A Big hello to all the other forum members....As a new member perhaps you as a group can help. Close to 18 months ago I bought from Takealot a 3KVA "full circle solar" MPPT inverter/controller/charger delivering 24 volts. I connected it to 2X270 Canadian solar panesl as well as 4X 105AH batteries and as such this system has powered a fridge/freezer, a couple of LED lights, a TV and one or two other connections when required on a sunshine day without any problem.  As all these "power users" are now on a separate system to the grid but only connected by the power supply to the inverter I regard myself as an off grid system (supported by a number of suppliers of Mecer type inverters that have the same innerds but a different nane)  but it would appear that the Cape Town City Council deems that I am a hybrid on grid system.  What is my position particularly when I stay in a 70 year old house with a Council meter system that I do not own with a revolving disc in the meter system.....it is theirs.......and I can assure you it never goes backwards.  So, as a first step in my off the grid application should I not request them to replace my meter with a prepaid one (which should have been done years ago) and am I able to insist that it is configured that it will not allow electricity I produce to go backwards to the grid.  This will obviously save me the expense of a highly qualified electrrical engineer having to visit and pass off my simple cost saving ideas.  Your comments will be appreciated       .  

The only way to make that inverter legal (unless something changes soon) is to disconnect the AC input completely so that it becomes completely off-grid. CoCT rejects everything that is not on their list and does not accept as off-grid anything without paperwork (and even some with paperwork). I know this is not what you want to hear right now... but do look at the other threads on this site about the same issue.

Installed an inverter, 4 PV panels in 2015.  A licenced electrician helped me, we fitted a separate earth-leakage relay. breakers for input and output and wired the inverter output to the house lighting circuit.  It is not grid-tied, just supplies electricity to one circuit

Fast forward to 2018 and I submitted the application to Cape Town Council, complete with COC, diagrams, etc in July.  They came back to me to say the diagram is insufficient.  So I contacted the ECA who suggested I contact Greencard.  No response from them by phone or email

An aggressive fellow from Council sent me an email to say that unless I complied, I would have pay a fine to dismantle the installation as they could not be sure it is safe.  This despite a COC from a licensed electrician

I am inclined to tell Council to get stuffed, but wife is now worried that we will get the R6000 fine threatened and have to remove all this equipment, which certainly saves money

Any suggestions please?

27 minutes ago, chrisc said:

Any suggestions please?

Remove the AC input of the inverter. Then install a manual interlocking changeover (like the Hager SF263 or similar) on the output so that the inverter cannot possibly be connected to the grid. Then sign it off as off-grid. I know this partially cripples the inverter (can't charge from AC, can't fall back to grid) but that's your only solution right now. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

51 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Remove the AC input of the inverter. Then install a manual interlocking changeover (like the Hager SF263 or similar) on the output so that the inverter cannot possibly be connected to the grid. Then sign it off as off-grid. I know this partially cripples the inverter (can't charge from AC, can't fall back to grid) but that's your only solution right now. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Interesting that @The Terrible Triplett has a permission to install for a grid-tied-no-feedback setup with grid-tie, PV and batteries.

Perhaps they made a mistake to approve his, but I’m hopeful for my similar application.  

Otherwise it is as you say.  Or one grid-tie unit with PV and no batteries, and a second in a UPS config with batteries and no panels.  Second part of that doesn’t even need to be presented to CoCT SSEG dept.

I’m inclined to go on with what I believe is safe with PrEng and sparky input, then make adjustments as required when and if sseg.south gets back to me.

@chrisc since CoCT is talking to you, why not just ask them what they need to see on the diagram and submit until you get a clear yes or no.  If no then change what must be changed - what @plonkster suggested is definitely ok and just declared as off-grid.

Obviously you and I and others have put heads above the parapet, but I want a safe system for me and others, don’t want trouble with my insurance so I’m willing to be co-operative.  It’s a challenge though since I think on their side they haven’t really got their heads around hybrid.

5 minutes ago, Elbow said:

Perhaps they made a mistake to approve his, but I’m hopeful for my similar application.  

Nope. He's allowed to install it, and if he adds the non-existent separate islanding switch we keep discussing, only then it will be approved (which comes later). IE the permission assumes he's going to also comply with the rest. So he has permission to install something that can't be approved if used in its intended way 🙂

It buys 6 months of time and the regs will hopefully change to allow peak shaving equipment.

 

4 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It buys 6 months of time and the regs will hopefully change to allow peak shaving equipment.

Ok, well that also works for me and later there will be better clarity and I can find the best way forward for me.

Do you agree with my advice to @chrisc - do the diagram a they require - perhaps it’s about the point of supply, point of control and all that - and get a definite yes or no, then amend setup as required.

Once you are on the radar I guess you have to work with them.

Just now, Elbow said:

Do you agree with my advice

They reject everything that is not on the list. You have to avoid the list. The only way to do that is to not be connected to the grid AT ALL. We can discuss the logic of this until the cows come home, but that is the reality. Again, as I said, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

4 hours ago, plonkster said:

Nope. He's allowed to install it, and if he adds the non-existent separate islanding switch we keep discussing, only then it will be approved (which comes later)

I am exactly in the same situation. Can only hope that the CoCT/SA changes the regs soon. I am optimistic because as far as I am aware we are the only country in the world with such an outdated stupid requirement. What a joke, all this red tape in a time of stage 4 load shedding. We surely are the laughing stock of the world.

21 minutes ago, Fuenkli said:

in a time of stage 4 load shedding

Yeah, I'm smiling about that. The "Energy and climate change directorate" has a much much bigger job now, and there's going to be many many more hybrid systems in the mix. I cannot imagine things not changing... not while at the same time saying you want to be green and all that 🙂

It is a sad state of affairs as the many posts on the subject will testify. There are noises from COCT that they are getting serious about wanting your excess power but we will see if that translates to more realistic regulations and sensible procedures - never mind feed-in tariffs that will not take you to the cleaners with COCT scoring all the way. 

In the meantime we have thousands of "illegal" solar systems in COCT with no hope of complying as they don't fit into the limited COCT World view. While "safety" is again and again stated as the motivator the reality, as we know, is that 99% of the systems out there are in fact safe and certified to IEC standards. Yes no doubt there are a couple of badly done DIY jobs around (and more every day now as people start connecting their generators to a spare plug in the house). However the systems we are talking about here are not the problem at all.

We can only hope that some sort of sanity with prevail at COCT as right now, it's a complete fail...

I am a newbie to this forum and that was my first post.  Quite incredible the response.  My concerns were meeting with the council who first told me the inverter is not on the list, then came the explanation from my side that this instrument  (inverter) plugs into a wall socket and what it supplies runs on a separate circuit, another 45 minutes discussion and the the ccc official then said to me that you mean it is like a uninterupted power supply and only powers batteries when required.  Then I was confused,,,,I went to a supplier of the Axpert 3KVA inverters and asked what his opinion was.  He said no problem you list it as an uninterupted power supply even though you are powering with PV panels.  I was then again confused so I thought I would join the foum and am surprised what my first post has produced.  The first reply was from plonkster who I understand to say this is the law.  I decided to follow his advice and have disconnected my inverter from the mains.  He also said please look for other posts on this issue as it is old hat but so far I have found none except the new posts that came about as a result of my post.  But what I did find in my search were numerous posts where people were encouraged to buy an Axpert MPPT inverter and I am now even more confused.  Time is running out and I dont need a heavy fine and then have no return on money spent. So  I have followed plonkster and disconnected the inverter from the mains - I have also a manual bypass switch which will send the mains through my entire system if I switch over but excludes the inverter.  So during the day it will be solar and batteries and at night full CCC powe or if there is a power failure I will have a back up.  But does this Council or Eskom know where they are going.  It is Don Quixote going after windmills at the ratepayers expense.  What stops me connecting up after being inspected for the off grid COC.  I have also been told that in JHB there were people that would provide a COC unsighted as long as you paid the money.  So now maybe you know where I am coming from, and if you do, please advise so that I can comply before being threatened or taken to court by the Council.

It is just astounding how we are being misled and oppressed by those in government entities in whom we placed our trust.  The  president would have us believe that electricity supply failure will be solved but at what cost and when. So far it has been an ongoing downward slide so where is the bottom.  I would be inclined to bet on open fires and candles.  Then there is the matter of the R450 billion plus debt of Eskimo which will be paid by the consumer as there is no other source of funds in the final analysis. 

Jokes aside,  a friend whose son is a particularly gifted IT specialist,  living in Brighton,  UK,  is being paid monthly by the municipality for his installed solar generating capacity, not what he feeds into the grid. Likewise was @The Bulldog's post of what he observed and learned during his recent visit to Australia most revealing of how another first world country deals with solar energy. 

Somehow the message needs to be made public. Although there is much to learn on this forum, we primarily are preaching to the converted. Perhaps if we all write to the media and our members of Parliament, both national and provincial and post on whatever social media is available, those in ivory towers will start taking notice,  particularly with an election around the corner. The many posts on this forum on the subject, has proven the knowledge and eloquence of members.  Then there is Greenpeace, who for all their loudmouth propaganda about climate change, has been deafeningly quiet on the extreme regulations here and the unnecessary high costs of certication. Yet I have not seen media reports of a single prosecution of the many who make illegal and really dangerous connections to the grid and steal energy. 

Edited March 22, 20196 yr by ebrsa
Spelling corrections.

29 minutes ago, ebrsa said:

The  president would have us believe that electricity supply failure will be solved

Something I enjoy doing is looking for implicit admissions. When people are talking about a different topic and a little ship sails in the middle of it. Take Ramaphosa's analogy of the current electricity crisis and apartheid, and that they will be overcome the same way.

So hang on... that sounds to me like an admission: That the new government has now done something on the same scale and severity as the old one to its citizens, and hence we can finally say we are quits? You're going to stop blaming the descendants of the colonialists for everything? Right?

(Of course not... it was a very very bad analogy... but one can dream).

It becomes worse when you also say (as he did) that Electricity is a basic human right. That turns this entire fiasco into a human right's abuse.

(Again, I don't see electricity as a _basic_ human right in a positive sense, as in that there is an obligation for someone to give it to you, I see it more as a negative human right, that no law may be made to keep it away from you, akin with water and freedom... but again... implicit little admissions that comes back to bite you).

I fitted a 2-pole isolation switch with OFF as follows where a) is incoming mains supply, b) is one circuit of house c) is inverter in and d) is inverter out

0 = No circuit
1 = DB out connected to DB in (a --- b)
2 = DB out connected to inverter and inverter out to one circuit of house (a --- c) (d --- b)

The Council inspector maintains that this proves it is a grid-tied system since power can be flowing from the inverter to a house circuit, even with no incoming power

During no power (load-shedding or switching off the main switch) there is no connection between the one circuit and the incoming mains, I cannot see how it can present a danger to Council employees who might work on the lines.  I measured the incoming mains during load shedding and the meter showed 000VAC

Council rejected the Off-grid Declaration and sent me this 10 page Grid-tied form and instructed me to switch off and disconnect the system until they have approved the plan.

I was also advised that the Inverter is not on the approved list and a BACO switch is not SABS approved, thus cannot be used as an isolation switch.  Electro-Mechanica, who sell BACO switches, maintain they are

There is also what appears to me to be an ambiguous sentence in the declaration which reads:

 

A Certificate of Compliance (CoC) and test report is required only if an off-grid installation is integrated and interlocked with a change-over switch between the utility electricity grid and the customer electrical installation, as follows:
a. Passive standby UPS utilised as off-grid hybrid SSEG as defined in the City’s Requirements for SSEG document, and;
b. SSEG alternative supply in terms of SANS 10142-1: 2017

The only way to get it declared off-grid is to remove the A-C link (the AC input on the inverter). If it has an AC input and PV modules attached, it falls under NRS097-2-1. According to that, you can use a UPS (with DC-tied PV) as long as there is a suitably interlocked changeover switch. If the inverter/UPS complies with SANS 60947-6-1 or IEC 60947-6-1 then technically it already has this built in... but good luck convincing anyone of that (whether you have it or not).

On the upside, apparently a new estimate says that an combined ANC+EFF alliance might well unseat the DA in the Western Cape. If that happens... then at least all the work done so for for SSEG will be flushed down the drain and we can return to old-west rules... 🙂

16 hours ago, chrisc said:

Council rejected the Off-grid Declaration and sent me this 10 page Grid-tied form and instructed me to switch off and disconnect the system until they have approved the plan.

For off-grid, when I looked at it, I needed completely separate circuits installed (had that already), powered by the inverter only, to not confuse anyone.

I have fitted a 2-pole changeover switch as follows:

0 = No circuit
1 = DB out back to DB in (bypass mode)
2 = DB out to inverter in and inverter in to DB in

The electrician confirmed and also showed me with measurements that if the incoming power is off, the inverter only supples AC power to one house circuit and there is no connection to the incoming mains

Council were advised of this and said a physical inspection might be done (which I would have to be paid for)