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Wind to supplement a Goodwe Inverter

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I know these posts get confusing real easy, I am just after basic simple information if at all possible.

I have an IQ of room temperature in winter and it is damn cold at the moment to make matters worse.

We have 2 Goodwe 4.6 inverters on two properties, Pylontech batteries on both, and all works well for us.

Due to nature of our business, we use about 50% of our electricity during the day and about 50% at night.

During the day the Goodwes supply enough power to make us zero importers of power during daylight hours unless the tumble driers, hair driers, oil fin heaters suddenly all get turned on at once. Then we have to purchase from the Eskom meter for those times we drawing heavily.

So daytime all good, we 100% happy.We can make and consume 100Kw no problem in summer and in winter we seem to do about 60Kw a day on cold days when the heaters are on.

But at night, especially in summer, our aircons draw a lot of power. We have 15 air cons that may all be on at the same time over the 2 properties.

How can we add wind power into our mixhuh.gif

Apparently this was easy in times gone by with older lead acid batteries, but now with modern inverters and algorithms and programming et al, this is not so easy. 

Obviously the solar panels will not make power at night, but in summer, we do have very strong and consistent winds that blow from 16h00 to 24h00 almost every day. Speed is over 20 kilos per hour all the time.

With what we have, how can we harness the wind. Yes, must put up a turbine, well understood, but can the Goodwes take this extra unknown power source?

Any advice and input appreciated.

Cheers.
 

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Hi there. Hope well. As of now we are only able to connect wind turbines directly to a battery bank. The Turbine has its own charge controller.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely

Jason 

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2 minutes ago, Energy said:

As of now we are only able to connect wind turbines directly to a battery bank. The Turbine has its own charge controller.

Hi Jason

I was busy on Pegasys systems right now, looking at options. Theoretically, if he connects it to the battery's and keep the voltage setting below 53, the wind turbine will only contribute to the system if the voltage goes below the set point. but with Pylontech and the BMS setup, do you think its safe? There will be no control between the Goodwe and the charge controller, what would prevent the battery's from over charging?

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Thanks all. For any lithium battery we make use of the Bornay Turbines. They have been tested and calibrated for lithium. I am just on mobile at the moment but will send the testing pics when back at desk. For the moment here is the Bornay costing and brochure attached. Do stand by for testing images on the pylontech.

Sincerely

Jason 

Wind_Turbine_Costing_2019 (3).pdf

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I have an of grid solar system, consisting of 18x330w solar panels, 2 x 5Kva Mercer expert inverters, 6 x 3,5Kva Pylon-tech batteries, I am adding a 5000w wind turbine, I have a charge controller, but it has no option to add a dump load, will this be safe to use without damaging my batteries. Can I use a separate 5Kva inverter for this instead, to control the charge of the batteries and prevent it from over charging due to the two points of charge 

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Posted (edited)
On 2019/06/15 at 2:06 PM, Energy said:

Do stand by for testing images on the pylontech

Good morning,

Any feedback on this testing? Does the charge controller communicate with the pylontech batteries? Or is the control still the simple voltage measure?

 

Best regards,

Herman

Edited by Herman

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Hi Guys the Bornay wind turbine Mppts work perfectly with Lithium batteries and Pegasus systems will soon have a MPPT based controller available for the HYE turbines that allows for a wide range of voltage adjustments to suit most lithium batteries these adjustments can be made by the installer to suit the voltage ranges of the Battery system lithium or lead acid.

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@SteveFury Can you describe the "works perfectly" (the Bornay wind turbine mppt)?  Is it based on voltage settings, or does it allow the battery bms to dictate the charging?

Another question, closely relating to this, is does it communicate with Victron via can-bus? I am asking this such that one can get generation stats on VRM.

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The MPPT controller that comes with the turbine allows for a wide voltage adjustment range this design feature is included in the controller. It connects directly with the lithium battery bank 24v or 48v most of the Bornay turbines have 220v gensets.

The MPPT has an RS458 port however I do not know how to integrate monitoring with Victron systems. The are only a few inverter brands I know of that makes specific provisions for wind turbines one of the is Sunsynk range however the Ideal nominal DC Voltage range for the turbine needs to be between 150v and 400v DC the minimum input voltage on a Sunsynk mppt is 125v and startup voltage is 150v so Ideal DC input voltage in my opinion is between 300v and 400v this would mean the turbine will produce power at low wind speeds and peak at 300 or 400 volt. I am in the process of getting my suppliers to supply me with a suitable turbine and controller with the correct DC voltage output on its controller with dumpload to work with the Sunsynk range inverters. 

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46 minutes ago, SteveFury said:

The MPPT controller that comes with the turbine allows for a wide voltage adjustment range this design feature is included in the controller

On 2019/06/15 at 1:58 PM, Jaco de Jongh said:

Theoretically, if he connects it to the battery's and keep the voltage setting below 53, the wind turbine will only contribute to the system if the voltage goes below the set point. but with Pylontech and the BMS setup, do you think its safe? There will be no control between the Goodwe and the charge controller, what would prevent the battery's from over charging?

It seems as Jaco's proposal is the only way then.  I share the concern for an potential over current (if working in parallel to solar) or temperature event, damaging the Pylons.

I understand that wind is limited relative to solar, but given the right circumstances, it does make sense.

I have the privilege to have a farm in Namaqualand, right on the escarpment, with fresh winds almost as prevalent as the sun.  While we do not have many cloudy days, they do happen. Having no grid, my options is either to increase the battery bank, or get wind (or start the 1946 Lister). In this scenario, one cannot compare wind costs with solar.  The correct way is to compare it with battery costs, and then it start to make financial sense.

It is amazing that it seems there are no small wind turbine manufacturer that is investing in R&D anymore? Lithium batteries is almost mainstream now, and with that, voltage control on its own does not make sense. I think there an opportunity here for someone like @plonkster to develop a simple interface.  Read the instructions from the battery bms and translate that to a "voltage state" that the wind controller understand and obey.

Adding the "nice" to this to give information through to GX or ICC will be a bonus.

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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

It is amazing that it seems there are no small wind turbine manufacturer that is investing in R&D anymore? Lithium batteries is almost mainstream now, and with that, voltage control on its own does not make sense. I think there an opportunity here for someone like @plonkster to develop a simple interface.  Read the instructions from the battery bms and translate that to a "voltage state" that the wind controller understand and obey.

I'm not really sure what the problem is. Many so-called wind controllers are just DC/DC converters (with a three-phase rectifier to make it DC first), ie they are MPPTs, and with some kind of brake mechanism (which just shorts the windings together iirc). Since controlling an MPPT from a BMS is a problem that is already solved, this should already be doable...

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3 minutes ago, Energy said:

The Bornay kit

There is a half-finished driver for the Bornay turbines that work with Victron GX devices too. If there is enough demand, maybe that project can get some momentum again... it sort of fizzled out.

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4 hours ago, Energy said:

Hi Guys. I can do lithium . The Bornay kit. Brochure attached is fully ready for Pylontech. 

We also expanding to other batterys. 

Brochure attached.

We are in process of testing our More budget freindly machines as well. All is well so far.

Sincerely

Jason

Bornay_Wind_Turbine_Brochure_2020.pdf 3.92 MB · 4 downloads

Thats Correct we are wotking on a few Alternitive options and I believe we will have workable solutions for the Victron and Sunsynk very soon. Dumploads are integrated with the mppt controllers already.

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There was an interesting article I read a while back. The study looked at small scale wind turbines in EU and UK and compared their lifespan vs power generated. Their conclusion in the end was that anything smaller than a 3m blade is not viable as your maintenance and capital cost is never recovered during the lifespan of the wind turbine. 

It sounds like the maintenance is much higher than PV panels because of the moving parts\friction. 

Is this still the case, or has turbine maintenance improved to make this more viable? 

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7 hours ago, Louisvdw said:

Their conclusion in the end was that anything smaller than a 3m blade is not viable as your maintenance and capital cost is never recovered

Louis, I think it might still be true.  But compare it to battery costs when no grid is available (and enough wind is), and I believe it is a viable option (with solar giving the base load). My neighbor has been running a wind turbine for the last 16 years, with minimal maintenance cost, supplying him with all his power needs.  He still use lead acid's and I am not keen for that. I just believe that there is a big part of the word that do not have access to the grid, where this might be viable.  Not for 100 turbine manufacturers, but for a few.  My neighbor will need to replace his turbine in the next few years, and I can promise you that proper integration with lithium with put that supplier on the top of the list of possibles.

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I agree there a properly maintained turbine can last many years as long as you replace parts that wear like the the three main bearings two in the genset an one set in the neck of the turbine quality Turbines allow for this kind of maintenance and the cost of quality bearings are very low and extend the lifespan of the machines considerably. The tower design is important for ease of maintenance so Ginpole design or hydraulic towers make maintenance a simple opperation. Wind power is always a good compliment too Solar power and has an tangable affect on extending the battery life of a system if there is sufficient wind available any area with an average wind of 6meters per second and more is viable though the power produced and ROI is longer than solar power it pays for itself in the benifet it provides for the battery. Sadly very few people understand the technology and due to that and bad quality cheap china imports few people take the leap to invest in wind power.

Also from a maintenance point of view if you wait for the turbine to break then fixing it is near impossible especially if the stator interfered with the windings...where breakdowns can be avoided with propper maintenance by replacing the inexpensive bearings before they go... most turbines have 3 bearings and by doing this you can get your turbine to work reliably for more than 50 years with that said quality Turbines I have installed a lot of small scale turbines between 300 watt and 5KW and they have made a lot of difference but maintaining them is important..

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Grease and Seals deteriorate with age, hence bearing failure! For this reason you'll be lucky to find a car manufacturer that will guarantee your car for more than 5 years.

Nevertheless, a little maintenance can make your car last just about FOREVER, same is true for turbines.

I have been donated two turbines that were "faulty". I did some basic testing on both and found no trouble on the wiring of either unit. The one unit had a seized neck bearing, bit the slip-ring was still perfect. I removed the bearing and sourced a suitable (better quality) replacement from my local bearing wholesaler. From what I could gather, both machines were "China-Specials"

I sold one unit at a very reasonable price and donated the other to a friend of mine where the machine is serving him just fine!

The cost of bearings for  Repair/Service was less than R 300-00 per machine!

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