Narada Li-Iron Float Voltage?

[Jay-Dee]

Hi all

Can someone help me with the settings for my Narada 48NPFC100 Li Iron battery

http://narada-ap.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/48NPFC100.pdf

From the specs, I can see that Charge Voltage is 54V and the Cut off is 40.5V (although I am using 43.5V to be safe)... What would the recommended float voltage be?

Also, would you make any changes to the charge or cut off as above when connecting with an Axpert King 5K?

Thanks in advance

[Coulomb]

2 hours ago, Jay-Dee said:

Also, would you make any changes to the charge or cut off as above when connecting with an Axpert King 5K?

Yes. Axperts are prone to overshooting their voltage targets, so 54 V (which is presumably 3.6 VPC, 15 cells) is way too high.

I'd use the standard Pylontech voltages, which have settled to 52.5 V absorb and 51.8 V float, with 46 V cutoff.

[Jay-Dee]

1 hour ago, Coulomb said:

Yes. Axperts are prone to overshooting their voltage targets, so 54 V (which is presumably 3.6 VPC, 15 cells) is way too high.

I'd use the standard Pylontech voltages, which have settled to 52.5 V absorb and 51.8 V float, with 46 V cutoff.

Thank you... Changes made. Appreciate 

[LionKing]

@Jay-Dee How are your Narada batteries coming along? Im deciding between Narada and Pylontech, pylons being 50% more expensive, otherwise would have just gone with those. The inverter I have is Voltronic infini 10kw, so no BMS comms with inverter, but trying to get my hands on modbus/RS485 card. 

Do you have comm link setup between Sunsynk inverter and Narada or still charging using manually bulk/float settings?

[Jay-Dee]

8 minutes ago, LionKing said:

@Jay-Dee How are your Narada batteries coming along? Im deciding between Narada and Pylontech, pylons being 50% more expensive, otherwise would have just gone with those. The inverter I have is Voltronic infini 10kw, so no BMS comms with inverter, but trying to get my hands on modbus/RS485 card. 

Do you have comm link setup between Sunsynk inverter and Narada or still charging using manually bulk/float settings?

Narada's are still working well but I have moved them off my Sunsynk setup and back to Axperts inverters at the office(s).

On my Sunsynk, I have gone Pylontech on the one and Hubble on the other... Hubble is great and value for money but I do have to reset the batteries if they drain below the inverters shut off settings (currently set at 20%).  The Pylontechs are just rock solid... The 5kw unit has also been upgraded to a 90A charge/discharge rating which makes it very competitive and well priced

I had the Narada's working with the Sunsynk but the BMS did not like it 100% and if you are purchasing, I would not recommend. If you have them already, different story

[LionKing]

1 hour ago, Jay-Dee said:

I had the Narada's working with the Sunsynk but the BMS did not like it 100% and if you are purchasing, I would not recommend. If you have them already, different story

What issue did you have with Narada and Sunsynk? My local Narada retailer is saying I can use it just like a regular AGM/GEL battery by setting bulk/float and discharge-cuttoff voltages?

[Scorp007]

24 minutes ago, LionKing said:

What issue did you have with Narada and Sunsynk? My local Narada retailer is saying I can use it just like a regular AGM/GEL battery by setting bulk/float and discharge-cuttoff voltages?

By not using the BMS you can get values that can damage the battery and with a BMS comms the BMS will shut down before damage. 

SOC is also very far out without a BMS. 

[Antonio de Sa]

55 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

By not using the BMS you can get values that can damage the battery and with a BMS comms the BMS will shut down before damage. 

SOC is also very far out without a BMS. 

@Scorp007  I've been running my system for 2 1/2 years on voltage settings without BMS comms, without any problems, I can see the BMS doing its job, the moment any of my cells reaches 3,5 V stops charging that cell. and that specific cell goes in to equalizing mode. The SOC goes up to 99% and my system still showing 100% health.

[Jay-Dee]

1 hour ago, LionKing said:

What issue did you have with Narada and Sunsynk? My local Narada retailer is saying I can use it just like a regular AGM/GEL battery by setting bulk/float and discharge-cuttoff voltages?

So, I got my comms working between the Sunsynk and the Narada batteries (I have / had 2) but the issue came in with when I put my setup in "load shedding mode" i.e. only used the batteries in load shedding, the SOC being reported by the BMS was very wonky. The batteries would remote 100% SOC at 49v and obviously then deplete quickly.  This was caused when the batteries were floated for a week or more without any load shedding.     This issue does not happen when running an Axpert Inverter with ICM or Solar Assistant controlling the system via the BMS, so I know it is a combined Sunsynk and Narada issue.

I then moved my batteries to AGM mode on the Sunsynk, controlled the batteries via voltage and completely ignored the SOC of the BMS... This worked perfectly. I then connected the BMS to ICM and compared the SOC readings in there to the voltages to fine tweak the settings on the Sunsynk.  I did not have a problem at all with this setup and ran perfectly for about a year.

I am not upgrading my setup and did not want invest more into Naradas when it was a make do / work around... Having had Hubbles at another site working almost perfectly, I know how much easier things are when you able to communicate properly and considering the Naradas are not cheaper... I moved things around and am enjoying my Pylontechs.   The other big advantage of the Pylontechs is being able to mix and match battery sizes as this has allowed me to purchase lightly used units at great prices.

As mentioned originally... If you are purchasing and not re-purposing... I would go Pylontech as the Naradas are not cheaper / much cheaper

[LionKing]

2 hours ago, Jay-Dee said:

I would go Pylontech as the Naradas are not cheaper / much cheaper

Thanks for detailed response. I made up my mind about Pylontech, unfortunately, we have older UP5000 models available here with recommended 50amps discharge current. However, a Narada distributor is selling latest NESR-48100 battery with 15-year design life, seems like the model was launched end of last year so not widely used yet. I'm thinking of going with that using bulk/float/cut-off setting method (without bms comms). Narada is a reputable company and this battery should be better than older NPFC model, what do you think?

[Jay-Dee]

30 minutes ago, LionKing said:

Thanks for detailed response. I made up my mind about Pylontech, unfortunately, we have older UP5000 models available here with recommended 50amps discharge current. However, a Narada distributor is selling latest NESR-48100 battery with 15-year design life, seems like the model was launched end of last year so not widely used yet. I'm thinking of going with that using bulk/float/cut-off setting method (without bms comms). Narada is a reputable company and this battery should be better than older NPFC model, what do you think?

Don’t know about the new model at all.  When I reached out to them with BMS issues, I did not get a usable response. So I would not rely on their reputation personally

Re the Pylontechs… from my understanding and reading… all UP5000’s get the upgrade… you just need to update to the latest firmware

 

[LionKing]

1 hour ago, Jay-Dee said:

all UP5000’s get the upgrade… you just need to update to the latest firmware

While researching this, I saw your post from Nov, were you able to get the firmware update and able to push 100amps out of UP5000?

 

[Scorp007]

5 hours ago, Antonio de Sa said:

@Scorp007  I've been running my system for 2 1/2 years on voltage settings without BMS comms, without any problems, I can see the BMS doing its job, the moment any of my cells reaches 3,5 V stops charging that cell. and that specific cell goes in to equalizing mode. The SOC goes up to 99% and my system still showing 100% health.

In your case you have great monitoring. I am not saying it's bad as I am also charging 6 x 12V lithiums on voltage. 4 of them only have their own BMS. I can not say what the SOC is on 4 but on my DIY 8 cell series I can get it from the JK. 

For a standard inverter with no monitoring the person will not have such great info as you have. 

Just the last few days we have seen a lithium with perhaps comms not working showing full SOC that did not drop from 4 to 3 to 2 LEDs just to cut out. Although unknown why I think if comms were working it might not have happened. 

[Jay-Dee]

On 2023/12/27 at 5:35 PM, LionKing said:

While researching this, I saw your post from Nov, were you able to get the firmware update and able to push 100amps out of UP5000?

 

https://portal.segensolar.co.za/reseller/docs/Application note for upgrading UP5000 to 0.9C battery (1).pdf

 

How to and links included

[LionKing]

6 hours ago, Jay-Dee said:

How to and links included

Thanks! is this official firmware update released by Pylontech for everyone or just Segensolar? I ask my local pylontech retailer yesterday, but he was completely unaware of the firmware update. 

On a side note, do you know what else is different between UP5000 and US5000? I'm now deciding between UP5000 (with firmware update) and Narada NESR48100.

[Jay-Dee]

32 minutes ago, LionKing said:

Thanks! is this official firmware update released by Pylontech for everyone or just Segensolar? I ask my local pylontech retailer yesterday, but he was completely unaware of the firmware update. 

On a side note, do you know what else is different between UP5000 and US5000? I'm now deciding between UP5000 (with firmware update) and Narada NESR48100.

 

An alternative link if you want to compare and you could message the user to ask re the files
 

 

 

 

 

[Jay-Dee]

34 minutes ago, LionKing said:

On a side note, do you know what else is different between UP5000 and US5000? I'm now deciding between UP5000 (with firmware update) and Narada NESR48100.

Have a look at the below video... Originally it was the discharge rate and life cycle... Now presumably, it is just the life cycle

https://youtu.be/w3rFYIcT-lY

[LionKing]

10 hours ago, Jay-Dee said:

An alternative link if you want to compare and you could message the user to ask re the files

The post you shared doesn't list UP5000 as one of the compatible models? Did you update the firmware in your UP5000 and able to do 0.9C discharge?