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Can I modify a UPS to run longer?


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Hi all

 

Based on current needs, I need a small UPS type of solution. It needs to run a 8CH CCTV kit, wifi and ONT during loadshedding. I'll go a bit bigger to allow for a TV and LED light if I am home.  

 

I looked the the trolley UPS options, but once I had settled on one I was happy with, I discovered the lead time was 10+ weeks. So now I am looking at alternatives.  I want to go with Pure SIne wave, which limits the options.

 

One idea I am considering is to get a PC UPS and then add a bigger battery, say 100Ah, to allow for longer run times.  I can work around the logistics of the battery not fitting in the housing.

Something like a Proline UPSI3000-G2 (Proline Innova Tower 3000VA Online UPS. 3000VA/2700W, Pure Sine Wave with AVR.LCD Display, 220V/50Hz. 12V/7Ah Battery, 1x USB port,1x RJ11 Port, 1x IEC C19 in, 6x IEC C14 Out, Black, 1 year warranty,Typical Backup time 5 min). Mecer and Eaton are also options. 

 

Any reasons to not go this route?  If this is doable, any brands to avoid?

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

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21 minutes ago, Craigm said:

Hi all

 

Based on current needs, I need a small UPS type of solution. It needs to run a 8CH CCTV kit, wifi and ONT during loadshedding. I'll go a bit bigger to allow for a TV and LED light if I am home.  

 

I looked the the trolley UPS options, but once I had settled on one I was happy with, I discovered the lead time was 10+ weeks. So now I am looking at alternatives.  I want to go with Pure SIne wave, which limits the options.

 

One idea I am considering is to get a PC UPS and then add a bigger battery, say 100Ah, to allow for longer run times.  I can work around the logistics of the battery not fitting in the housing.

Something like a Proline UPSI3000-G2 (Proline Innova Tower 3000VA Online UPS. 3000VA/2700W, Pure Sine Wave with AVR.LCD Display, 220V/50Hz. 12V/7Ah Battery, 1x USB port,1x RJ11 Port, 1x IEC C19 in, 6x IEC C14 Out, Black, 1 year warranty,Typical Backup time 5 min). Mecer and Eaton are also options. 

 

Any reasons to not go this route?  If this is doable, any brands to avoid?

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

Have you considered the charger limitations?

I.E. you use 40amp-hours during loadshedding over 2 hours, a 1a charger will take 40 hours to charge it (ignoring losses)

This is a problem when you have loadshedding more than once a day.

We went this way but found the batteries will not charge fast enough, so moved to the mecer units with 10/20a chargers (modified sine wave tho)

If you do go this route, my recommendations would be to find a ups that has a fan while charging, not all do and they would appreciate the fan for the longer charging cycles...

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13 minutes ago, Yubbz said:

Have you considered the charger limitations?

I.E. you use 40amp-hours during loadshedding over 2 hours, a 1A charger will take 40 hours to charge it (ignoring losses)

This is a problem when you have loadshedding more than once a day.

We went this way but found the batteries will not charge fast enough, so moved to the mecer units with 10/20a chargers (modified sine wave tho)

If you do go this route, my recommendations would be to find a ups that has a fan while charging, not all do and they would appreciate the fan for the longer charging cycles...

So that is part of my question. I am not sure about the size of the charging units on these models. Any ideas? The extent of the info I have on this unit was included in the post.

My usage during the day would be low. Internet is 2.5Ah max, DVR is about 2Ah, cameras I'm not too sure. So let's call it 10 amps per hour consumption.  So with a 1A charger, I'd only be OK for 1 x 2 hour loadshedding period per day. Is my maths correct? If so, this limitation will be a problem.

 

I have a Ctek MXS 5.0 charger which I got to charge 12v 7Ah batteries for DC lights dotted around the house. However, I have been advised to not have the charger connected to a battery while the load is also connected, as the battery would then not last very long. Is this correct? What makes a UPS different to this setup?

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On 2020/03/17 at 3:48 PM, Craigm said:

So that is part of my question. I am not sure about the size of the charging units on these models. Any ideas? The extent of the info I have on this unit was included in the post.

My usage during the day would be low. Internet is 2.5Ah max, DVR is about 2Ah, cameras I'm not too sure. So let's call it 10 amps per hour consumption.  So with a 1A charger, I'd only be OK for 1 x 2 hour loadshedding period per day. Is my maths correct? If so, this limitation will be a problem.

 

I have a Ctek MXS 5.0 charger which I got to charge 12v 7Ah batteries for DC lights dotted around the house. However, I have been advised to not have the charger connected to a battery while the load is also connected, as the battery would then not last very long. Is this correct? What makes a UPS different to this setup?

No idea about the CTek drawing... I would not want to put a Ctek on with a load (my opinion) as the ctek is designed to monitor voltage which will fluctuate with a load and if it is back on eskom (the ups charger), the two chargers will conflict... (my opinion). The ctek and the ups charger will lift the voltage and the other charger will get confused.

most 12v "ups's" have 1a chargers, I had a quick look and google did not help me...

Regarding your load, Most cameras are rated to 1A (at least my hikvision's are), so assuming 20ah per loadshedding on a 100ah battery you should manage 3 rounds per day if you can get a couple hours of charge in before the last round....

The difference between this and a UPS is that in your case there will be too many cooks in the charging room...

I am not sure about budget, but why not look at something like a growatt 3kv with 24v input? you could make your own trolley?
(I've just ordered a 5kw so no idea how well they work yet)
 

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17 minutes ago, Yubbz said:

No idea about the CTek drawing... I would not want to put a Ctek on with a load (my opinion) as the ctek is designed to monitor voltage which will fluctuate with a load and if it is back on eskom (the ups charger), the two chargers will conflict... (my opinion). The ctek and the ups charger will lift the voltage and the other charger will get confused.

most 12v "ups's" have 1a chargers, I had a quick look and google did not help me...

Regarding your load, Most cameras are rated to 1A (at least my hikvision's are), so assuming 20ah per loadshedding on a 100ah battery you should manage 3 rounds per day if you can get a couple hours of charge in before the last round....

The difference between this and a UPS is that in your case there will be too many cooks in the charging room...

I am not sure about budget, but why not look at something like a growatt 3kv with 24v input? you could make your own trolley?
(I've just ordered a 5kw so no idea how well they work yet)
 

Apologies for confusing the two scenarios.

 

Scenario 1

Small computer UPS, with the 7Ah battery replaced with something like 100Ah. Load runs through UPS and battery charges through UPS.

 

Scenario 2

I have a Ctek charger and a bunch of 12v 7Ah batteries.  I will run 12v DC lights on these batteries. I can also run the WIFI off of one of these batteries. To do this, I can connect the router and ONT to the battery via a created-for-purpose cable (not connected at all to AC).  

My question here is, can I connect the Ctek to the battery to charge the battery and power the appliances concurrently, with the battery taking over when AC fails.  No other input, other than the Ctek.

 

I hope this explains my question better.

 

I did some more sums, the minimum load is 6A (3A for cameras and DVR, 2,5A for router and ONT).

 

What is the Growatt model number?  I am willing to "build my own trolley" if I can find stock of the components.

 

I was going to order a trolley with the following spec, but obviously this is a much higher spec than to run only the internet and cameras:

- Axpert Pure Sine 3000VA

- 2x 100Ah AGM Deep Cycle batteries

- Trolley

Waiting time - 8 - 10 weeks through Geewiz, confirmed yesterday.

Price - R13k - therefore this is my budget

 

Open to all suggestions, thanks guys

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