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Saint

evt geyser correct installation?

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hi guys,

 

So to all the experts out there, bought a heat tech hp geyser, and a 18 tube evt solar geyser from sun pays. Can anyone supply a diagram on the piping, on how everything should be piped for the system to work properly, where what valves etc should be... i have no plumbing experience, but is handy enough to install the piping if someone can hopefully guide me as to where what should go ideally. I have the geyser as well as the EVT already installed, i just need to do the pipework...?

 

thanx in advance guys...

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7 hours ago, Saint said:

i just need to do the pipework...?

@Saint, I am no expert with plumbing but have installed my own evt geyser. What I used was the diagram that comes with the pressure regulator, that shows all the pipework and safety for geysers. All geyser are basically the same except for the over temperature valve that has to be added for solar geysers. Than you just add shut-off valves at own discretion for maintenance. In the box when purchasing the geyser there should also be a manual indicating all the parts like inlet, outlet, element, thermo-couple and all the different threaded ports on your specific geyser.

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Hi Guys,

Is there no plumbers or people with plumbing experience on here... finally received a drawing or directions from the sun pays, follow it to the letter, everything installed but the setup is not working. I suspect i am not getting enough or any flow... not sure what the cause can be... i hear the pump "working", took it out and tested it pumping water from a bucket, but then it is obviously not pumping against a head... the temp in the solar collector reaches 104 degrees minutes after the sun rises and never drops, telling me there is not or little water in... wtf is the problem... i am so annoyed with the system by now... and the sun pays seems not interested or unable to guide me to find the error...

 

anyone please.....

 

thanx in advance...

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14 minutes ago, Saint said:

finally received a drawing or directions from the sun pays, follow it to the letter

if possible please post the drawing/directions you received. It will help us to trouble shoot your problem.

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Hi Fuenkli....

 

sorry makes sense... i followed these instructions below... first updating and ensuring my exising installation was corrected if not according to standard or sabs installation standards... although again for the record i am no plumber, although looking at kwikot diagrams my existing geyser had one or two smaller installation errors i first corrected before installing the evt geyser as per installation instruction... only thing i did differently was installing an additional non return valve (flapper type) after pump, but thought this should be better and actually help....

 

have a look and fire away... i will appreciate any advise or things i can check since i am frustrated crazy and at my wits end with this installation....

 

as mentioned i think it is a flow issue, when i open i warm water tap or shower while pump is running during the day there is sometimes excessive noise, maybe pump cavitating... but why can't it feed enough water from geyser... pump inlet and outlet is 15mm i used 22mm coper pipe to connect with reducer to ensure enough water is fed... this thing drives me mental....

 

😞

Retrofit Instructions 2019.pdf

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The best way is the Alternative installation with the pump on the cold water side . The none return valve just after the pump is fine .The flapper tipe none return valve might be a problem The weight of the flapper depending on the tipe of pump used (12 v or 220 v) . I used a  straight valve with a disk and very light spring with the 12 v pump . I used this layout with vacuum tubes and flatpanel and works fine .

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17 hours ago, Saint said:

have a look and fire away

i agree with @Chris Louw that the alternate installation is the better option. Although both methods should work. But for safety reasons (if you are using the standard method) make sure there is a mixing (anti scalding) valve in the geyser hot water outlet.

18 hours ago, Saint said:

the temp in the solar collector reaches 104 degrees minutes after the sun rises

this indicates that there is no water flowing through the collector. This could be because the system is not filled with water or the pump is not working. Ensure that the air release valve is working and installed at the highest point in the collector water circuit. Also check again that the pump is working and correctly installed. 

 

18 hours ago, Saint said:

only thing i did differently was installing an additional non return valve (flapper type) after pump

if you design the system with anti syphon loops there is no need for a non return valve     

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hi Guys,

 

Thanx for the replies so far... that is what i can understand @Fuenkli... i can hear the pump is running... i tested with multimeter voltage is 16volt (dc solar powered pump) but i can even hear it is pumping.... i disconnected the valve, took it out and tested it, working 100%....

 

I had or did install an air release valve... at highest point.... i also reckoned no flow... but %^&*( why... pump is installed at same level as base of geyser so should have sufficeint water feed.....???

 

Oh an i used method one... should maybe try method two.... is about ready to load the whole setup onto my bakkie and dump it at the local trash heap.... 😞

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Posted (edited)

Are you sure you don't have a big air bubble inside the geyser? Is there a way to bleed the air out somehow? Your problem sounds like what happens when my borehole's water tank empties and air gets into the geyser. Its a sukkel to get the air out as the geyser is the high point in the system. Those air valves don't work very well always.

Edited by DeepBass9

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Posted (edited)

Thinking about it, how are those 'vacuum relief valves' supposed to work? On my high pressure geyser I have on both the inlet and outlet as per spec, but It takes a long time to get all of the air out of the tank, and get hot water to the Mrs' bath.

Quote

I had or did install an air release valve... at highest point.... i also reckoned no flow... but %^&*( why... pump is installed at same level as base of geyser so should have sufficeint water feed.....???

Not if the pump is trying to push air out of the way.

There can only be 3 reasons why it doesn't work. Leak, blockage or air bubble. Must be one of them!

I was doing some piping with copper pipes, and the one supplier puts little rubber bungs at the end of the pipes to prevent damage, one of them found its way to inside the pipe, and after soldering it all up beautifully, then cursing and swearing for a day, that there was no water flow, I had to pull all of the pipes apart again and eventually found the problem.  

Edited by DeepBass9

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The vacuum breakers as far as i know, the ones situated at the inlet and outlet of the geyser is only there to prevent the geyser to collapse due to full vacuum and geyser unable to draw air in this event... these work basically like an inverted non return valve as far as i know... if there is water it will push the valve or breaker closed, if it needs air the valve will open to allow air to escape...

 

regarding the air release valve installed at the highest point... i even manually opened this one to let out air until it was only water flwoing out but still no joy... i am also of the opinion there is no flow... maybe some trapped air... but since there is no leaks anywere visible... and i opened all taps for air to release until it is only water i cannot understand why it is not working... and 2 installations... neither is working.... ^&*()_ i am normally quite patient, but have tried everything, and i am 1.98 meters tall, my roof is not exactly a user friendly enviroment for me to work and spend time!

 

oh the joys..... 😞

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sorry, i worded my explaination on the vacuum breakers wrong... last section i meant when needed it will allow air into geyser... not let it escape... that is my humble understanding... again by no strecth am i a plumber... or have a lot of plumbing experience... just how i seemed to me when i tried figuring it out when installing the solar geyser.... obviously there is more to it than what i thought... must be missing something stupid here....

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Posted (edited)

OK, I though those valves worked both ways.

Good luck on sorting it out! Is there an air release valve on the collector? Can it be an air bubble there?

Edited by DeepBass9

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Have you checked the direction of your non-return valve, as it can only open with the direction of the flow? If it is installed the wrong way around then it will definitely not pump. Or possibly as @Chris Louw has pointed out, your pump may be too weak to open the valve. Maybe remove it for a test?

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12 hours ago, GVC said:

Have you checked the direction of your non-return valve, as it can only open with the direction of the flow? If it is installed the wrong way around then it will definitely not pump. Or possibly as @Chris Louw has pointed out, your pump may be too weak to open the valve. Maybe remove it for a test?

That can be it, those circulation pumps are not designed to work against a head, rather just to move water in a closed system.

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to all the guys who replied, thanx a lot, as far as i can tell, i have everything connected correctly though, pump pumping in the correct direction, no non return valve facing or installed in the wrong direction etc etc. The flapper type non return valves i selected because they have way less resistance then or when compared to the spring loaded counterpart, and can be opened blowing into them very easily, so i am sure that is not the problem, which also led me to thinh the head might be the problem, but surely the pump must be able to pump against some head, my pipe work is not that far to the geyser, and max head should be less than what is rated for the pump... i asked a plumber to come and check since i am at witts end... will see what he comes up with..... attached the pump schematic i was able to source... i have the 10 watt version....

CirculationPump10W(1) (1).jpg

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so out of interest, i reinstalled and changed all the piping to the sans alternative installation over the weekend... works 100% without changing any of the hardware... still not sure why the supplier would give an installation option that does not work... happy it is sorted however... thanx to everyone who exchanged ideas and took the time to comment and help problem solve.... thanx guys.... had a few hot solar showers this week... works perfect now....

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