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Question on panel watts resulting in a blown Victron 350va inverter


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The biggest hiding I got... I was in grade 8. Electricity was off-limits in the hostel, your radio/casette player had to be battery powered. Of course that didn't stop us from finding clever ways to access the mains. So while we were mucking around with the light switches, we discovered how circuits are looped, and of course it took only minutes before we figured out we can rewire that switch so all the lights go off in the two rooms next door. Word spread and we modified a few more... it was all fun and games until the supervisor found out. So we got called in, our parents were called, we got a big hiding, and then -- this is by far the funniest part of the story -- we were sent back to go fix it! No, they did not call an electrician, and though we were punished for messing with the wires, we were still allowed to work on it and fix it.

Later years, as prices came down, I obtained a sealed lead acid battery, and I learned about the LM317T to step the 12V down to the 7.5V my casette player used (utter pain that thing was, it took an odd number of C-sized cells). Then I would sneakily charge the battery at night in the ironing room.

Finally, the powers that be just relented and allowed us to use electricity. They reasoned this was much better than the present trend, which would in all likelihood lead to a fire sooner or later.

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TTT, I see electrolytic caps bulging. Those will all have to go and be replaced. I don't see any blown semiconductors in those photos. I would expect some kind of protection device in there too, a Varistor/MOV perhaps that has its head blown off, maybe some black package somewhere with a chunk of plastic missing.

Edit: Looks like Sanyo caps. Not bad quality. Don't replace with cheapies. Use decent quality/Name... NICHICON seems to be all the rage among youtubers.

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There is hope then ... I am couriering it to Edmund for assessment and repairs - if possible.

Also decided, after I have been polishing the hammer the last two days with care and TLC, preparing for Demolition Monday, that I will give myself one more chance.

Just one!

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If the electrolytics is the only damage... you had a very VERY lucky break. That... and I would be utterly reconfirmed as a member of the Church of Victron. Do keep us posted :-)

Seriously, I'm amazed that there are no visibly blown semiconductors...

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40 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

There is hope then ... I am couriering it to Edmund for assessment and repairs - if possible.

Also decided, after I have been polishing the hammer the last two days with care and TLC, preparing for Demolition Monday, that I will give myself one more chance.

Just one!

Don't be so hard on yourself. I think the fact that you have two different systems in your house perhaps contributed to you making a mistake.

 

If you do it again though we all will all kick you butt.

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54 minutes ago, plonkster said:

we were sent back to go fix it! No, they did not call an electrician, and though we were punished for messing with the wires, we were still allowed to work on it and fix it.

Hahaha epic

I had a quick look in mine but didn't take it apart just peered through one side, only thing to note is i didn't see a regulator for the control circuitry (there's a microchip pic). if its a discrete regulator it might have blown and if it did it could likely take the controller with it and then you have an expensive doorstop.

nichicon, panasonic, nippon chemicon. they aren't cheap though.  

 

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A friend of mine did the exact same thing with his Victron 350VA. 

Unit was sent back to ExSolar who after a few days reported it as irreparable.

Engineering pal of ours asked, can I try? Was fixed a few 'weeks' later. 

Ps. So the question may come up, why not send unit back to him?
Answer: After 8 months still waiting on 3 UPS'es and over 2 years on a new changeover box that just needs relays re-programmed, naaa, he does not need the extra cash.

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10 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

Don't be so hard on yourself. I think the fact that you have two different systems in your house perhaps contributed to you making a mistake.

If you do it again though we all will all kick you butt.

Thanks Chris but this is really getting to be very stupid of me. ADD ... I think I should get some pills.

Deal.

Actually waiting on a quote from http://www.energypartners.co.za/ which is 57% owned by holding company PSG Group.

Said grid tie is fine provided I can start small and expand and more importantly, use the array installed to power my existing system (once I get a new charge controller) to use as backup when Eskom starts slipping and sliding again.

With them, it is all their problem to fix and repair / replace. I basically buy power from them. Waiting for the numbers to see the viability for it would necessitate a rather big change of when to use what power during the day.

So then I thought, wait, I have a bunch of UPS'es! 

Charge the batts daytime and use them evenings to power TV's, lights, computers etc.
Ja, it might sound complicated but if you have the stuff laying around, no chance of selling the remaining stock, is it not cheaper that way than to go anti Islanding?

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1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Actually waiting on a quote from http://www.energypartners.co.za/ which is 57% owned by holding company PSG Group.

On the website, that icon energy hub, the heart of that thing looks suspiciously like an InfiniSolar inverter :-)

I hate having to source quotes. It means reaching out, ending up on marketing lists, and eventually telling n-1 people (or potentially all n of them) that thanks but no thanks. And keeping your pose when it is entirely outside of your reach and you don't want to look like a pleb who should have known that... :-) No, I far prefer a couple of ready systems with a price tag, or a price list I can peruse in private... that's me :-)

Absolutely hate it when people advertise stuff and you have to call for the price. I'm an introvert. I don't want to have to talk to you (at least, not necessarily) when I'm gathering info :-)

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On the website, that icon energy hub, the heart of that thing looks suspiciously like an InfiniSolar inverter :-)

I hate having to source quotes. It means reaching out, ending up on marketing lists, and eventually telling n-1 people (or potentially all n of them) that thanks but no thanks. And keeping your pose when it is entirely outside of your reach and you don't want to look like a pleb who should have known that... :-) No, I far prefer a couple of ready systems with a price tag, or a price list I can peruse in private... that's me :-)

Absolutely hate it when people advertise stuff and you have to call for the price. I'm an introvert. I don't want to have to talk to you (at least, not necessarily) when I'm gathering info :-)

I am exactly the same...

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, edmundp said:

I am exactly the same...

In fact, that is the very definition of introvert: That we get energy and information precisely by NOT talking to people. We spend energy (and convey information) when we talk to people. Mmmmh, this is an interesting line of thought: Could it be that in doing marketing and selling a certain way, you might be missing half the market?

:-)

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In fact, that is the very definition of introvert: That we get energy and information precisely by NOT talking to people. We spend energy (and convey information) when we talk to people. Mmmmh, this is an interesting line of thought: Could it be that in doing marketing and selling a certain way, you might be missing half the market?

:-)

Let me put it this way... if I cannot see your prices and products off the bat I am very reluctant to do business with you. Why must it be my effort?

I will only approach you in that case if you come VERY highly recommended.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Actually waiting on a quote from http://www.energypartners.co.za/ which is 57% owned by holding company PSG Group.

Very keen to hear how this goes... Looks very pretty but if they can finance at a rate where I am net saving then I'll consider it... depending on pay back period, etc.

Let us know...

 

PS:  Eskom doesn't allow feed in so this is going to be their challenge... 

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30 minutes ago, Mark said:

if they can finance at a rate where I am net saving

Biggest problem imho with green loans is that they run at interest rates that rival that of a personal loan or even credit card interest. I can buy a car at 8%-12% interest, but I have to cough up 20%+ on a green loan? Look, I understand the concept of secured and unsecured lending. I understand that a personal loan and a credit card is essentially unsecured. What I don't understand is why a depreciating asset such as a car can get rates rivaling home-loan rates, but green loans cannot.

To be fair, some things can be explained, and conditions are changing. Some of it might be due to supply and demand: There is always a demand for second hand cars, so it's a safe bet to use a car as security for the loan. Selling cars on hire-purchase or lease is also very well understood, solar systems not so much.

So I'm really hoping that in time, taking a loan for a solar system won't cost as much, because in theory, if I lapse on repayments, they can just repossess the system!

As I recall, borrowing money at home-loan rates for a grid-tie has made sense for years, since 2012 if I recall. In theory then, the point where borrowing money to hire-purchase a solar plant, and coming out on top, can't be too far away.

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Viper, I forgot about it plus his connection was for a few seconds, mine was a few minutes. He had no smoke, I had a LOT.

 

Flip side, some do not give prices, they want you to contact them for then you are more than just passing by on price. Plus once you put prices up, it can lead to a price war.

Or the exchange rate fluctuates and due to high turnover, resulting in constant price adjustments.

Yes, there is a silent market out there. But a good websites sorts that.

 

The guy came to see, he guesses about 700pm subject to formal quote, for a 2.4kw system, over 20 years with 8% escalation.

They own it all, they maintain it, and if you want to get out, there is a once off fee. If you want to take over, there is a fee.

What he did stress over and over, if you do this, make SURE you use all the power the system generates daytime, otherwise you are not going to show any savings at all. Respect for that.

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4 hours ago, plonkster said:

InfiniSolar inverter

They have different solutions, depending on what you need. Even SMA.

 

3 hours ago, Mark said:

Eskom doesn't allow feed in so this is going to be their challenge... 

City of Cape does allow, T&C apply. 

If have been told by the Energy Partners that new regulations are that if you connect in any way to Eskom, you need to have the system registered.

The only systems not needing any paperwork are the ones that are 100% off grid, no Eskom near the system whatsoever.

 

The Victron, imagine this unit can be repaired for the 2nd time, for as I said I forgot that it has happened before and this unit was fixed, just much worse this time round.

Now if it gets fixed for a 2nd time, Victron in my mind will be on a different plane compared to all makes.

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2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

They own it all, they maintain it, and if you want to get out, there is a once off fee. If you want to take over, there is a fee.

I saw the three options on the site. Buy it, rent to own, or just rent it. I would want to rent to own. I look at it this way. If I buy a car, I will usually spend a quarter of a million, and pay it off over 60 or 72 months. What I would like to do is buy a solar system for a quarter of a million, and pay if off over 60 months or so. Same idea, I just can't get it financed at the same low level as a car :-)

29 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

The only systems not needing any paperwork are the ones that are 100% off grid, no Eskom near the system whatsoever.

How many meters away must Eskom be? :-P

I think this is ridiculous. Do I have to register my UPS? If not, then an inverter that's essentially a solar-backed UPS shouldn't need to be registered either. I suppose where they will get me is by saying that my equipment has the capability to do such and such (if I ran it in Hub-1 or Hub-4 mode for example) and therefore has to be registered, even if not configured to do so. The Axpert inverter does not have the capability at all, so it would simply not make sense to me at all that those have to be registered... I mean registered as "embedded generators" because they simply aren't embedded in the proper sense.

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3 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

The guy came to see, he guesses about 700pm subject to formal quote, for a 2.4kw system, over 20 years with 8% escalation.

Ask him the cost of the rent-to-own option too, please? :-) I'm curious, and I don't want to talk to people :-P

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+1 - Once I get the numbers, I will post here for as you, I want to rent to own and if it does not work as advertised, my wife wants to speak to someone.

I asked the same question, what about my system, what about Voltronic ... you have panels, you connect to Eskom, you must register is what I gleaned from the conversation.

And if you feed back, you need the paperwork for the meter, the engineers all of it. As I speculated here on the forum before, someday CoCT will use the same areal photos they use to pick up on unregistered building extensions, to trace unregistered solar installations. Question of time for that to happen.

Remember Plonkster, there are many others out there whom are not as safety inclined as some of us are here, on this thread I obviously excluded myself as being very unsafe.

I just got fuses on my panels last week for Pete's sake, first ever since 2011! :P

Had them professional installed - with spare fuses next to me on my desk. ;)

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On 6/24/2016 at 2:18 PM, The Terrible Triplett said:

I have a question re. MPPT controllers.

Two panels, specs below, connected in series onto a MPPT controller, assuming all is perfect with sunlight and temp:

Panel details:
Voltage at max. power: 26,7V
Current at max. power: 7,5A
Open circuit voltage: 32,9V
Short circuit current: 8A

This means that, connected, incoming from panels, into the controller:
Volts would be 53.4
Amps would be 8
Total watts could be: 400

Question: 
What should the total watts be that the MPPT charge controller shows incoming from panels - 400w or 200w?

It may sound like a stupid question, but if it is 400, as I think it should be, then I want to send a email to the supplier to ask them to fix their firmware.

Wait. Victron made a mistake? ^chuckle^ ;)

 

On a series note: When joining panels in series, the Ampere stay the same and the volts add up. So, using the specs above you have 53.4V & 8A as you say. 

BUT, MPPT trackers don't quite work that way. For this configuration you want an MPPT with an Voc (Open Circuit Voltage) which is slightly more than that. Without searching through all your posts & photos, let's asume you have a Victron 75/15. This charge controller can handle upto 75V OCV and 400W - IF your battery bank is 24V. At 12V it can only handle 200W.  The Microcare 20A MPPT (which is also blue ;) ) can handle 240W (slightly more) but has a Voc of 45V, on a 24V battery bank. 

So, to get the most of your panels, you would need to run a 24V battery bank. Or run the batteries in parallel - but you will go over the Victron 75/15 and 100/15's current limit of 15A. The Microcare 20A can handle 460W and should be fine in this case. 

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