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ESM 48100a1 li-ion battery


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@Ernie, if you are running ICC and it has a good SOC reading (from a BMV or a cable to the battery BMS), then you'll want to let ICC control when to switch to grid or battery based on SOC. Then you'll want to follow ICC's suggested values for settings 12 and 13, which I believe are very low for 12 and very high for 13.

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2 hours ago, Ernie said:

Thanks GVC, which batteries do you have? Whats your float and back to batteries V?

I do not have the ESM48100 batteries, but very similar ones.

My settings are as follows:

Bulk = 53.4

Float = 53.1

Back to grid = 48.0

Back to batteries = 50.0

Cut-off = 44.0

Apologies, I reported the back to batteries setting in my above post.

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22 hours ago, Coulomb said:

@Ernie, if you are running ICC and it has a good SOC reading (from a BMV or a cable to the battery BMS), then you'll want to let ICC control when to switch to grid or battery based on SOC. Then you'll want to follow ICC's suggested values for settings 12 and 13, which I believe are very low for 12 and very high for 13.

 @Coulomb I have a BMV 712 installed but I'm struggling to get an accurate soc reading. Currently its as per attachment, should be around 90% I reckon. Also soc sometimes show 40% when its on 51V???

Screenshot_20190721-090328_VNC Viewer.jpg

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On 2019/07/20 at 10:21 AM, Coulomb said:

@Ernie, if you are running ICC and it has a good SOC reading (from a BMV or a cable to the battery BMS), then you'll want to let ICC control when to switch to grid or battery based on SOC. Then you'll want to follow ICC's suggested values for settings 12 and 13, which I believe are very low for 12 and very high for 13.

 @Coulomb I have a BMV 712 installed but I'm struggling to get an accurate soc reading. Currently its as per attachment, should be around 90% I reckon. Also soc sometimes show 40% when its on 51V???

Screenshot_20190721-105351_VNC Viewer.jpg

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Halo Ernie, SOC does not directly relate to Volts.

SOC is calculated by measuring the current (Amps) flowing through the shunt.

The Ah’s put into the battery vs the Ah’s pulled from the battery via the inverter.

As you startup your BMV the first time the ICC will assume the batteries are fully charged. It might happen that your batteries need to be charged for a while before it is really fully charged. Indication of fully charged batteries will be that it will not accept any power although their might be power available, either from the panels or from utility source.

The SOC is also calculated from the battery capacity you enter into the BMV.

Hope it helps

 

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15 hours ago, Coulomb said:

So are you getting the same SOC value from ICC as you are from the BMV?

Ignore the value from the inverter itself; it will be rubbish.

Yes but the soc is clearly wrong most of the time. ie I would have discharged about 3kwh from the batteries and the soc would show 95%, or they would be almost fully charged and it would show 50%. No idea anymore

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4 hours ago, Jaco Venter said:

ICC software make use of the BMV values

Yes, but only if it's correctly set up. I vaguely recall a tick box in ICC to the effect of "use BMV for battery SOC measurements". If this is not ticked, it will be using inverter SOC values, which are rubbish for LFP batteries.

So it seems to me that either

  • ICC is not set up to use the BMV
  • ICC is not communicating with the BMV (cable issue perhaps)
  • The BMV is not set up correctly, perhaps never synchronising with the battery (it should reset to 100% SOC when fully charged; there are at least two BMV settings related to this, and my feeling is that it's easy to get these wrong)
  • The BMV hardware is not set up correctly (e.g. shunt miswired)
  • The BMV is faulty (unlikely).

I'm not familiar with ICC, and haven't used a BMV for years, so I can't help with those details.

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15 hours ago, Ernie said:

It seems to be the BMV itself, I have the 712 and the SOC on the BMV shows the same discrepancies. If the shunt is reversed could this cause the problem?

Yes it will, it is actually marked to show which side is going where.

If the shut is mounted with the coms cables on the right, the negative from the battery must be connected on the bottom and the top of the shunt must be connected to the inverter.

Also make sure setting 5 on the BMV is set to 1.05 for Li-ion and setting 6 is set to accommodate losses. (95% might be close)

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On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

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On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

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On 2019/04/09 at 3:21 PM, Tacet said:

This ESM 48100A1 was certified with an upper charging limit of 55 V.  The recommended float voltage is 53.5 V.  If 70 V work, good for you, but it's not something I'd do if I could avoid it. 

The 8 unit parallel limit is if you connect their BMSes with the RS485 interface.  If you use the CAN interface you can connect up to 32 in parallel.

The BMS limits the output current to 50 A.  That means that a single battery can't give you more than about 2.5 kW output.  You can get more by parallelling them, but be careful.  At the very edge of capacity you'll reach a point where one of them disconnects because it is empty, throwing the whole of the load to the remaining one, which would then disconnect due to a overload condition.  All should be fine, but I'd prefer to disconnect at e.g. 44.5 V when parallelling.

As for the inverter and the battery's SoC - I wouldn't worry too much if the battery reads about 49.8 V on load.

Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2020/01/11 at 7:51 AM, Keith said:

Thanks been looking for this number... upper charge voltage 55 V. Resolves my issue or rather explains why I have it.

when mains fails and solar is more than load (I have fronius on acout1 of a multi) the multi needs to get rid of all solar by putting it into the battery, volts on dc goes to 55+, battery closes down, system “trips”. Volts has been removed so battery recovers, inverter comes on and the fronius starts synch process, as soon as it comes on line, repeat high dc volt trip.... so I am now switching the PV input to fronius off when there is load shedding... or I switch on a dummy load to keep load above PV until the frequency shift takes over. But even so if the dummy load all of a sudden switches off the frequency shift is not fast enough so ... high dc volt trip. An omnipilot will sort it...

I have noticed that after this trip. When the inverter comes back the sos jumps up some 10%. 
id post vrm graphs if I knew how to....

I have now added 8*370Wp panels on a 250/70 SmartSolar charger. So when grid fails I will have solar input. Also added a smart switch that will disconnect the fronius when grid fails. Now probably got enough solar to supply more loads and integrate the control to the smart switch.

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