Guest Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks SilverNodashi, indeed Chris posted the correct Victron info that I completely forgot about. Must say the 2 panels in series for 12v system, did very well, but not ideal setup as you also confirm. Controller was bought for just the two panels in series. Problem started very subtly due to 1 panel not being put back for a while after having had to replace the diodes. Then at the same time a 12v inverter was just standing around not used ... so why not ... it all just culminated into the prefect disaster, just like in the movies, all in slow motion. All has been sorted on that front now. Panels are up, 24v and even fused. The inverter is on its way to Edmund though. Lesson: Do not have 12v and 24v systems in same proximity, no matter who you are. It is a disaster lying waiting for an opportunity to nip you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Thanks SilverNodashi, indeed Chris posted the correct Victron info that I completely forgot about. Must say the 2 panels in series for 12v system, did very well, but not ideal setup as you also confirm. Controller was bought for just the two panels in series. Problem started very subtly due to 1 panel not being put back for a while after having had to replace the diodes. Then at the same time a 12v inverter was just standing around not used ... so why not ... it all just culminated into the prefect disaster, just like in the movies, all in slow motion. All has been sorted on that front now. Panels are up, 24v and even fused. The inverter is on its way to Edmund though. Lesson: Do not have 12v and 24v systems in same proximity, no matter who you are. It is a disaster lying waiting for an opportunity to nip you. haha! Good lesson to learn. Same lesson: Don't mix 12V and 220V lights in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, SilverNodashi said: Don't mix 12V and 220V light Jip, got that T-Shirt also. Luckily the 12v lights where cheap ones in my case. You know what ... with all the stuff I have made go poof ... it was fun once you got over the skrik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Right, FWIW, the inverter I so beautifully blew the caps on, it is the 2nd time this unit is being repaired. The previous occasion, not me, the pos and neg was swapped around, and blew the fuse. ExSolar could not repair it, fuse too difficult to reach or some such, so it was fixed by a friend of a friend. Worked beautifully since. So, the jury is still out, but lets put it on the scoreboard. Victron so far has: Survived a pos/neg swap, after but a minor fuse replacement, so +50 points for 350va Victron inverter. If the caps are replaced and it works as before, then + another 100 points for Victron. New caps will be these: http://za.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7152707/ What say you @Chris Hobson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 OK. So here it is: This transformer is amazing. Heavy as lead. Solid molded core to avoid noise. Brilliant! Very solid tracks to carry load. Very solid. Overall good solder quality. Component side. Good spacing. Very high quality components. In all testing through everything the device seems fine. Really. After 24V for several minutes it is just fine. Unbelievable. Mosfets fine. Drivers fine. DC rail fine. SMPS fine. All that seems knackered is the caps on the H bridge that receives voltage whether the inverter is running or not. What I am going to theorize is that the inverter actually shut itself down in protection mode. Thus no damage except the above. Caps on order and the only way to see if the microcontroller is damaged is to switch it on. Although I doubt that from what I am seeing. Speaking from experience with electronic failure this is certainly not the norm. Most devices have a daisy chain failure sequence - one thing goes and a series of components fail until ultimately the power is somehow disconnected. Impressive. Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk Mark, Janma, Gerald_db and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 On 6/29/2016 at 4:15 PM, The Terrible Triplett said: Right, FWIW, the inverter I so beautifully blew the caps on, it is the 2nd time this unit is being repaired. The previous occasion, not me, the pos and neg was swapped around, and blew the fuse. ExSolar could not repair it, fuse too difficult to reach or some such, so it was fixed by a friend of a friend. Worked beautifully since. So, the jury is still out, but lets put it on the scoreboard. Victron so far has: Survived a pos/neg swap, after but a minor fuse replacement, so +50 points for 350va Victron inverter. If the caps are replaced and it works as before, then + another 100 points for Victron. New caps will be these: http://za.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7152707/ What say you @Chris Hobson? Interestingly, I haven't seen any MPPT charge controllers with reverse polarization protection. Some inverters have it though edmundp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 10 hours ago, SilverNodashi said: Interestingly, I haven't seen any MPPT charge controllers with reverse polarization protection. Some inverters have it though You gave me a though, so I went and checked.Morningstar PWM has these electronic Protections: • Reverse polarity protection (any combination) • Short-circuit protection • Overcurrent protection • Lightning and transient surge protection using 4500W transient voltage suppressors • High temperature protection via automatic current reduction or complete shut down • Prevents reverse current from battery at night And the MPPT these: Battery reverse polarity (fuse) Output short circuit Over-temperature protection and power de-rating when temperature is high. And the big Phoenix inverter: a) output short circuit b ) overload c) battery voltage too high d) battery voltage too low e) temperature too high f) 230V AC on inverter output g) input voltage ripple too high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: You gave me a though, so I went and checked.Morningstar PWM has these electronic Protections: • Reverse polarity protection (any combination) • Short-circuit protection • Overcurrent protection • Lightning and transient surge protection using 4500W transient voltage suppressors • High temperature protection via automatic current reduction or complete shut down • Prevents reverse current from battery at night And the MPPT these: Battery reverse polarity (fuse) Output short circuit Over-temperature protection and power de-rating when temperature is high. And the big Phoenix inverter: a) output short circuit b ) overload c) battery voltage too high d) battery voltage too low e) temperature too high f) 230V AC on inverter output g) input voltage ripple too high I don't have a, or work with, morningstar. On that note though, many cheap PWM charge controllers DO have reverse polarization. So this begs the question: "Do the big guys leave it out on purpose, knowing some bloke will make a mistake, and then have to buy a new one"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said: "Do the big guys leave it out on purpose, knowing some bloke will make a mistake, and then have to buy a new one"? You should look at Morningstar. They have been around many many years. I posted the MS info on purpose, to demonstrate the vast difference between them and Victron. Tough question, but I lean towards yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 So hey, @edmundp and @The Terrible Triplett, what's the news on the 12V inverter with the blown caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Waiting for parts to arrive from England. Just hope they did not Brexit on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLARWIND Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 On 6/27/2016 at 3:27 PM, The Terrible Triplett said: And if you feed back, you need the paperwork for the meter, the engineers all of it. As I speculated here on the forum before, someday CoCT will use the same areal photos they use to pick up on unregistered building extensions, to trace unregistered solar installations. Question of time for that to happen. CoCT already does just that! It was confirmed while I was on an installers course earlier this year where some guys from CoCT were also attending! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Waiting for parts to arrive from England Mmmh right, I've forgotten that RS sometimes don't have stuff in stock and then it takes between 10 and 20 days to get it. There is a video channel on youtube called "state of electronics" where some of this is discussed, how the hobbyist "shop" has gone under and everything now happens via the internet. You guys will probably enjoy that. This would normally be a great thing... but oh the Post Office... our dear Post Office. When it goes well, it gets here within 6 weeks. My last two shipments from China both arrived within 6 weeks. I know our esteemed politicians have bigger problems to solve (when they aren't stealing from the state kitty that is), but man... imagine what our kids could do with an easy supply of electronic components. 14 minutes ago, SOLARWIND said: CoCT already does just that! I wonder what they do when they rock up at some place to discover the guy is running his DC pool pump from it, or he has a DC retrofit geyser element connected to it. Also, I wonder if the 6 panels outside my place will trip any alarms... :-) Edit: Quick look from Google maps. The pictures of my place shows the first two panels I installed back in 2013 (you can only see them from streetview). I would be very impressed if someone can spot them from Google's pictures. I can't see them. Maybe CoCT has access to better quality pictures. If course I deliberately placed them a little out of sight, mostly to avoid opportunistic theft issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Jip. Thing is we actually have one. But the problem is.... They do not stock the good stuff. They order from rs themselves. They slap like a 3000% markup on stuff. I was once quoted R1200 for just a RPi2b board. Ludicrous. When I order these days I only use proper courier service. Lost 2.5k package last year and both supplier and post office just pulled up their shoulders... so sad. Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Second thought... those solar frontier panels must be much harder to spot :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 18 minutes ago, plonkster said: I wonder what they do when they rock up at some place to discover the guy is running his DC pool pump from it, or he has a DC retrofit geyser element connected to it. Also, I wonder if the 6 panels outside my place will trip any alarms... :-) If you are using it for your pool, geyser and neither is in anyway connected to Eskom, off-grid in other words, you can prove that very easily. But lets be serious for a moment. Lets say I am CoCT tasked with finding unregistered solar installations: I see the panels on the aerial photo. Check for paperwork. I find none. Then I pull your electricity usage for the last few years. Seeing a reduction, I send you a email / letter asking for proof of installation. If I hear nothing from you, I shall send my 2 henchmen to visit you one evening, both dressed in black suites, black tie, black sunglasses, to ensure we have your attention. Thought my system was ok, being off-grid. Allegedly it is not for I have Eskom in the mix, so I allegedly have to register it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Did you try Communica or Mantek? That CAP is fairly common. I'm sure even GT Electronics in Boksburg would have it in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Just now, The Terrible Triplett said: If you are using it for your pool, geyser and neither is in anyway connected to Eskom, off-grid in other words, you can prove that very easily. But lets be serious for a moment. Lets say I am CoCT tasked with finding unregistered solar installations: I see the panels on the aerial photo. Check for paperwork. I find none. Then I pull your electricity usage for the last few years. Seeing a reduction, I send you a email / letter asking for proof of installation. If I hear nothing from you, I shall send my 2 henchmen to visit you one evening, both dressed in black suites, black tie, black sunglasses, to ensure we have your attention. Thought my system was ok, being off-grid. Allegedly it is not for I have Eskom in the mix, so I allegedly have to register it too. Move to Gauteng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said: Move to Gauteng Do you think for one moment the ANC will allow you bunch to reduce their profits from Eskom? Seriously, I bet you CoCT is the pilot province, once they have it down to a fine art, the rest will follow and do their own thing. Too much money at stake here that will be lost by Eskom / municipalities, if more "rich" customers go this route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 23 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Then I pull your electricity usage for the last few years. Aaaah, you will see that I halved it, but most definitely not by using the 6 panels outside. If and when such a letter arrives, I'll have to deal with it. I still think it is ridiculous that I have to register my "UPS". Edit: In fact, I am such a good customer, you don't really want to chase me away... at least not any sooner than is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 minute ago, plonkster said: I still think it is ridiculous that I have to register my "UPS". I concur. Issue comes in that 99.9% of the population does not have enough knowledge on what a DB board does. Then they go and purchase a solar system to save on electricity, by having it connected to same DB using a "professional" company, that started in 2016 with "years" of experience. So now, we, who have 2 brain cells, have to fall under same regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Then they go and purchase a solar system to save on electricity, by having it connected to same DB using a "professional" company, that started in 2016 with "years" of experience. Much less work to just go after the cowboy installers then. You can track them all down via gumtree :-) Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 1 hour ago, plonkster said: Second thought... those solar frontier panels must be much harder to spot :-) This is my footprint on Google. The fact that the panels are not on the roof may make it more difficult to see. My bank of panels is the rectangle north of the house. This is the best resolution I can get off Google Maps. I know images from urban areas the detail is better edmundp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Mmm, Mine is already on Google Maps ... Best resolution I get. Can you see them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Mmm, Mine is already on Google Maps ... Best resolution I get. Can you see them? yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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