Johandup Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Achmat said: Just checked my DB and I have this Hager change over switch. I don't really think I understand what the complications are. Do you want to disconnect the inverter during thunder storms? Just flip the change over switch to position I and then make sure the pv and batteries are disconnected. As mentioned, the grid connection on the inverter is both an input and output. The aux can then be used for the generator and the inverter can be wired to start up the generator under certain conditions. Grid - > non essential loads - > inverter - > loads on backup. Generator - > aux input on inverter - > backup loads and battery charging. My setup is the following: Grid - > inverter - > backup loads on main inverter output and non essential loads on aux output. I'm in CT so don't have to contend with lightning or having to worry about switching back and forth. I have leds installed to indicate which circuits are live. As well all the switches have labels to indicate their functions. WeNotGood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Vassen said: how often do you change the switching. Isolate often when we have Highveld thunderstorms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACD Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Hi Leshen, interested to understand your reasoning for choosing to use the Bull batteries as opposed to the perhaps conventional Pylontech route? I'm considering a solar project, but am unsure on whether to go the Bull or Pylontech route. What has your experience been like with the Bulls, and are you still happy that you went with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 17 hours ago, ACD said: Hi Leshen, interested to understand your reasoning for choosing to use the Bull batteries as opposed to the perhaps conventional Pylontech route? I'm considering a solar project, but am unsure on whether to go the Bull or Pylontech route. What has your experience been like with the Bulls, and are you still happy that you went with them? Hi. How are you. Pylontech is a good battery, just like many other brands, ie Victron, which has developed a good reputation and because many people use it, it becomes the norm. However the only issue that I have with Pylontech is that it is a 0.5C battery, meaning, if you have 4 x 2.4kwh batteries in a bank totaling 9.6kwh, it will only deliver at any one time, 4,8kw, or 100A at 48v. The Bull battery is a 1C battery so you can instantaneously get the full 200A at 48v from a 9.6kwh battery bank which is approx 9.6kw. These values are limited by the BMS and are limits for discharging as well as charging. The Pylontech comes with a 35mm cable due to its click on connection. You cannot increase it. So if you need more than 5 especially with a Sunsynk installation, then a bus bar is needed which adds to cost. They both have the same life cycle ie 6000 cycles at 80% DOD and both come with a 10 year warranty. Then the deciding factor after taking all that into consideration is the cost. The Bull battery is a bit cheaper than the Pylontech. Hope this helps. Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 I am busy installing installing my sunsynk 8kw. Can somebody please supply photos or guidelines on where the earth wires must go to. I assumed that the connector boxes is the normal LNE connections but the earthing sign is missing. I saw on another posted photo just the red and black power wires. This will delay my installation so advice will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, Johandup said: I am busy installing installing my sunsynk 8kw. Can somebody please supply photos or guidelines on where the earth wires must go to. I assumed that the connector boxes is the normal LNE connections but the earthing sign is missing. I saw on another posted photo just the red and black power wires. This will delay my installation so advice will be appreciated. There is a separate earth bar which is on the extreme right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Leshen said: There is a separate earth bar which is on the extreme right. Thanks for this. Sunsynk up and running in standby mode. Need to get the panels up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Gents, another request please. Has anyone succeeded in connecting the inverter to Pylontech batteries to retrieve info. I’ve tried the Pylontech supplied cable to the RJ485 (?) but no info is retrieved. Any assistance will be highly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Johandup said: Gents, another request please. Has anyone succeeded in connecting the inverter to Pylontech batteries to retrieve info. I’ve tried the Pylontech supplied cable to the RJ485 (?) but no info is retrieved. Any assistance will be highly appreciated. Hi. You need to connect it to the CAN port. Not the RJ485 Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Leshen said: Hi. You need to connect it to the CAN port. Not the RJ485 I presume you refer to the included Pylontech cable. How quickly does it start to recover info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Johandup said: I presume you refer to the included Pylontech cable. How quickly does it start to recover info? The cable that’s included with the Pylontech is to link the batteries together. The Sunsynk comes with a yellow CAT5 cable that connects to the CAN port of the upper most battery presuming you have more than one. Should be a few minutes. Just power it off, wait for a couple of minutes and back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Leshen said: Just power it off, wait for a couple of minutes and back on. Power the pylontech off or the Sunsynk? Please provide a photo of the readings. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Johandup said: Power the pylontech off or the Sunsynk? Please provide a photo of the readings. Much appreciated. This is my settings for my pylontech batteries. You should then have the following icon on the bottom right on the home screen. If you click on the icon you will get the information from the battery bms. Edited January 10, 2021 by Achmat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImranR Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Good day all I’ve installed a Sunsynk 8kw inverter with a 6.4kw Bull battery and six 360W solar panels a week ago. The system works perfectly with no issues. My system is split between essential and non essential loads. The non essential loads are the geyser, stove & aircons. However, since load shedding last night I’ve noticed that all the appliances on which I’ve installed the Ellies surge protector plugs now indicate no ground when Eskom is out & the house is pulling power from the batteries. When Eskom is back on the surge protector plugs indicates everything is normal, meaning that all plugs are earthed. Is this normal or should I have the installer check up on this. I’m now also assuming that everything else might also not be earthed when the power goes out. Thanks in advance for any advice. Imran R IMG_0723.heic IMG_0728.heic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imran R Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Hi Vassan Thanks for the reply, I’m still new to this. As a newbie I’m not sure what the earth neutral bond relay is. From what I can gather it must be installed within the inverter. If so, is this something only the installer can do? What exactly does the relay look like? Is there perhaps a reason why the installer did not put in this piece of equipment or maybe it’s not something that’s common to all installations? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imran R Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, Vassen said: Hi Imraan There seems to be some confusion with some of the suppliers saying it’s not needed and even some users saying they don’t have it installed. however, sunsynk training manuals and videos say that it’s needed. it’s basically just a 220v relay with a 220v coil, that is used to connect the earth and the neutral together when the inverter is running without grid. Under normal operation, earth and neutral is bonded by the municipality/ eskom but when the grid is down, this bond is no longer there. So you end up with what is called the floating neutral which is why your plugs may be giving you errors. You can get the relay from AC/DC or other electrical shops. The AC/DC one is around R80. Whether you can install yourself or not depends on your capabilities and experience working on 220v. what you need to do is connect the coil of the relay to the ats240 pins on the inverter. Then the common terminal of relay can go to earth and the normally open terminal to the neutral on the LOAD SIDE of the inverter. If you are not comfortable, get the installer or electrician to install. The 8kw unit has enough space inside to install. I have the 5kw and installed it in the essential loads dB. Many thanks. You seem well experienced with the SunSynk inverter system. I’ve contacted my installer. Hopefully he will sort this out tomorrow. Looks like we all need to be engineers when installing inverter systems. Gone r the days where installation takes place and we sit back not knowing anything & hoping for the best. Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 47 minutes ago, Vassen said: Hi Imraan There seems to be some confusion with some of the suppliers saying it’s not needed and even some users saying they don’t have it installed. however, sunsynk training manuals and videos say that it’s needed. it’s basically just a 220v relay with a 220v coil, that is used to connect the earth and the neutral together when the inverter is running without grid. Under normal operation, earth and neutral is bonded by the municipality/ eskom but when the grid is down, this bond is no longer there. So you end up with what is called the floating neutral which is why your plugs may be giving you errors. You can get the relay from AC/DC or other electrical shops. The AC/DC one is around R80. Whether you can install yourself or not depends on your capabilities and experience working on 220v. what you need to do is connect the coil of the relay to the ats240 pins on the inverter. Then the common terminal of relay can go to earth and the normally open terminal to the neutral on the LOAD SIDE of the inverter. If you are not comfortable, get the installer or electrician to install. The 8kw unit has enough space inside to install. I have the 5kw and installed it in the essential loads dB. I think I should get me one of those plugs and see if they do the same at my house when the grid goes down. I also don't have the earth bond relay installed and don't have any trips on my DB. I do think having the whole house on the inverter would be different to splitting your main DB into essential and non essential loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leshen Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Vassen said: I don’t think it’s a matter tripping. DB breakers won’t trip. It just won’t be compliant and it’s a bit dangerous. best way to check is disconnect the grid and check the voltage between earth and neutral with a meter. It should be < 1V. Hi guys. I have did 4 installations, Sunsynk 8kw, all without an earth neutral bridge and when tested with Eskom offline, all have earth on all essential plugs. No elevated voltage between earth and neutral and earth leakage trips on the essential load when tested. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Vassen said: I don’t think it’s a matter tripping. DB breakers won’t trip. It just won’t be compliant and it’s a bit dangerous. best way to check is disconnect the grid and check the voltage between earth and neutral with a meter. It should be < 1V. Managed to get me one of those Ellies plugs and tested a few of the wall sockets and all of them are fine with the grid switched off. I do think not every install will require the earth bond relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imran R Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Achmat said: Managed to get me one of those Ellies plugs and tested a few of the wall sockets and all of them are fine with the grid switched off. I do think not every install will require the earth bond relay. My apologies if I’ve stressed you out as you organized the Ellie’s plug quite urgently to test your system out. As Leshen indicated, perhaps some systems need them and others don’t. Maybe it’s the way each system is connected, however, not sure. Will let you guys know what the installer does tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Leshen said: Hi guys. I have did 4 installations, Sunsynk 8kw, all without an earth neutral bridge and when tested with Eskom offline, all have earth on all essential plugs. No elevated voltage between earth and neutral and earth leakage trips on the essential load when tested. Regards One assumes that the municipal supply has the necessary neutral earth connection. When I did my db mods after the inverter it was necessary to create this myself as the neutral had to be independant (there is a lot of posts on this subject on the forum). It caused tripping before the linkup between the earth and neutral. I changed my db to a high and low amp side as my inverter was only 4kw. I remember all the neutrals had to be traced as my house is quite old and it was a real mixup after years of mods. I’ve replaced my oldish inverter with a new 8kw Sunsynk and I intend to run the whole house through it. I am just awaiting delivery of three new changeover switches so It can be done safely. Hopefully the high amp side will behave. But the low amp side with its own earth neatral connection is running fine. The only way, as mentioned, is to measure the volts between the neutral and earth on the inverter output. The better way is if you can measure the ma with a clampmeter. The rcd must also be installed on the output side of the inverter. Btw, one of the initial problems had been faulty Ellies plugs. I threw a lot of them away and replaced them with a decent (and cheap) surge suppressor mcb in the db. I’ve become a convert to db surge suppressors after my borehole was damaged by a surge. Edited January 15, 2021 by Johandup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, Johandup said: One assumes that the municipal supply has the necessary neutral earth connection. When I did my db mods after the inverter it was necessary to create this myself as the neutral had to be independant (there is a lot of posts on this subject on the forum). It caused tripping before the linkup between the earth and neutral. I changed my db to a high and low amp side as my inverter was only 4kw. I remember all the neutrals had to be traced as my house is quite old and it was a real mixup after years of mods. I’ve replaced my oldish inverter with a new 8kw Sunsynk and I intend to run the whole house through it. I am just awaiting delivery of three new changeover switches so It can be done safely. Hopefully the high amp side will behave. But the low amp side with its own earth neatral connection is running fine. The only way, as mentioned, is to measure the volts between the neutral and earth on the inverter output. The better way is if you can measure the ma with a clampmeter. The rcd must also be installed on the output side of the inverter. Btw, one of the initial problems had been faulty Ellies plugs. I threw a lot of them away and replaced them with a decent (and cheap) surge suppressor mcb in the db. I’ve become a convert to db surge suppressors after my borehole was damaged by a surge. Had this installed about 5 years ago. Not sure if it's what you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Achmat said: Had this installed about 5 years ago. Not sure if it's what you are referring to. Really the start option. The one light being off indicates it is defective. It is also supposed to go in next to the mains isolator. It is also dependand on whether you live in a high lightning area like the Highveld. Just google surge suppressors. Yellow Measure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achmat Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Johandup said: Really the start option. The one light being off indicates it is defective. It is also supposed to go in next to the mains isolator. It is also dependand on whether you live in a high lightning area like the Highveld. Just google surge suppressors. Will have it checked out. I think it's always only had the one light on since the electrician installed it. No lightning risk in Cape Town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johandup Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, Achmat said: Will have it checked out. I think it's always only had the one light on since the electrician installed it. No lightning risk in Cape Town. Take note that switching power on and off also create surges. On my photo (busy with some rework) you can see the surge suppressor. It prevented serious lightning damage in the db last season. Durbanguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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