms, or go back to USE setting for battery type (or un-parallel the system - they seem fine in single-mode)

@Coulomb, any chance of you and @weber doing a further patch on 71.80 (or 71.86) to resolve this issue?  I assume that it is not present in the MS series?

I have now extensively tested 3 Kings in parallel (single phase) and it is clear that they simply do not work with the battery set to PYLON.

The Master works fine, but the slave work correctly only until comms with the Pylon starts.  After that PV input is frozen, all Query results (QPIGS, Q1, QPGSx) are frozen, it takes a hard reboot (disconnect utility, PV and battery) to get it going again.  Once started the slave only runs correctly until the battery icon on the inverter connected to the Pylon starts flashing. 

The deal killer is the fact that PV input is only picked up on boot.  Once the sun sets the inverter does not see any PV input the next morning without a hard reboot.

I have tested it with different inverters (all on 71.86), different configuration parameters, always the same.

For now I have reverted to battery type USER.  Perhaps a future firmware update will fix it....

The good news is that, on USER, it works fine. No freezes, glitches, strange behaviours (so far...)

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