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Connecting a Carlo Gavazzi ET112 to Victron CCGX


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I was surprised at how user friendly Carlo's are. 

Here is a quick explanation on one way to Connect a Carlo As a Grid meter to the Victron CCGX.

  • You will need the following:

2092745141_CarloGav.JPG.aba7a49bc415607b49548871be76066d.JPGVic.JPG.efc2876c8ba09a8a451e8033158b4d55.JPGCrimper.JPG.00922d2b4ab4f02112a31ac8a690b8d0.JPGrj45.JPG.81ff60c83ec4a6d106b46627e6dbef79.JPGGX.JPG.f6a0d05d23dca51a88130ee3ca24e243.JPGOR Color.JPG.5ace602bb535132f265e8843812d1ac6.JPG

and depending on how many USB devices are already connected to the CCGX device, you might need a USb.JPG.e74ac5b462fc3ca08a72a7e35ba0a721.JPG

 

  • Instalation:
  • Install the meter preferably at you main incomer (Main Breaker)  and Connect as follows:
  • Point 1,2 & N is clearly marked on the Energy meter. 
  •  Connection.JPG.fb763ae58dc4808191f678d4df78e6d8.JPG
  • Switch the power on. 
  • Crimp a RJ45 connector to the open end of the Victron USB to RS485 interface using the following pin-out:
  •  Pinout.JPG.a647ac8124bfd6fb1dd8c33f05360e9d.JPG
  • The cable comes with 6 wires, I just removed the 3 unused ones. 
  • Plug the RJ45 into the provided adapter on the Energy meter as well as the USB into the CCGX device. 
  • Log into the CCGX device and the Energy meter (Grid Meter) should show immediately. 
  • Grid.JPG.1030b964373f8db4fa66157ce962d2af.JPG
  • Navigate to Settings-ESS-Grid Meter Installed and "Flip" the Button on. 
  • 374095010_Gridon.JPG.6b806fc482bf01505b2fb46ad99b5cd1.JPG
  • No additional configuration is needed and the ESS will start feeding excess solar power to the loads in front of the Inverter.  

 

 

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  • 8 months later...

Long time reader, first time poster here.

I successfully wired up an ET112 for PV yield on the output of my Quattro.  I have since added a second ET112 at the grid connection point in order to feed the right amount of power back towards the input side of my Quattro.

I wired up the 485 cable from the grid metering ET112 to the same USB connector going to the Color GX.  It appears as though the current ET112s automatically assign themselves non-conflicting addresses - judging by the fact that the Color GX picked up the second ET112 and I could configure it as "grid meter" on the GX.  However, it is not measuring the grid usage correctly.  

Color GX shows Grid, AC loads, Critical loads and PV inverter boxes and the PV inverter measurement is correct.  Critical loads measurement appears correct.  AC loads (quattro input side) reads zero.

ESS/Grid meter installed is set to on.

VRM webpage device list however has TWO "PV Inverter" devices (addresses 30 and 32) and lists the "position" of both as "AC output".  While this is correct for the PV yield meter (30) it is obviously incorrect for the grid meter (32).  There is no option in the GX to set where the grid meter is installed, like there is with the PV yield meter.

Any suggestions of what might be wrong here?

Paul

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1 hour ago, Paulcupine said:

Any suggestions of what might be wrong here?

That sounds really weird. First off, did you wire both meters using a single RS485 cable (in which case you must use the software from carlo gavazzi to move one of them to address 2), or did you use separate cables?

If you used separate cables, then the first one gets DeviceInstance 30, and the next one 32 (31 is used when L2 on a 3-phase meter is used t piggy-back a PV-inverter). There is however a problem when two new energy meters are plugged into a GX device and the system autodetects them for the first time, so then you have to unplug one, boot the system, then plug in the other one, to ensure they are detected one after the other.

1 hour ago, Paulcupine said:

VRM webpage device list however has TWO "PV Inverter" devices (addresses 30 and 32) and lists the "position" of both as "AC output".  While this is correct for the PV yield meter (30) it is obviously incorrect for the grid meter (32).  There is no option in the GX to set where the grid meter is installed, like there is with the PV yield meter.

It sounds like you have the Role misconfigured for one of them.

Selection_486.png.37106eb56785b57eeeb7c062a76c3b10.png

Edited by plonkster
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The configuration on the GX is definitely correct.  The first one is set as PV yield (on ac output) and the other as "grid" where I cannot set where it is connected.  Nevertheless VRM showed ET112 (32) position ac output.

I have since deleted both devices in VRM and then rebooted the color GX.  Now only the one ET112 is showing.  I think I have a comms problem to the other ET112.

 

48203289_1gxdisplay.png.ed036b4775081f4b9d86d7c614ef4097.png

 

489098768_2meters.png.b8b6e5e9caeadd008aadc398824e1def.png

1049595783_3vrmdevicelist.png.4c0b6af922f32409f9ddc9a65613573c.png

 

Is the "device instance" an ID assigned by the GX, or is it something read from the ET112?  The electrician said that the ET112s automatically pick a non-conflicting address if wired onto the same RS485 connection (I have only one).  This is contrary to what I have read here and elsewhere on the subject, but I thought perhaps it was newer Gavazzi firmware that did this that hadn't made its way into the forums yet.

Thanks to the efforts of others on the forum here, I have the Gavazzi configuration tool.  I will give that a go this evening.

Paul

 

 

 

1 gx display.png

Edited by Paulcupine
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5 minutes ago, Paulcupine said:

VRM showed

VRM also remembers devices, so if something was initially configured as one device, and then changed into another kind, then the old one might persist on VRM until you delete it. So that might be what you observed.

The real question is whether the device shows up on the device list on the GX device.

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So it was the modbus address.  An ill-informed electrician and confusion about what Victron device ids are led me up the garden path.  I changed the address of one of the meters and now everything is working correctly.  Along the way I learned that the rule of thumb around transmission line effects is that one ignores them below a quarter wave length.  A 9600 baud signal is near enough to 10kHz which would have a wavelength of 30km.  So one need to think about extra termination on the RS485 until you have several kilometers of cable - certainly not a concern at the length of cable I have (~50m).

 

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1 hour ago, Paulcupine said:

So it was the modbus address.

Yup, it is a bit confusing at first. The GX device acts like a modbus-TCP gateway itself, and the deviceinstance is the same as the modbus address on that side... BUT... there is also a modbus-RTU cable running between the Gx device and the meter, and that uses either id=1 (factory default) or id=2.

The software supports putting two meters on the same cable, but the manual actually tells people to put one meter per cable (because of the amount of trouble and support questions generated by bad splicing and long cables etc etc. So a by-the-book installation would use two separate usb-rs485 cables, and both meters would use the factory default address of 1 (which is fine... each have their own cable). On the Venus side they will be assigned deviceinstance numbers 30 and 32, and if you then accessed them via the modbus-TCP gateway, they would be addressed with those numbers.

Yes, it gets complex quickly 🙂

The modbus cabling is not terminated because 1) the cable already terminates one end, and 2) as you say, termination is only needed on really long cables and/or high speeds. Adding termination will however not hurt. And I seem to recall that there is a terminator on the meter already, just put a wire bridge in the relevant place... though I cannot remember where and how.

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  • 5 months later...
On 2019/06/22 at 10:42 PM, Jaco de Jongh said:

 

I was surprised at how user friendly Carlo's are. 

Here is a quick explanation on one way to Connect a Carlo As a Grid meter to the Victron CCGX.

  • You will need the following:

2092745141_CarloGav.JPG.aba7a49bc415607b49548871be76066d.JPGVic.JPG.efc2876c8ba09a8a451e8033158b4d55.JPGCrimper.JPG.00922d2b4ab4f02112a31ac8a690b8d0.JPGrj45.JPG.81ff60c83ec4a6d106b46627e6dbef79.JPGGX.JPG.f6a0d05d23dca51a88130ee3ca24e243.JPGOR Color.JPG.5ace602bb535132f265e8843812d1ac6.JPG

and depending on how many USB devices are already connected to the CCGX device, you might need a USb.JPG.e74ac5b462fc3ca08a72a7e35ba0a721.JPG

 

  • Instalation:
  • Install the meter preferably at you main incomer (Main Breaker)  and Connect as follows:
  • Point 1,2 & N is clearly marked on the Energy meter. 
  •  Connection.JPG.fb763ae58dc4808191f678d4df78e6d8.JPG
  • Switch the power on. 
  • Crimp a RJ45 connector to the open end of the Victron USB to RS485 interface using the following pin-out:
  •  Pinout.JPG.a647ac8124bfd6fb1dd8c33f05360e9d.JPG
  • The cable comes with 6 wires, I just removed the 3 unused ones. 
  • Plug the RJ45 into the provided adapter on the Energy meter as well as the USB into the CCGX device. 
  • Log into the CCGX device and the Energy meter (Grid Meter) should show immediately. 
  • Grid.JPG.1030b964373f8db4fa66157ce962d2af.JPG
  • Navigate to Settings-ESS-Grid Meter Installed and "Flip" the Button on. 
  • 374095010_Gridon.JPG.6b806fc482bf01505b2fb46ad99b5cd1.JPG
  • No additional configuration is needed and the ESS will start feeding excess solar power to the loads in front of the Inverter.  

 

 

What type of fuse and size cable do you wire from N to N?

Thanks

Mark

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4 hours ago, Mark said:

What type of fuse and size cable do you wire from N to N?

This part often causes confusion and people wonder why that fuse is there. Let me see if I can explain.

That neutral wire, which would normally be black in colour, carries only the current required for the electronics of the meter itself. The red wires between terminals 1 and 2, they carry the big stuff. Since that black wire only carries a few milliamps, it does not have to be a very thick wire. It can be as thin as 1.5mm^2. And under normal conditions, that would be all that is ever needed. But you have to cater for what happens under not-normal conditions, aka fault conditions.

Under a fault condition inside the meter, that meter might be dead-shorted from either terminals 1 or 2 to neutral. It is unlikely, but you have to cater for that. In that case, you must have overcurrent protection for that thin black wire, so that the wire itself does not turn into a small heating element that burns down the house. That's what the fuse is for.

The fuse just needs to be sized for (or smaller than) the wire. In this case something like a 5A fuse will be more than sufficient. It is less than the wire can carry, so it protects the wire, but way more than the meter will ever need to operate.

But... you can also just leave the fuse out. But then you must size that black wire for the full current of whatever the upstream breaker is. Since this meter is usually installed right after the big 60A breaker that feeds the house, that black wire must be sized for 60A then, that is to say, it would have to be a 10mm^2. This is what I see most installers do, they just use a thick enough black wire.

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5 hours ago, Mark said:

What type of fuse

As for this side of the question, if you want to use a fuse and make it nice and neat, I'd look for a 10x35mm DIN-mount fuse holder that can install inside the DB, and put a 5A fuse in it. But these 10x38 fuses can be expensive. Or you could use one of these glass fuse holders with an ordinary glass fuse rated for 250VAC. Or just use a 5A breaker...

Edited by plonkster
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7 hours ago, plonkster said:

As for this side of the question, if you want to use a fuse and make it nice and neat, I'd look for a 10x35mm DIN-mount fuse holder that can install inside the DB, and put a 5A fuse in it. But these 10x38 fuses can be expensive. Or you could use one of these glass fuse holders with an ordinary glass fuse rated for 250VAC. Or just use a 5A breaker...

Thanks plonkster... wired spec'd for breaker would be a better option for me... in the 1 N and out the other.

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21 hours ago, Mark said:

What type of fuse and size cable do you wire from N to N?

Because this is a monitoring device and not a load, I use a 2.5mm neutral wire from the load side of the main breaker/Neutral bar (Before the inverter) to one of the 2 poles. No fuse needed as non of the other neutral wires in your board are fused.

It literary only gives a return path for the current that is drawn by the electronic circuits, and even in the highly unlikely, very slim, 1 in a million change that a dead short might occur within this device.. the electronic circuit should fry long before it reaches the 25Amp rating of a 2.5mm wire.. 

This is just my 2 cents worth...  

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On 2020/08/29 at 12:04 PM, Jaco de Jongh said:

That is correct.. although i have seen 10mm used on a 60amp breaker over very short distances. I still prefer the 16mm... 

other than being slightly more expensive, 16mm cable is really difficult to work with. Most DB terminals also don’t cater for this size. Becomes even more difficult when you  need to add 2 cables onto a circuit breaker. 
 

I ran a new 16mm 3 core armored cable from my DB1 to DB2 as I originally used 10mm, but realized my main eskom feed is also 10mm. 

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7 hours ago, Vassen said:

Most DB terminals also don’t cater for this size

Oh I so agree with that. Last night (while the power was out and I nobody could be upset because I switched it off) I quickly swapped ab RCD on the grid side, and of course the L and N was the other way round from the original and suddenly the short neutral wire going down to the busbar was 1cm too short and I had to make a new. Oh my goodness, what an impossible medium to work with on short distances! 🙂

 

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47 minutes ago, Louisvdw said:

I totally agree. I felt like a smithy in the middle ages hammering away on those big cables to make them fit nicely. 🔨

I sometimes use long nosed pliers to move things around. I know it's not a traditional sparky's tool, but it works 🙂

So in this case, the job I have to do is split my essential loads across two RCDs. The standing loss over just the one is 13mA (about one modern appliance away from nuisance tripping), and when the inverter does its relay test the additional DC testing current plus transients when it opens and closes the bonding relay throws the RCD. Old problem that comes back every time a new appliance is added or an old one is replaced. Drives me nuts.

But I had no space in the DB (the age old problem), but there is this BIG RCD from back in the 80s/90s that takes up 4 spaces. So last night I replaced that with a more modern CBI QA17C (those things actually have exceptional specs), and then later I will get permission from the minister of internal affairs to take the other half of the DB down and split the other loads.

🙂

 

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45 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Oh I so agree with that. Last night (while the power was out and I nobody could be upset because I switched it off) I quickly swapped ab RCD on the grid side, and of course the L and N was the other way round from the original and suddenly the short neutral wire going down to the busbar was 1cm too short and I had to make a new. Oh my goodness, what an impossible medium to work with on short distances! 🙂

 

They should have really made it a standard. 
It seems that it’s mainly CBI that has the live on the left.  
 

I had to make a plan and replace the distribution Blocks on the new DB 

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  • 4 months later...
On 2020/08/29 at 10:47 AM, Fuenkli said:

i believe that according to SANS the minimum size for 60A is 16mm^2

good luck wiring 2P with 16mm on a 36MU-45MU load control and isolator panel, it is a lot easier to specify 40A continuous at 10mm with C50 MCB

Edited by CCC Energy
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