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Solar Power monitoring cost does not make sense


bushman10

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Okay, maybe I'm a bit too passionate about my choice of OS. To each his own. I think, however, that end users no longer install the OS. You buy the computer with an OS. Most end users farm out such things to a shop anyway. We cannot judge a system based on how easy it is to install. We have to judge it on ease of use. Now I will concede, Windows has this one thing that makes it easier to use: Technical support is a dime a dozen, from the neighbour's kid, your teenage son's friend, etc. You can buy commercial support for it too.

Part of my problem, however, is that I'm old enough to remember many of their anti-competitive shenanigans. I remember Digital Research, doubles-space (which became drive-space under threat of a court case), the browser wars, the mindcraft saga. I'm like those stickers people stick on their Land Rovers: I'd rather push my 4x4 than drive that other one... :-)

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On 5/27/2016 at 3:32 PM, Janma said:

Some years back I put in leave to do some renovation at home. Mostly painting etc. My mentor at the time asked me why I did not get painters in to do it for me. I told him I could do it a lot cheaper than the quotes I got. He asked me do calculate my "real" cost by dividing my monthly salary by the number of hours I work per month. Then multiply that by the number of hours I spend painting then add the cost of the paint etc.  When looking at it this way it sometimes turns out cheaper to to just get a painter to do it..

Unfortunately that painter will not do it exactly the way I want it done. He will spill paint somewhere, even if it is little droplets and he will paint something he shouldn't have - you get the picture. If I do it myself and I make a mess or spill a few drops of paint I can only blame myself, but in the end the job is done the way I wanted it done. I will ONLY get someone to do a job at my place which I really cannot do myself, e.g. where you require specialized tools and it simply does not make sense to buy those tools for a once-off installation - here I refer to something like the installation of an air-con where you have to have at lease a tube expander / reamer tool set and a vacuum pump, which will set you back a few grand.

I also like working with my hands and doing things which are way different from my day job - but that is only me and I know some people have 10 thumbs when it comes to working with their hands.

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38 minutes ago, superdiy said:

Unfortunately that painter will not do it exactly the way I want it done. He will spill paint somewhere, even if it is little droplets and he will paint something he shouldn't have - you get the picture. If I do it myself and I make a mess or spill a few drops of paint I can only blame myself, but in the end the job is done the way I wanted it done. I will ONLY get someone to do a job at my place which I really cannot do myself, e.g. where you require specialized tools and it simply does not make sense to buy those tools for a once-off installation - here I refer to something like the installation of an air-con where you have to have at lease a tube expander / reamer tool set and a vacuum pump, which will set you back a few grand.

I also like working with my hands and doing things which are way different from my day job - but that is only me and I know some people have 10 thumbs when it comes to working with their hands.

@superdiy I agree 100%. I love working with my hands and doing things for myself. Then I know its done right the first time. More importantly it will LAST and I will not have to "redo" it in a year or two. I learned that lesson the hard way. I had to chase away many a plumber, builder, tiler...

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Viewed about 2/3 of the video ... but his way of presenting irritated me a wee bit. 

I said: " Ms DOS style i.e commands ... ".
Ms Dos was not easy to install either, for the non-IT person, so they slapped on a nice graphical display that works for all people whom are not developers. ;)

But before I digress. I thought I said:

16 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Note: Do NOT, if you are a Linux expert, try and defend Linux here. I will not listen.

Plonkster, you are not going to win me over. :D

I have had a few pals whom have tried over the years to convince me, and I was open, really I was.

And I have tried it a few times just because. Even had a Hyper-V scenario with Ubuntu setup for a friend to help him. But I am sorry, it is not for me, nor my clients, not for my family. Windows just works for all of us, one time.

If anyone wants to go Linux by all means DO!!! But know this, Linux is for free but either you learn very quick with help from Google, or keep your wallet open and full of cash. IT guys also need to live. :P

Windows or Linux ... someone is going to pay something. 

 

Plonkster I do buy into your point where it is maybe not that bad if we all pull in different directions with solar software. It can result in better software in the end.

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30 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I said: " Ms DOS style i.e commands ... ".

Fair enough :-)

When I started with Linux, you had to recompile the kernel before your sound card worked. That was when we still had discrete sound hardware. Then there was that exciting bit in the middle where people started bundling sound cards with motherboards (what a joy that was, even the windows drivers sometimes didn't work), and then thankfully it just became standard and it now just works (tm). Well, on Linux it just works, in Windows you have to install the supplied drivers first :-P

I remember this computer my girlfriend (now my wife) had at the time. We could not get that sound card going. I was practically reading the source code a few days later when I noted a line of commented code and something about a "buggy DMA controller". I uncommented that one line of code and the sound card started working, albeit at serious CPU usage. Turns out the motherboard makers put the sound chip on the ISA bus (who even remembers that?) and in this particular machine, the DMA controller for that bus was broken. What fun...

(Before you ask, us CS people needed Linux for our studies :-) ).

So given where Linux came from, you have to understand that I'm a little taken aback when people claim -- in 2016 -- that Linux is difficult. My goodness, what are you, mentally disabled (no offence meant to people who are actually mentally disabled of course)? But even as I say that, I know I'm biased. I know the barriers, and I know them because whenever you put me on a windows machine, I'm lost. Totally lost. Not quite as lost as I am in OSX, but still lost. First thing I do (you'll laugh), is hit Windows+R, and then I type cmd (Aaaah that feels better). Second thing I do is hit Windows+R and type c:\ (because figuring out where the heck "My Computer" is nowadays is too much trouble). Then a few minutes later I install Vim and Cygwin... and git, because git comes with git-bash and I'mn going to need git anyway. Powershell se gat, poor excuse for a proper shell. At this point the computer is ALMOST usable... :-P

I thought it was just me. My parents (old toppies in Namibia) have been using Linux ever since the 2.4 kernel came out. They are as lost as I am on a Windows machine :-)

Edit: Thankfully, the work I do on OSX is done remotely via ssh, using a *drumroll* shell. When I log into OSX, first thing I do is look for the shell. :-P

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And there I thought I was not mentally disabled - at least according to my pals, not necessarily my wife.

I did not claim Linux is difficult, so here I cannot be classed as mentally disabled either. :P

What I am saying is the moment you go for command line installations of software, that is not on for the end user ... I am the end user.

Ditto ... we both are biased. :D

I am a Win10 64bit Professional fan that I got for free, compliments of MS, for all the Pc's under my control.
Like to see software developed in Visual Studio - you get free versions.
And I like MS SQL Server - also get a free version.
And you get Win10 IoT for free for Rpi's.
And I have a cheap skate Win8 phone.
And I like Toyota and diesel Isuzu's, models older than 10 years, that have NO software in them, bar the alarm and radio's. :lol:

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But that is sort of my point... that in 2016 command-line installations isn't the norm anymore. Looking back at my post, I was kinda saying the opposite init? Sorry about that, poor attempt at humour. I mean to say, in 1997, I could understand when someone argued Linux was difficult (to install or use). In 2016... I'm a little less sympathetic to that statement. I am nevertheless sympathetic, because I know my struggles when I have to work on windows.

Most Linux distros have a graphical package manager. Redhat 4.1 (circa 1997) already had that. It was sucky, but definitely no worse than windows95! You don't have to use the command line. My 65-year old mother has no problem installing and uninstalling whatever she needs. Granted, doing the whole OS might be a bit of a challenge, mostly because asking someone about partitioning and a "disk label" is going to confuse someone who doesn't know what a partition is. But as I argued, even windows users don't do that anymore. The hypothetical "end user" won't be installing windows either.

The Free OSes have the additional problem that they have to coexist peacefully with whatever is already on the machine (usually windows), and they get very bad press if they do it wrong. Windows, on the other hand, has the luxury of being able to assume it's the only OS on the box. It will warn you about a partition of an unknown type (at best), but it will always overwrite the master boot record without asking. Always. If a free OS did that... there'd be hell to pay.

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