Jump to content

Axpert MKS II 5kW Error 08


Recommended Posts

Here are some more details, if it is any help.

Attached is a screenshot of the logs as Error 08 occurs.  Here are the recorded fault details:

[2020-03-04 15:49:26] Send: QFS
[2020-03-04 15:49:27] [401ms] Return: (01 08 04 2067 2004 0044 222.3 49.84 222.4 49.83 000.0 471.8 53.0 057 204ニ￲
[2020-03-04 15:49:35] Send: QFAULT
[2020-03-04 15:49:36] [298ms] Return: (08 04 2067 2004 0044 471.8 53.0 222.3 49.84 222.44e

I can't find any documentation on the format of the output, but can make fair guesses as to which is which. Looks like charge current was ramping down.  Battery voltage dropped, and it increased charge current again before bus voltage went to 471V and it tripped.

ss.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 199
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@charlez - I don't think the suppliers are even aware of this issue with the inverter! Here is the circuit The heart of the isolater, is the LD03-16B12 (AC/DC Converter Vin = 90-528VAC

I did put up a fuss with Voltronic themselves regardings this issue.  At first they gave me a lame answer as follows : "Per your information below, it means error 08 was caused by the surge from

@charlez has pointed me to this information from the official Axpert MKS II manual: 14. WARNING: Because this inverter is non-isolated, only three types of PV modules are acceptable: single cryst

Posted Images

11 hours ago, JustinSchoeman said:

I have a new Full Circle Solar 5kW inverter.  I think it is a Voltronic VMII. Running firmware 20.13, which the supplier says is the latest. 1 Narada 48V, 100A LFP battery, and no solar (only used as a UPS).  Still under warranty, and running test after test for the supplier, trying to trace the issue...

Also getting these 08 errors.  They have occurred numerous time, but in 2 situations:

1) Charge current set to 20A. Battery fully charged, grid connected, on bypass around 400W load between midnight and 2AM.

2) Charge current set to 60A. Load 2000W. Run on battery for 15 minutes, then reconnect grid. Error 08 occurs after around 10 minutes when it goes from CC to CC charge (charge current starts ramping down).

It has not (yet) occurred with charge current set to 10A.

The battery never shows an alarm light (which I assume it would if the BMS had tripped).

Not sure if this is the same issue as the others are having.  The symptoms make no sense to me, unless BMS is cutting the battery and voltage is spiking...

Are you 100% sure you do not have any floating/mixed neutrals?

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JustinSchoeman said:

I have also tested with removing the load DB connection and placing an isolated load directly onto the inverter output.  Still generated the same error.

Must be an inverter issue, looks like you battery voltage quite stable in that view above. I got the 08 error when the inverter was switched to grid for a longish period. It may have had a neutral wiring problem which may be sorted. Still monitoring.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, JustinSchoeman said:

I think it is a Voltronic VMII. Running firmware 20.13, which the supplier says is the latest.

Huh. Assuming that your machine really is an Axpert VM II, there is a VM II firmware file version 20.44 on this very forum, here. It's not guaranteed to be later than 20.13, but it sure seems like it might be. Oh, but it's for an Inverex, and those seem to be slightly modified versions of the standard Axperts. So I don't know if it's worth trying it.

Edit: the download file has "V2043" in the file name, but it's actually version 20.44 internally. They must have had a last minute update and forgot to change the file name.

Edited by Coulomb
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

As others have mentioned, this problem seems to occur at night after a cloudy day.  I can confirm it - it has happened on all 3 days that there was cloud cover!  Always when the inverter is in bypass mode, so solar definitely is not a factor.  Batteries should not be a factor, but appear to be!

So now we know when it occurs, but not why.   My inverter is set to use ONLY solar as charge source.  The utility charge current is set to 2A.

I have taken the cover off mine, just after the last incident (around 19h30 on 2020-04-05).  Sure enough the bus voltage was sitting at around 500V.  When I switched the unit off at its own switch, the bus voltage SLOWLY drops, which tells me that there is just about no load on the bus at this stage.  So I have wired 2 230V bulbs in series and connected them to the bus via an alarm panic button.  Obviously after disconnecting the battery and utility and waiting for the bus voltage to drop to 30V or so :)

So after a startup in bypass mode, the bus voltage sits around 375V.  It slowly creeps up (about 10V / hour).  So my theory is that the regulation of the bus voltage under no load conditions, sucks.  Whenever I press the panic button momentarily (getting a lovely flash), the process restarts at 375V...

So there are at least 2 options to handle this problem.

1. Build an electronic switch (Zener + MOSFET) to automatically discharge the bus capacitors whenever they go over 450V in bypass mode.

2. Instead of discharging the capacitors via the external globes, use a transistor to stop the oscillator of the bus circuit.  Much cleaner, but also more difficult.

So for now, I am going to do the panic button thing, but I shall look at option 2 when I feel brave...

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, APV said:

2. Instead of discharging the capacitors via the external globes, use a transistor to stop the oscillator of the bus circuit.

I don't believe that this will work. My understanding is that the bus soft start power supply / oscillator is only used at start-up to pre-charge the bus capacitors. With no load, it charges these capacitors to the ~375 V point (from poor memory) in a few seconds.

So your 10 V per second [ edit: oops! per hour ] bus voltage creep seems more like value drift of the bus voltage sensing resistors. Can you get a bus voltage reading from your software when the multimeter is reading 500 V? Another reading when the unit is cool and the bus voltage is near 375 V would be good.

Edited by Coulomb
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Coulomb said:

I don't believe that this will work. My understanding is that the bus soft start power supply / oscillator is only used at start-up to pre-charge the bus capacitors. With no load, it charges these capacitors to the ~375 V point (from poor memory) in a few seconds.

So your 10 V per second bus voltage creep seems more like value drift of the bus voltage sensing resistors. Can you get a bus voltage reading from your software when the multimeter is reading 500 V? Another reading when the unit is cool and the bus voltage is near 375 V would be good.

 
  On 2019/12/18 at 2:00 PM, APV said:

The voltage differs by 1-2V between my multimeter and what the script says...

The bus voltage is changing very slowly, only by 10V per hour and not by 10V per socond as you wrote.  So yes - it charges very quickly to 380V, and then it starts creeping.  Since the unit is in bypass and it is at night, what else can cause the bus voltage to rise than the soft start oscillator?

Last night when I experienced the problem, I just hit the panic button and the unit did not shutdown again.  I shall delve deeper into the circuit, since the partial circuit diagrams that you have drawn up, are not up to date - - at least the component numbers have changed.  They do give me a good idea of how things interact, though...

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, APV said:

Since the unit is in bypass and it is at night, what else can cause the bus voltage to rise than the soft start oscillator?

[ Edit: sigh. I somehow thought this was about Axpert kings, but the title is about Axpert MKS IIs. So ignore most of the below. ] 

I assumed it would be in line mode, which for Kings is double conversion. So the AC-DC converter produces slightly more power than the DC-AC converter consumes.

Even if you are literally in bypass mode (for efficiency, I guess), the AC-DC converter may be leaking power from the utility input to the bus.

17 hours ago, APV said:

I shall delve deeper into the circuit

It would be good to see some more up to date partial schematics. I'm happy to clean them up and publish them if you want to just post sketches.

Edited by Coulomb
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @Coulomb and @APV. Had the same problem again last night. Yesterday I switched over to grid as it was cloudy. At 3am this morning the 08 error sounded. Load at that stage was around 450w. So a culmination of many hours in bypass mode seems to cause the issue. Have raised the issue with segansolar, the wholesaler here in South Africa but disappointed to report have had no feedback. This is their model:  GX5.48Hybrid Inverter - Off-Grid, KODAK, Storage SystemsKODAK Solar Off-Grid Inverter MKSII 5kW 48V see https://segensolar.co.za/kodak/

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did put up a fuss with Voltronic themselves regardings this issue.  At first they gave me a lame answer as follows :

"Per your information below, it means error 08 was caused by the surge from the grid input. Error 08 means high BUS voltage, if the grid is not stable, and has high voltage spike, it will make the inverter BUS over voltage, then error 08 will happen.

 The inverter will restart when Error 08 happened. But the bus voltage must be lower than 500V. It can restart three times within 15 minutes.  If it exceeds three times, it won’t restart automatically. You will need to turn off the power and restart the inverter manually."

 I told them that the answer was not good enough since we have surge suppression installed and that the grid voltage was 223Vac at the time when the error appeared

I then received the following answer :

"Our RD has prepared updated firmware to improve error 08. Please find the download link below. The password is “daily”.  

 Please upgrade the firmware and check whether error 08 is resolved. "

I hope I achieved progress for all of us

AxpertMKSII5K71.80P.rar

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BvR said:

I did put up a fuss with Voltronic themselves regardings this issue.  At first they gave me a lame answer as follows :

"Per your information below, it means error 08 was caused by the surge from the grid input. Error 08 means high BUS voltage, if the grid is not stable, and has high voltage spike, it will make the inverter BUS over voltage, then error 08 will happen.

 The inverter will restart when Error 08 happened. But the bus voltage must be lower than 500V. It can restart three times within 15 minutes.  If it exceeds three times, it won’t restart automatically. You will need to turn off the power and restart the inverter manually."

 I told them that the answer was not good enough since we have surge suppression installed and that the grid voltage was 223Vac at the time when the error appeared

I then received the following answer :

"Our RD has prepared updated firmware to improve error 08. Please find the download link below. The password is “daily”.  

 Please upgrade the firmware and check whether error 08 is resolved. "

I hope I achieved progress for all of us

AxpertMKSII5K71.80P.rar 1.43 MB · 4 downloads

Great work BvR!  I don't know how you managed to communicate with Voltronic, but I am very impressed!  So now my inverter is running 7.80.  We now have to wait for a cloudy day to see if the issue is resolved....

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, APV said:

Great work BvR!  I don't know how you managed to communicate with Voltronic, but I am very impressed!  So now my inverter is running 7.80.  We now have to wait for a cloudy day to see if the issue is resolved....

Only a pleasure !   Feedback would be greatly appreciated. I also used this forum as a reference to Voltronic to convince them to look into the problem.

Today is certainly a very cloudy day where I live . . .

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020/04/09 at 5:12 PM, Coulomb said:

Ooh! There is BMS command parsing now.

My initial thought was that they had ported the PylonTech battery type == PYL code to this machine. Alas, no.

There is a new command QBMS, which spits out data like BMS battery voltage, maximum charge current, and so on.

This information comes from parsing a new command of the form ^DnnnBMSddd... where nnn is the length of the command, just like a device response from a "secure" command (ones that start with the up-arrow). This seems to use the serial port that is otherwise unused in these models with 450 V max Solar Charge Controllers. That serial port is used to talk to the processor on the Solar Charge Controller in 145 V max SCC models; in the 450 V max SCC models, the DSP controls the PV boost converter directly, and so doesn't need the second serial port.

The maximum charge current value (and likely other values) seems to be actually used; in the case of maximum charge current, it is used instead of the EEPROM maximum charge current setting, if appropriate bits are set. Presumably those bits indicate that the BMS is connected and BMS data is actively being received.

I note that the Pylontech BMS information is in a packet that starts with an up-arrow, but as far as I can tell, the format is different. So this is not directly for PylonTechs. So what is it for? A great question. My wild guess is that Voltronic Power are developing some new interface for battery BMSs, separate from the inverter-chargers themselves, which might translate BMS data from various different battery BMSs into one format, the one indicated above. But I stress that this is a wild guess. I'm further guessing that it's not quite ready yet, but the firmware source code is in the process of incorporating this new functionality, and when a fix for the bus voltage control / error 08 bug was needed, this BMS stuff "came along for the ride".

So while this new BMS code isn't a port of the battery type == PYL code, it might even be something better.

As for what they changed in the way of bus voltage control, I've not found that code as yet. There are plenty of red herrings: variables and functions with "busv" in the name, but aren't used. I may get to it tomorrow my time; I'm curious as to what they've done. With all the BMS code additions, it's not a simple matter of comparing function lengths to see where significant changes have occurred.

Edit 29 June 2020: this command may have been experimental, or have vastly evolved, as noted in this post.

Edited by Coulomb
Added "new" before "command". Added last para.
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, charlez said:

Would this FTDI cable work?

Almost certainly not. There is a standard for RS-232 on an RJ-45 connector, and Axperts don't use it. I imagine that CISCO routers use the standard, or if they used their own, the chances of it being the same as Axperts use would be negligible.

You want one with a male D9 connector on the end, so that you can plug that into the RJ-45 to female D9 connector that should have come with your inverter. The D9 pinout on the Axpert cable is standard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Almost certainly not. There is a standard for RS-232 on an RJ-45 connector, and Axperts don't use it. I imagine that CISCO routers use the standard, or if they used their own, the chances of it being the same as Axperts use would be negligible.

You want one with a male D9 connector on the end, so that you can plug that into the RJ-45 to female D9 connector that should have come with your inverter. The D9 pinout on the Axpert cable is standard.

If you are willing / able to cut off the RJ45 connector and crimp your own RJ45 connector onto the cable, it will work, I believe.  I have done that with my USB-RS232 adapter from Banggood....

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @Coulomb @APV

Going wire like this then:

+-----------+-------------+----------------+----------+-------------+
| Function. | RJ-45 pin # | D9 pin #       | Function |Standard     |
| (PIP)     | Axpert      |(provided cable)|(Computer)|RJ-45 (male) |
+===========+=============+================+==========+=============|
| SGND      | 8 --------- | 5              | SGND     | 4  GND      |
| TD        | 1 --------> | 2  RXD         | RD       | 3  RXD      |
| RD        | 2 <-------- | 3  TXD         | TD       | 6  TXD      |
| +12V      | 7 (or 4)    | NC             |          |             |
+-----------+-------------+----------------+----------+-------------+

Pin assignment at USB RS232-RJ45 male cable side:
1-CTS
2-DSR
3-RXD
4-GND
5-GND
6-TXD
7-DTR
8-RTS

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, charlez said:

Thanks @Coulomb @APV

Going wire like this then:

+-----------+-------------+----------------+----------+-------------+
| Function. | RJ-45 pin # | D9 pin #       | Function |Standard     |
| (PIP)     | Axpert      |(provided cable)|(Computer)|RJ-45 (male) |
+===========+=============+================+==========+=============|
| SGND      | 8 --------- | 5              | SGND     | 4  GND      |
| TD        | 1 --------> | 2  RXD         | RD       | 3  RXD      |
| RD        | 2 <-------- | 3  TXD         | TD       | 6  TXD      |
| +12V      | 7 (or 4)    | NC             |          |             |
+-----------+-------------+----------------+----------+-------------+

Pin assignment at USB RS232-RJ45 male cable side:
1-CTS
2-DSR
3-RXD
4-GND
5-GND
6-TXD
7-DTR
8-RTS

Here is my setup.  All that is important, is that Gnd is connected properly.  If you swop Rx and Tx by accident, it should not damage anything (except that nothing will work).  So basically Tx on the converter goes to Rx on the inverter and vice verca.  The photo indicates where pin 8 on the RJ45 (Gnd) is located...

Good luck

image.png.17ddaa556b83f9f0ef868813326503b2.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, APV said:

If you are willing / able to cut off the RJ45 connector and crimp your own RJ45 connector onto the cable, it will work, I believe.  I have done that with my USB-RS232 adapter from Banggood....

 

 

12 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Almost certainly not. There is a standard for RS-232 on an RJ-45 connector, and Axperts don't use it. I imagine that CISCO routers use the standard, or if they used their own, the chances of it being the same as Axperts use would be negligible.

You want one with a male D9 connector on the end, so that you can plug that into the RJ-45 to female D9 connector that should have come with your inverter. The D9 pinout on the Axpert cable is standard.

Thanks @apv. Would one be able to connect watchpower via the cable just to test it? Have tried this but no luck yet. Need lockdown to end!

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200411_141915.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...