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JohanG

Led Lights Turning Brown

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I have a problem with LED lights that use plastic as a lens and cover 

Havells Adoree Neo led 6w cool daylight.

The plastic discolours after limited use ..see image

They are linked to my solar during the day that at night switches to eskom 

This seems to be an overheating problem

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I need 6w led down lighters for my house  ... the Havells have been a costly mistake   

What make is the best at best price

image.png.626bc6ac49600e9104821419187f9501.png

 

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That is odd. How hot do the LEDs get? I just checked the LED bulb above my desk which has been on all day and it it only slightly warm to the touch. 

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1 minute ago, DeepBass9 said:

How hot do the LEDs get?

I was wondering the same thing. Could it be that the plastic covering is reacting to some spectrum of the produced light, so that it isn't so much the heat doing it?

Either way, it would be a defect in the lamp. Swap on warranty if you can. If you cannot... switch to different brand.

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It seems that leds do not like spikes ... so the circuit that it is on must only be the leds

At the moment I am manually switching to and from solar using a 2 Pole Change Over Disconnector (have an unresolved problem with my Axpert) while the lights are on. Can this cause a spike   

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I have removed the plastic lens/cover and the led is fully functional

Maybe I should use them without the cover

I think what is happening is that the plastic starts to discolour even very slightly  this causes heat buildup and it just gets worse going into a destructive cycle

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, JohanG said:

I have removed the plastic lens/cover and the led is fully functional

Possible to post a pic? I quite like mysteries but HATE unsolved ones and this intrigues me because I switched MANY GU10 downlights from the old halogen types to LED precisely because they run so much cooler  (discovered that some rocket scientist decided rather than moving the light placement a couple of centimeters  it will be a better idea to hack pieces out of the roof beams  and have the nice hot halogen lamp sit snuggely against the wood...). Depending on the components I am curious whether it is the lamp diffuser/lens or the actual LED/LED lens that is discoloured. I find it difficult to believe that - if fitted  - the  lamp difuser will get discoloured by a LED.

 

 

Edited by introverter
spelling

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48 minutes ago, introverter said:

run so much cooler

LEDs can run quite hot. If you take a 10W chip and try to hold it in your hand while clipping on a pair of crocodile supply clamps, you'll find quickly that it needs a bit of cooling. It runs significantly cooler than halogens of course (I believe those run hot enough to discolour wood, up to 280°C), but still hot enough that its uncomfortable to touch (especially if it is a GU10 lamp with the PSU tucked in the back). Semiconductors tend to live under 100°C, so the most likely explanation is that the diffuser is made of a cheaper plastic that discolours at relatively low temperatures. I don't know enough about plastics to be able to guess what it might be... 🙂

 

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On 2020/06/01 at 3:38 PM, DeepBass9 said:

That is odd. How hot do the LEDs get? I just checked the LED bulb above my desk which has been on all day and it it only slightly warm to the touch. 

Likely rhetorical question  and by no means a representative sample but I checked the diffuser/cover temp on a 230V 5W GU10 that has been on for hours and got about 33 degree C.  more than comfortable to touch with bear skin. Unless containing high quantities of chocolate I really wonder how many plastics/polymers etc. will degrade at that kind of temp. Guess the lamps could also be faulty and running much hotter....

1 hour ago, JohanG said:

I think what is happening is that the plastic starts to discolour even very slightly  this causes heat buildup and it just gets worse going into a destructive cycle

On 2020/06/01 at 3:40 PM, plonkster said:

Could it be that the plastic covering is reacting to some spectrum of the produced light,

Turns out LED "lights" are quite more complex than incandescent lamps (😉) and it is quite possible that what most people would consider the actual LED can discolour even in reaction to....... light    (but probably more likely non-compatible materials used in LED manufacture or contamination of the LED components).

Good insight  here... with their conclusion for the lazy readers being: 

"VOCs emitted from materials used in the construction of LED based SSL systems can penetrate the silicone lenses and encapsulants of LEDs. These VOCs in the silicone can discolor when exposed to heat and high photonic energy of the LED. The result can produce significant loss of light output or color shift from the LED"

And for the really dedicated have a look here

1 hour ago, JohanG said:

I have removed the plastic lens/cover and the led is fully functional

Maybe I should use them without the cover

If these are down lights you might find that the light spread is less than ideal and that they become much more pronounced spot lights

On 2020/06/01 at 7:35 AM, JohanG said:

the Havells have been a costly mistake 

 What make is the best at best price?

I have no reason to complain about the Ellies GU10 LED down lights I have. Out of a group of 28 that are used most frequently and for extended times I have had 3 failures in about 3 or 4 years. "These" go for about R30 each at builder's (I say "these" because I would assume that by now there have been product/supplier changes). I have purchased (something else) from these guys and was happy with their service - see they stock GU10 LED bulbs strating at about R19 each

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9 hours ago, introverter said:

 about 33 degree C.  more than comfortable to touch with bear skin.

obviously depending what mood the bear is in, the temperature of the LED might be the least of your concerns...  

class, say with me.. bear...bare.. 😳

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, introverter said:

class, say with me.. bear...bare.. 😳

Hehehe yes, I've been conditioned by social media to ignore these... (and then one day someone on this forum made up some stickers for DB boards, and I didn't correct his spelling cause I felt too bad, and some weeks later he proudly announced that he got them back from the printers!). So yeah.... bear is a kind of dangerous hairy animal, or it means to carry something. Bare means uncovered, naked.

So it is bear with me (because you have to carry the burden of waiting a bit for the point to become clear), not BARE with me (unless you're into skinny-dipping). I do have it on some authority that a piece of bear skin (fur) can be used to good effect on bare skin... 😛

 

Edited by plonkster

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35 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I do have it on some authority that a piece of bear skin can be used to good effect on bare skin... 😛

...but will you achieve the same with hair from a hare? 🤔 😜

I updated my forum signature accordingly but unfortunately can't get it to display BEFORE my post content so readers with a keen eye or those well versed in brits will have to bear..bare ... continue working on their patients...

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Posted (edited)
On 2020/06/03 at 8:10 AM, JohanG said:

I have removed the plastic lens/cover and the led is fully functional

Maybe I should use them without the cover

I think what is happening is that the plastic starts to discolour even very slightly  this causes heat buildup and it just gets worse going into a destructive cycle

Oh my! That dark brown color is really scary. Maybe that apart from the heat the chip also produces a huge amount of UV light.

If this LED was able to destroy the plastic, imagine what it will do with your bare skin after some time...how about to buy yourself a decet Hazmat suit instead of pyjamas?

Btw: I'm personally using OSRAM or Philips brands. Even their LEDs will change color a little over the years, but it's almost unnoticeable. You have to put the old and new next to the each other, in order to spot the difference.

Your example is a real extreme.

Edited by Youda

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17 hours ago, Youda said:

..how about to buy yourself a decet Hazmat suit instead of pyjamas?

for some strange reason at the moment a hazmat suit is probaly somewhat harder to find.... but then again until a week or so ago, here a bit south of the tropic of Capricorn, trying to buy pyjamas could just maybe have landed you in jail ...😉 

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by the way, @JohanG, after I have thoroughly derailed your thread and now trying to get back to some of your questions I will say the following

If it is a concern,  I doubt that the lights going brown is a sign of something wrong with your inverter/battery or how you use it.

Quite likely the material used for the lens part had some quality control issues and the material therefore starts to discolour quickly. If you can comfortably hold your hand against the lamp when it has been on for quite a while the brown colour is probably not directly from heat/scorching.... if they get so hot that you find the heat uncomfortable it is probably safer to replace them with something else.

I posted some info in an earlier post (here) that could help you find some reasonably priced replacements (including some OSRAMS as @Youda referred to) but there are many alternative sources.

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40 minutes ago, introverter said:

If it is a concern,  I doubt that the lights going brown is a sign of something wrong with your inverter/battery or how you use it.

I agree. Something is up with the lamp. Either running too hot, cheap plastics degrading too easily, all things pointing to poor quality of the lamp itself. I mean, if this was some hostile factory environment where something in the air caused oxidation in surrounding materials that would be one thing, but this must be another.

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23 hours ago, introverter said:

...but will you achieve the same with hair from a hare? 🤔 😜

I updated my forum signature accordingly but unfortunately can't get it to display BEFORE my post content so readers with a keen eye or those well versed in brits will have to bear..bare ... continue working on their patients...

Lettuce weight and sea.

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On 2020/06/03 at 9:10 AM, introverter said:

Possible to post a pic? I quite like mysteries but HATE unsolved ones and this intrigues me because I switched MANY GU10 downlights from the old halogen types to LED precisely because they run so much cooler  (discovered that some rocket scientist decided rather than moving the light placement a couple of centimeters  it will be a better idea to hack pieces out of the roof beams  and have the nice hot halogen lamp sit snuggely against the wood...). Depending on the components I am curious whether it is the lamp diffuser/lens or the actual LED/LED lens that is discoloured. I find it difficult to believe that - if fitted  - the  lamp difuser will get discoloured by a LED.

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.7bf729978a6eaca2038759c843e4e0a4.png

Left with cover Right cover removed and it works fine

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Thank you for the photo @JohanG . Must say, if that is the standard of their materials/quality control I would be left to wonder what else they got wrong and rather replace the lights as soon as feasible

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