Axpert 5K King - Firmware 71.93 post update issues

[Novarein]

Hello everyone!! Thought Id compile my experience with the 71.93 firmware post update

My setup:
2 x Kodak 5K Axpert King

Parallel with USE on Slave and PYL on Master

Firmware 71.93

Display 02.49

7 x US3000 3.5KW

 

 

1.  When the batteries are fully charged on setting SUB, (error 61 if I recall correctly and this means battery full) pops up on the display and the inverters only use power from the UTILITY AND NOT THE SOLARS for LOAD.  I have settings SLB UDC (Solar for load then battery - Utility dont charge Battery) - (This issue was not a problem with prior versions of the firmware). I switch them to SBU the error disappears switching the Solar back online

 

2.  Later at night when I want to switch the Inverters back to SBU (from SUB setting 2), they stay on UTILITY and don't go to BATTERY - I have to power cycle the inverters to kick them out of UTILITY.  This issue occurs late afternoon when or night when no Solar power is generated.  The batteries SOC are still fairly high - around 70% to 90%.  This also occurred today for some reason while Inverters were on SBU and when i checked on them late afternoon, they were back on Grid (Still on SBU) with batteries around 80% to 90% SOC

 

3.  After upgrading to 71.92 and 71.93, the watchpower 1.13 software doesnt pick up my inverters.  The "firmware software updater" however picks up the serial/USB port without problems in order to perform an update. If I plug another inverter (example the 3kva) to the PC it also picks up fine on the winpower software.  Is there a new version Im not aware of?  Other software possible better?

Note I have tried different cables and PC/Laptops to check the issues and the above is true, though its straight forward that the issue is not PC or cable related

 

4.  71.92 had an issue on setting 29 set to 47v and cannot be changed - (Inverter set to Pylon as stated above). Starup load for example a pressure pump will drop the voltage below 47 volts (with other load also present), therefore kicking the inverters to Bypass.  I have updated to 71.93 and the issue seems to have gone away.  The issue still remains though that I still cannot change the setting 29 to a lower voltage from 47v. I want to set the BACK TO GRID (setting 16) to 47 volts, therefore the Bypass (Setting 29) should be surely alot less?

 

5.  Do the Inverters require so much power when running on SUB? I have an ammeter on the Mains and it reads 2.4 amps for both inverters (no other load except inverters)? Internet Research stated around 40watts per inverter and even with a 0.5 power factor when inverters are on idle it still does not make up the 1.2 amps per inverter? Is this normal?

6.  Im guessing the solution to most problems above is to get a Raspberry Pi 4 with ICC software? I see its an issue to get the Pylon Comms cable which is where Im stuck at the moment with - out of stock nationwide

Thanks advance for the assistance!

[Bloubul7]

Interesting, thanks.  Is your SUB mode still working fine under 71.93?  My SUB is functioning like USB

[Jay-Dee]

40 minutes ago, Novarein said:

5.  Do the Inverters require so much power when running on SUB? I have an ammeter on the Mains and it reads 2.4 amps for both inverters (no other load except inverters)? Internet Research stated around 40watts per inverter and even with a 0.5 power factor when inverters are on idle it still does not make up the 1.2 amps per inverter? Is this normal?

6.  Im guessing the solution to most problems above is to get a Raspberry Pi 4 with ICC software? I see its an issue to get the Pylon Comms cable which is where Im stuck at the moment with - out of stock nationwide
 

I can only help with points 5 and 6... I have updated to 71.93 and see a draw for my single unit at 0.04 from AC main / in and if running on PV, i am see about 100w being used for the inverter

ICC and battery comm cable is an absolute must... Really allows you to tweak things and make changes you would never have considered via the inverter (for most people). Perhaps this is the reason, I am not seeing any of the above.

 

One note of difference, I have a Narada battery not Pylon personally but have a Pylon at my parents also with 71.93 with no issues

[Novarein]

19 minutes ago, Bloubul7 said:

Interesting, thanks.  Is your SUB mode still working fine under 71.93?  My SUB is functioning like USB

So far SUB works fine apart from issue on point 1 - I have not tested USB to be honest

[Novarein]

19 minutes ago, Jay-Dee said:

I can only help with points 5 and 6... I have updated to 71.93 and see a draw for my single unit at 0.04 from AC main / in and if running on PV, i am see about 100w being used for the inverter

ICC and battery comm cable is an absolute must... Really allows you to tweak things and make changes you would never have considered via the inverter (for most people). Perhaps this is the reason, I am not seeing any of the above.

 

One note of difference, I have a Narada battery not Pylon personally but have a Pylon at my parents also with 71.93 with no issues

100 w seems more on par with what is supposed to be used as you stated AC main / in and running on full PV - I get 1.2 amps on the ammeter (around 240w on 0.8 power factor), which is substantially more. Yeah it seems more and more the ICC with Pylon comm is my solution here 

[Bloubul7]

13 minutes ago, Novarein said:

So far SUB works fine apart from issue on point 1 - I have not tested USB to be honest

Thanks,

My plans was to add another Axpert King to my current setup. But I must admit it is currently a hit & miss with the Axpert and the firmware.  One of the biggest draw points for me was the SUB mode, but it never functions as expected.  Seriously contemplating of just selling my current unit and going for a Sunsynk 8kw unit.  You might soon see an Axpert King + ICC + Pylontech cables for sale

[Plaashaas]

I must say my system is running flawlessly.

I run them SBU. Slave utility supply switched off permanently. Only master allowed to charge from Utility at Max 2A. 
Both not allowed to BYPASS. I have no issues starting 2.2kW pump even with 2kW loads on. Also no problem boiling kettle with 4kW loads running. 
Battery full by 16:00. Surviving every night with bank still at 24-30% SOC. Back to grid set at 48V. Not using Watchpower, ICC or any software at this stage. Although I use watchpower app to check things from time to time. 

I am very happy. 

[Calvin]

14 hours ago, Novarein said:

After upgrading to 71.92 and 71.93, the watchpower 1.13 software doesnt pick up my inverters.

Odd - I am on 71.93 and watchpower 1.13 works.

14 hours ago, Novarein said:

therefore kicking the inverters to Bypass

REALLY odd.  In parallel use Bypass mode does not work at all.... From manual "*ECO mode disabled when in parallel mode."  Are you sure about this?

 

14 hours ago, Novarein said:

Do the Inverters require so much power when running on SUB? I have an ammeter on the Mains and it reads 2.4 amps for both inverters (no other load except inverters)? Internet Research stated around 40watts per inverter and even with a 0.5 power factor when inverters are on idle it still does not make up the 1.2 amps per inverter? Is this normal?

I had the same fright when measuring just current - turns out that power factor under these circumstances is about 0.1.  If you do not have a direct way of checking this, you can confirm it by using your utility meter - turn off everything else and check how fast it moves.

Your setup sounds similar to that of @Plaashaas, who seems to have hit some magic combination of setup that actually works.  Perhaps he would be kind enough to share his setup in detail, including all the settings?

BTW, I was surprised that @Plaashaas can run his paralleled inverters with only one connected to the grid.  When I tried it (on firmware 71.86 at the time) it would not accept it unless it was present on all 3 my inverters.

[Gnome]

Maybe try the newer version of WatchPower

[Coulomb]

16 hours ago, Novarein said:

1.  When the batteries are fully charged on setting SUB, (error 61 if I recall correctly and this means battery full) pops up on the display and the inverters only use power from the UTILITY AND NOT THE SOLARS for LOAD.

Did you mean warning 69 (battery charging not allowed), or warning 61 (communications lost)? If it's communications lost, after 10 minutes, the inverter stops charging or discharging the battery. But I guess even then, solar should be allowed to partly or fully charge the load.

[Plaashaas]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

BTW, I was surprised that @Plaashaas can run his paralleled inverters with only one connected to the grid.  When I tried it (on firmware 71.86 at the time) it would not accept it unless it was present on all 3 my inverters.

Yes I heard the same when I installed the second but it works. Does not seem to matter which one or in fact both have Grid or not. 

[Lappies]

I have the exact setup, (except only 2 batteries)  and have the same problem with error 61. I have a theory the master stop chancing and the slave on USE keep chancing and thus giving a error 61 on master. any suggestions please?

[Calvin]

19 hours ago, Novarein said:

The issue still remains though that I still cannot change the setting 29 to a lower voltage from 47v. I want to set the BACK TO GRID (setting 16) to 47 volts, therefore the Bypass (Setting 29) should be surely alot less?

I think you may be confusion "line" mode with "Bypass/ECO" mode.  In the King, line mode is double conversion, whilst ECO/Bypass mode connects AC in directly to AC out.

From the manual (for the "PYL" setting): "If selected, programs of 02, 26, 27 and 29 will be automatically set up. No need for further setting."

Essentially the firmware controls these settings when in PYL mode.

Bypass/ECO mode is controlled by settings 10 and 23, but is disabled when running in parallel mode.

8 minutes ago, Lappies said:

any suggestions please

The firmware for the King is at best a "work in progress", and the combination of parallel and Pylon is something that they clearly have not yet spent much time on.  Other than @Plaashaas I know of nobody who has got Kings in parallel to work on PYL setting.  My standard advice is to use the USE setting and use something like ICC or solpiplog or from the thread below.

 

 

[Novarein]

Thanks everyone for the input - really useful info

8 hours ago, Calvin said:

Odd - I am on 71.93 and watchpower 1.13 works.

REALLY odd.  In parallel use Bypass mode does not work at all.... From manual "*ECO mode disabled when in parallel mode."  Are you sure about this?

 

with 71.92 it did go into bypass mode when the Bat voltage dropped below 47v (even for a second). When I upgraded to 71.93 it has not happened.  

8 hours ago, Calvin said:

Odd - I am on 71.93 and watchpower 1.13 works.

REALLY odd.  In parallel use Bypass mode does not work at all.... From manual "*ECO mode disabled when in parallel mode."  Are you sure about this?

 

I had the same fright when measuring just current - turns out that power factor under these circumstances is about 0.1.  If you do not have a direct way of checking this, you can confirm it by using your utility meter - turn off everything else and check how fast it moves.

Your setup sounds similar to that of @Plaashaas, who seems to have hit some magic combination of setup that actually works.  Perhaps he would be kind enough to share his setup in detail, including all the settings?

 

Yeah its really crazy, though this is power factor is under load and also when there is no load - Ill explain below

Correct, Test 1  I have switched ALL load off with an ammeter connected to mains. This gives me 2.4 amps for the 2 inverters.
Test 2 is when the Solar providing power to load, then the Ammeter reads the same on my mains - 2.4 amps for the 2 inverters (Settting SUB)

 

8 hours ago, Gnome said:

Maybe try the newer version of WatchPower

I have downloaded the 1.14 sp1 on that website, and tried to install it on 2 different PCs with windows 10 (latest updates) and I get  "unable to execute the desired program, please get another copy of the installer and try again"  guessing compatibility issues with windows 10??

 

7 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Did you mean warning 69 (battery charging not allowed), or warning 61 (communications lost)? If it's communications lost, after 10 minutes, the inverter stops charging or discharging the battery. But I guess even then, solar should be allowed to partly or fully charge the load.

Apologies, you are correct, its setting 69 for bat full

[Novarein]

3 hours ago, Lappies said:

I have the exact setup, (except only 2 batteries)  and have the same problem with error 61. I have a theory the master stop chancing and the slave on USE keep chancing and thus giving a error 61 on master. any suggestions please?

Apologies the issue I have is error 69 BAT full - I have the 61 error on a "rare occasion", but I also run a 20 metre cable from the Inverters to the Batteries which I custom made
I upgraded everything to latest Display and firmware.  I RUN ALL JUMPERS down except the MASTER pylon first jumper up.  Setting on MASTER PYL and SLAVE USE - works great otherwise

 

3 hours ago, Calvin said:

I think you may be confusion "line" mode with "Bypass/ECO" mode.  In the King, line mode is double conversion, whilst ECO/Bypass mode connects AC in directly to AC out.

From the manual (for the "PYL" setting): "If selected, programs of 02, 26, 27 and 29 will be automatically set up. No need for further setting."

Essentially the firmware controls these settings when in PYL mode.

Bypass/ECO mode is controlled by settings 10 and 23, but is disabled when running in parallel mode.

The firmware for the King is at best a "work in progress", and the combination of parallel and Pylon is something that they clearly have not yet spent much time on.  Other than @Plaashaas I know of nobody who has got Kings in parallel to work on PYL setting.  My standard advice is to use the USE setting and use something like ICC or solpiplog or from the thread below.

 

 

Yes it runs on LINE mode as it normally does - AC in to Inverter to AC out
though on 71.92 it really did go into bypass (Direct from AC in to AC OUT) once dipped below 47v..  I speak under correction but IIRC it displayed "bypass" on inverter display window?

 

This is all very useful info as in terms of parallel automatically disabling bypass  - Illl check those settings in more detail as you stated above

At this point, im running them on PYLON Master and USE  Slave in Parallel mode and go through the whole night without any issues - apart from the small snags I have mentioned above. It also doesnt kick into bypass anymore since I upgraded to 71.93 when dropping below 47v. I was hoping it isnt something i did by accident and it just started working, so reason i posted my findings.

Note I could only run Parallel without issues after the 71.92/71.93  firmware - with the older firmware it was not possible to PYLON Parallel setting

thanks for the heads up on the Software - will def check it out

[Novarein]

4 hours ago, Calvin said:

I think you may be confusion "line" mode with "Bypass/ECO" mode.  In the King, line mode is double conversion, whilst ECO/Bypass mode connects AC in directly to AC out.

From the manual (for the "PYL" setting): "If selected, programs of 02, 26, 27 and 29 will be automatically set up. No need for further setting."

Essentially the firmware controls these settings when in PYL mode.

Bypass/ECO mode is controlled by settings 10 and 23, but is disabled when running in parallel mode.

The firmware for the King is at best a "work in progress", and the combination of parallel and Pylon is something that they clearly have not yet spent much time on.  Other than @Plaashaas I know of nobody who has got Kings in parallel to work on PYL setting.  My standard advice is to use the USE setting and use something like ICC or solpiplog or from the thread below.

 

 

UPDATE ON SOFTWARE

Ok I tried this software and it works great - inverters have comms to software with 3rd USB cable I tried.  (Ill try the 1.13 watchpower again see if it also works, I suspected both cables faulty as they were working in roof and could have pinched the USB cables = whats the chance??)
I also procured a PYLONTECH COMMS cable today and connected it to the RJ11 console port on the Pylon master - also getting bat readings thanks for this! 
 

[Novarein]

On 2020/09/08 at 7:26 PM, Novarein said:

 

 

2.  Later at night when I want to switch the Inverters back to SBU (from SUB setting 2), they stay on UTILITY and don't go to BATTERY - I have to power cycle the inverters to kick them out of UTILITY.  This issue occurs late afternoon when or night when no Solar power is generated.  The batteries SOC are still fairly high - around 70% to 90%.  This also occurred today for some reason while Inverters were on SBU and when i checked on them late afternoon, they were back on Grid (Still on SBU) with batteries around 80% to 90% SOC

 

 

I figured out the problem

 

I change the setting at night to SUB at times, but cannot get it back to SBU - REASON:

Setting 13: i dropped it to 48 volts then then the inverter can go back to SBU mode. At this point the battery was reading 49v

 

[Novarein]

On 2020/09/08 at 7:26 PM, Novarein said:

 

1.  When the batteries are fully charged on setting SUB, (error 69* if I recall correctly and this means battery full) pops up on the display and the inverters only use power from the UTILITY AND NOT THE SOLARS for LOAD.  I have settings SLB UDC (Solar for load then battery - Utility dont charge Battery) - (This issue was not a problem with prior versions of the firmware). I switch them to SBU the error disappears switching the Solar back online

 

All and all I feel most problems are resolved, but this issue of error 69 BAT FULL is still an issue - If i get more information Ill revert

[Calvin]

28 minutes ago, Novarein said:

but this issue of error 69 BAT FULL is still an issue

This is an issue with the inverter when it is set to PYL mode.

The inverter asks the Pylon's BMS for the target voltage, and it replies with 53.2V (53.25V to be exact).  This is on the high side, but would be OK with an inverter that does not overshoot.  Unfortunately the Axperts do overshoot the target, causing the BMS to send a message to stop charging.  This is displayed on the inverter as the famous message 69.

In earlier versions of the firmware this caused an error that shut the entire system down.  Now it is only a warning.

Most people run the inverter in USE mode with a absorb/bulk setting of about 52.5V and float at about 50.5V.  The 53.2V is far too high  - apart from the 69 warning it is bad for the life of the battery to be kept at such a high voltage.

[Novarein]

29 minutes ago, Calvin said:

This is an issue with the inverter when it is set to PYL mode.

The inverter asks the Pylon's BMS for the target voltage, and it replies with 53.2V (53.25V to be exact).  This is on the high side, but would be OK with an inverter that does not overshoot.  Unfortunately the Axperts do overshoot the target, causing the BMS to send a message to stop charging.  This is displayed on the inverter as the famous message 69.

In earlier versions of the firmware this caused an error that shut the entire system down.  Now it is only a warning.

Most people run the inverter in USE mode with a absorb/bulk setting of about 52.5V and float at about 50.5V.  The 53.2V is far too high  - apart from the 69 warning it is bad for the life of the battery to be kept at such a high voltage.

Thanks for the feedback!

The issue im experiencing is that on setting PYL and SUB, the error 69 on display results in my PVs to go completely offline.  In other words any load gets taken from the Mains and not the SOLAR.

If I switch it to SBU, the error goes away and the PVs come back online producing power again.

[Lappies]

16 hours ago, Novarein said:

All and all I feel most problems are resolved, but this issue of error 69 BAT FULL is still an issue - If i get more information Ill revert

Agree not happy with Kodak inverter firmware

[Lappies]

16 hours ago, Calvin said:

This is an issue with the inverter when it is set to PYL mode.

The inverter asks the Pylon's BMS for the target voltage, and it replies with 53.2V (53.25V to be exact).  This is on the high side, but would be OK with an inverter that does not overshoot.  Unfortunately the Axperts do overshoot the target, causing the BMS to send a message to stop charging.  This is displayed on the inverter as the famous message 69.

In earlier versions of the firmware this caused an error that shut the entire system down.  Now it is only a warning.

Most people run the inverter in USE mode with a absorb/bulk setting of about 52.5V and float at about 50.5V.  The 53.2V is far too high  - apart from the 69 warning it is bad for the life of the battery to be kept at such a high voltage.

I want my money back! How did Kodak SA handle this issue? Not very happy 

[Calvin]

59 minutes ago, Lappies said:

How did Kodak SA handle this issue?

I don't think that Kodak has anything to do with these.  Somebody (presumably) got permission to use the Kodak name on this inverter in SA only.  It is simply another re-brand of the standard Voltronics product.

[Coulomb]

19 hours ago, Novarein said:

though on 71.92 it really did go into bypass (Direct from AC in to AC OUT) once dipped below 47v..  I speak under correction but IIRC it displayed "bypass" on inverter display window?

The manual I have seems to say that you'll only see the BYPASS icon on in the mode described as bypass/ECO. My understanding is that with paralleled machines, you can still have bypass mode, but it won't go to bypass mode in an attempt to save energy (disabling the double conversion). Perhaps menu item 10 will disappear when running parallelled machines.

[Coulomb]

18 hours ago, Novarein said:

this issue of error 69 BAT FULL is still an issue

My guess is the firmware writers are treating warning 69 as a need to stop charging altogether, which sounds right, but in fact they should be continuing "charging" with a target current into the battery of zero. That way, it should balance PV in and load power (where possible, obviously), saving needless use of utility power.