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Which component is tripping?


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Our System:

Goodwe 5048D-ES

10 x 435 watt Canadian Solar panels (CS3W-435MS)

1 x Pylontech Lithium US3000

Oven and 2 geysers operating from the grid, all else on the Solar system

My question: The system, taken into use on Friday afternoon (11/12), tripped in the early hours of Sunday morning, about 03h00 (13/12) when we had a power failure due to cable theft (Alberton area).

The installer came out and the system was reset, but, due to us not having "Solar Experience", we tripped the system later on, by using to many appliances and not knowing how to reset the system after tripping. This resulted in us not having power for a couple of hours until Sunday evening 21h00, when Escom power was restored and the the system restarted with all systems operating. Total power failure time about 16 hours, Sunday was a good day, with loads of sun. When the trip happened there was about 65% charge in the battery.

Monday, with the help of the installer, it was established that the system trips as the use of items increased. With the microwave on, no problem, then the hair dryer got added and the system tripped apparently at "15" something (Watts, I do not know). I do not know if it is the battery or the inverter, but the installer is of the opinion that it could be a problem with the battery. Would it be advisable to add another battery unit? We currently have the single battery on recommendation of the installer. The first couple of days the battery charged to a max. of 88% then it went up to 100% whilst operating on the Backup mode, Wednesday morning (16/12)

Today we experienced another trip, but with Escom power it took a while and everything was back up and running. When we had a power failure (Sunday) it was a more complicated reset by the installer, as the battery discharged to minimum without anything drawing current for some unknown reason.

The system is now operating on "Backup Mode", battery not discharging and I would like to know how to prevent the system tripping, make use of the battery and save some money in the process.

I would like to know if it is the battery or the inverter causing the system to trip. Any advice on how to prevent the system from tripping and how to reset the system when it happens please.

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You will probably have to name "all else connected to the inverter" since you have 4,6 kw to work with you need to keep your loads below that in backup mode. You didn't mention the stove.

 

The 8,8kw sunsyks seems to be the best option for powering all else. For smaller inverters you actually need to reduce your usage with more efficient appliances and try not use heavy appliances at the same time.

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You also have too little batteries for the inverter. The pylontech bms will only limit the battery discharge rate to 37A per battery. That is 1.776kw per battery. Running the microwave and hair dryer will definitely exceed this. On a 5kw inverter the minimum recommended batteries would be 3 x US3000 batteries. 

I have 3 us3000 batteries on my 8kw sunsynk inverter and the inverter will trip if I pull more than 111A from the batteries even though the inverter is rated higher. 

Edited by Achmat
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Thank you for the feedback.

1. Richard, the Inverter is a Goodwe 5048D-ES

2. Buyeye, all else are the plugs and lights. (the house fridge, mini bar fridge and upright freezer, HiFi, TV, WiFi and computer.) Regarding the stove we have a gas hob and electric oven.

3. Achmat, thank you for the info regarding batteries. Do you reckon that it is the Inverter tripping?

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8 minutes ago, Barry de Kock said:

Thank you for the feedback.

1. Richard, the Inverter is a Goodwe 5048D-ES

2. Buyeye, all else are the plugs and lights. (the house fridge, mini bar fridge and upright freezer, HiFi, TV, WiFi and computer.) Regarding the stove we have a gas hob and electric oven.

3. Achmat, thank you for the info regarding batteries. Do you reckon that it is the Inverter tripping?

Not familiar with your inverter but I would assume that when you are pulling more than 37A from the battery for a continuous amount of time, the BMS will shutdown the battery from supplying any more power causing the inverter to trip. 

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25 minutes ago, Barry de Kock said:

Thank you for the feedback.

1. Richard, the Inverter is a Goodwe 5048D-ES

2. Buyeye, all else are the plugs and lights. (the house fridge, mini bar fridge and upright freezer, HiFi, TV, WiFi and computer.) Regarding the stove we have a gas hob and electric oven.

3. Achmat, thank you for the info regarding batteries. Do you reckon that it is the Inverter tripping?

It sounds like you have enough battery just for those things you mentioned now and no room for a microwave , iron or hairdryer.  You could get a second battery that might help you use one heavy appliance with your base load(fridges,  lights and computers).

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9 hours ago, Achmat said:

Not familiar with your inverter but I would assume that when you are pulling more than 37A from the battery for a continuous amount of time, the BMS will shutdown the battery from supplying any more power causing the inverter to trip. 

I agree with Achmat it might be the battery that trips and not the inverter due to the battery being a bit under sized for your loads. 

One way to check your loads is to download batteryview on a laptop and plug your pylontech battery directly to the laptop. You can leave it running for at least 24hrs and it will show you when you draw big loads and see any alarms in the pylontech’s log. It should even show you those previous trips that happened. I initially used batteryview for the first three weeks when installing my pylon battery. That helped me to check all my loads and any alarm warnings. I then wired my system according to the battery capacity.

Once you know the problem you can decide to alter a circuit or buy an extra battery. You might find you need a extra battery for the three minutes per day of hair drying that will cost you R20K or it can be a geyser that is on battery that the electrician forgot to take of the inverter load.

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15 hours ago, Barry de Kock said:

due to us not having "Solar Experience", we tripped the system later on, by using to many appliances and not knowing how to reset the system after tripping.

This puzzles me. I have the same inverter. It does trip sometimes because people do turn too many things on at a time, but it always resets itself. I haven't timed this, but it takes maybe 2 minutes to go through the entire cycle of whatever it does.

Even when I have had to shut the system down in the evening we have never been left without power - even if that meant drawing from the grid.

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11 hours ago, Barry de Kock said:

all else are the plugs and lights. (the house fridge, mini bar fridge and upright freezer, HiFi, TV, WiFi and computer.) Regarding the stove we have a gas hob and electric oven.

Your inverter will trip at 20A (though it will take that load for a few seconds). There's plenty of scope with just plugs.

I just looked at some labels. The wife's hairdryer is rated at 1580 to 1820 watts depending on which settings are used. Our kettle is 1850 to 2020 watts. The "background noise" in our house (fridges, decoders etc) is 300 to 400 watts. So those three happening simultaneously is already over 4200 watts - getting close to the limit for the system already.

When my system was installed the sparky recommended that we don't back the kitchen up. I like the idea of a cold beer so it stayed backed up, but we'd be close to bullet proof if it wasn't, The combination of kettle, microwave and dishwasher can exceed the 20 amp limit. 

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2 hours ago, Gerrie said:

I agree with Achmat it might be the battery that trips and not the inverter due to the battery being a bit under sized for your loads. 

One way to check your loads is to download batteryview on a laptop and plug your pylontech battery directly to the laptop. You can leave it running for at least 24hrs and it will show you when you draw big loads and see any alarms in the pylontech’s log. It should even show you those previous trips that happened. I initially used batteryview for the first three weeks when installing my pylon battery. That helped me to check all my loads and any alarm warnings. I then wired my system according to the battery capacity.

Once you know the problem you can decide to alter a circuit or buy an extra battery. You might find you need a extra battery for the three minutes per day of hair drying that will cost you R20K or it can be a geyser that is on battery that the electrician forgot to take of the inverter load.

Thank you for your reply,

In all fairness to the installer, who has been very helpful and has taken his yearly holiday break, put the system in/on backup  mode leaving the battery charged at 100% by Escom. When following your recommendation regarding batteryview, which mode should I change it to? Geysers and oven was left on Escom grid, no kettle, gas hob and like you say "Background Noise" adds up, but, we try not to overload/ exceed items being used as inexperienced solar newbies. We do try to use the washing machine, dishwasher and other high draw household items during periods of high PV, full sun generation. Hair dryer being used maybe once a week and we do realise that we need to educate ourselves as to how, what, where and when to use items adapting to the solar power system.

If it is the battery that trips, what would be the process to reset it and the system?

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Does your system trip while eskom is present....? Almost sounds that way when you describe it... it is def not supposed to do that.... i have the same inverter.... did not split my backup and essential loads... not in the traditional sense, i have the entire db loaded on the main supply side of the inverter, and the backup as well, switching with a manual changeover, i have never had the inverter reset or trip when used on the back up side if the grid is off, you can on the one had easily do it, but also if doing things responsibly it can actually be quite hard ( i am in similar setup to yours, having gas stove etc, solar geyser, with those few removed it becomes hard to max out the inverter's 4.6kw backup side....)

 

If grid is present it is supposed to supplement what the pv or battery cannot provide at any given stage,  no matter what the load is, it will just add from the grid, or that is how i understood it always... might be something else wrong with your setup... and also to bobsters point, if the actual inverter trips, then it should only be about 2 mins, since the inverter basically reboots before power is back on, if a trip then happens in short succession then is is a longer period, i think like 15 mins or something before power is restored since the inverter has an internal mechanism to protect itself from overheating when overloaded.... the little i can add.....

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Saint said:

Does your system trip while eskom is present....? Almost sounds that way when you describe it... it is def not supposed to do that.... i have the same inverter.... did not split my backup and essential loads... not in the traditional sense, i have the entire db loaded on the main supply side of the inverter, and the backup as well, switching with a manual changeover, i have never had the inverter reset or trip when used on the back up side if the grid is off, you can on the one had easily do it, but also if doing things responsibly it can actually be quite hard ( i am in similar setup to yours, having gas stove etc, solar geyser, with those few removed it becomes hard to max out the inverter's 4.6kw backup side....)

 

If grid is present it is supposed to supplement what the pv or battery cannot provide at any given stage,  no matter what the load is, it will just add from the grid, or that is how i understood it always... might be something else wrong with your setup... and also to bobsters point, if the actual inverter trips, then it should only be about 2 mins, since the inverter basically reboots before power is back on, if a trip then happens in short succession then is is a longer period, i think like 15 mins or something before power is restored since the inverter has an internal mechanism to protect itself from overheating when overloaded.... the little i can add.....

 

 

Thank you,

Only trip if Escom/grid side is off. Supplementary power from grid side does come through when needed.

Apologies if I do not explain/express myself correctly, new to this with all the terminology and items.

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20 minutes ago, Barry de Kock said:

Again, new to it all. Where on the app will i find the information?

Hi Barry

Is your inverter linked to your WiFi? Also are you registered on the SEMS portal?

This should hopefully give you some idea of the what happened.

Cheers

Dave

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2 hours ago, DaveP said:

 

Hi Barry

Is your inverter linked to your WiFi? Also are you registered on the SEMS portal?

This should hopefully give you some idea of the what happened.

Cheers

Dave

Hi David,

Inverter linked to WiFi and on the SEMS portal as well as PV Master, but I have no clue what to look for and how to interpret some of the info. Could you give me some guidelines what and where to look for what and use the information?

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2 hours ago, Barry de Kock said:

Hi David,

Inverter linked to WiFi and on the SEMS portal as well as PV Master, but I have no clue what to look for and how to interpret some of the info. Could you give me some guidelines what and where to look for what and use the information?

I've just had a look on the PC and the normal user profile doesn't allow you to look at the alarm records.

I assume your inverter has been registered with your installers profile. If not you can use mine and I will have a look for you.

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It looks like the inverter manufacturers have all installed a WiFi/Bluetooth link to their inverters. That's fine. What it probably also means is that they don't have to install a display on the inverter (and shave a $ off the price)

Having a brief look at this inverter on the Goodwe site I see it doesn't have any text/graphical display. So for you to interrogate a trip you'll need to connect via one of the (web) apps..

Any Goodwe users out there who have done this already??

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3 minutes ago, Richard Mackay said:

It looks like the inverter manufacturers have all installed a WiFi/Bluetooth link to their inverters. That's fine. What it probably also means is that they don't have to install a display on the inverter (and shave a $ off the price)

Having a brief look at this inverter on the Goodwe site I see it doesn't have any text/graphical display. So for you to interrogate a trip you'll need to connect via one of the (web) apps..

Any Goodwe users out there who have done this already??

@gbyleveldthas a Goodwe. 

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