Weasel Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multi-500-va all i can say is i like it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 YES!!! I want one - 12v on my 2nd hand battery bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Prices: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Web_Pricelist_C-Euro_2016_Q3.pdf Multi500VA +- € 480 = maybe R 7 626.04 - will get it cheaper than that!!! EDIT: I like this so much of Victron, as per little one's manual: 6. MAINTENANCE The Multi does not require specific maintenance. It will suffice to check all connections once a year. Avoid moisture and oil / soot / vapours, and keep the device clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Now I wonder, 1) Can it run all the fun assistants that the bigger ones can and 2) can it be paralleled? I see a VE.bus socket on the bottom, so there is a chance it can do some special stuff, but I suppose I'll have to ask about that :-) I suppose some might think it silly to parallel such a small inverter, and it certainly isn't very cost effective (three of them will cost a good 20% more than one 1.6kva), but usually you can parallel up to 6 of them, so you would be able to build a 3kva inverter piece by piece... I'm still chasing the perfect "incremental" approach, as you can see :-) Noobie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Nope, cannot parallel. Stand-alone / parallel / 3-phase stand-alone (parallel and 3 phase operation not possible) EDIT: Got a price at R 5 989.50 so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Nope, cannot parallel. Stand-alone / parallel / 3-phase stand-alone (parallel and 3 phase operation not possible) So it sits neatly between the 1200VA Multiplus and the 800VA Phoenix. It essentially adds a transfer switch and charger to a Phoenix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Ditto. Ideal for those small bastard loads you want off-grid. You charge the batteries using a relay / timer, and draw power from the larger system daytime, no controller or panels needed then. EDIT: I am soo lus for one, then it struck me, the small 350va is on it's way back, have the controller and panels, so I will be very naughty buying this one ... SWAMBO must understand, she will understand, I know she will understand ... will she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I think I found the last damn leeches in my place. Alarm clock and some quiescent currents in the main bedroom pulls around 30 watts or so. The tenant in the flatlet upstairs also has some parasites plugged in somewhere, these total somewhere between 30W and 120W, though neither the Efergy/Owl nor the prepaid meter itself can accurately tell me the number. The prepaid meter (conlog) has this feature where you press #1# and it tells you the average power use over the last 15 seconds. That alternates back and forth between 0 and 120... Sadly not too much I can do about it just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Leeches are one thing, clock radios / alarms are quite rough I found. It is the bastard 24/7 loads what Ed and I are chasing. Loads you cannot really go without, ag you can, but don't want / have to. They tend to be spread all over, so to get them all cost effectively, is an interesting puzzle to solve. Or maybe you don't want to change the alarm to not send a signal that the power is off, for it is running off a larger battery ... or more leads laying around. Makes it quite a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 That GeeWizz people you posted about the other day. They make a ridiculously small 75W 12V inverter. Just layer several of those all over the place, eps8266 over wifi for comms... :-) Edit: Hang on, output on that 75W unit is 110V. It's only meant for chargers and other SMPS stuff that work on such a wide range of voltages. Big Clive (on youtube) reviewed a similar one and found it makes somewhere between 90V and 130V DC (!) on the output :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 46 minutes ago, plonkster said: That GeeWizz people you posted about the other day. They make a ridiculously small 75W 12V inverter. Just layer several of those all over the place, eps8266 over wifi for comms... :-) Mmmm ... and make it so that you can hot swap the batteries for re-charging after running 2 weeks off one of them. Wonder how long they will last. What do you mean by the EPS8266 comms? So far I have moved 3 network switches, all the WiFi points, 2 routers, Mikrotik, DSTV and Bosch fridge off-grid, not spending one extra cent. Tonight I am going to test the 210l Defy freezer, the 1300w should handle it. Getting another A+ freezer tomorrow. If all the above can run off-grid with batts staying above 80% SOC, it is a done deal. Adding lights off-grid is a wee bit of a bother for then the main batts go down to +-78% SOC (before the freezers) so I am thinking of putting them on the repaired Victron and be done. Neukery is I am boxed in with 75/15 controller and the 2 x 200w panels on 12v inverter. Wish there was a 2nd hand market that one can horse trade it for a 100/30 controller, using said panels on 12v, and get the 400w from the panels. Then lights are off-grid on 2nd hand batts as you do, too. Then alarm and a few bed lamps are left - maybe the 75w inverters, think I must order one. Then for the 2nd round is TV and soundbar, and 2 garage motors. The 2 motors need 24v so the batts are a bastard to sort for them. Wonder how long the 2 motors will run on 2 x 100ah maintenance free batts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I am getting one. Fo sho. Going to swindle some stuff gathering dust.... Move fridge, lights and a few odd lightly loaded plugs to it on seperate db. Charge by day from main system. Exciting times!! Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Okay @edmundp now you have your bigger system charging the smaller system . What happens when you have cloudy days? The standalone way less complicated system just reaches preset low SOC value and swaps to bypass mode. Leave it to run on Eskom till the sun comes shining to power the loads and charge the bank. Now for the split system that ran the smaller system loads and drained the batts on this one, (not sure if main system also ran loads on it's own bank). Next day is cloudy main system continues and swaps over to Eskom on preset SOC but before that happens you already started charging the smaller system from your other bank? Then finally after the swap to Eskom on the main system your smaller system is now charging on Eskom as your surely don't want another night to run the batteries already on a low SOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Viper, good points raised. 50% DOD with 2 days backup. If it exceeds that, tough, it is winter. The other, wot, 345 days of the year all is fine. And with 2nd hand batts, who cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, The Terrible Triplett said: What do you mean by the EPS8266 comms? 5 minutes ago, viper_za said: What happens when you have cloudy days? That's where the comms channel comes in. You want your downstream systems to charge only when 1) the main bank is either in absorb or float, and 2) the sun is still shining. You don't want to charge one battery from the other, that's very inefficient, but if you can charge "directly from the pv" that increases the efficiency. So now your distributed network of UPSes needs to know what the upstream system is doing, and the cheapest way to do that is to hook little microcontrollers into your WiFi. Aka esp8266 :-) A silly idea, use it, don't use it. edmundp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Okay @edmundp now you have your bigger system charging the smaller system . What happens when you have cloudy days? The standalone way less complicated system just reaches preset low SOC value and swaps to bypass mode. Leave it to run on Eskom till the sun comes shining to power the loads and charge the bank. Now for the split system that ran the smaller system loads and drained the batts on this one, (not sure if main system also ran loads on it's own bank). Next day is cloudy main system continues and swaps over to Eskom on preset SOC but before that happens you already started charging the smaller system from your other bank? Then finally after the swap to Eskom on the main system your smaller system is now charging on Eskom as your surely don't want another night to run the batteries already on a low SOC. You assume lead acid.... Actually quite simple. Switch 2nd system to bypass via software. Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk I like complicated and I like a challenge even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, plonkster said: That's where the comms channel comes in. Yeah understood but now you are now charging from Eskom no more saving from the PV since you cant let that small system run flat it's got your fridge running 4 minutes ago, plonkster said: 1) the main bank is either in absorb or float, and 2) the sun is still shining For this a semi cloudy day, just enough sun to barely charge then main bank meets all the conditions. But charging of secondary system kicks just enough to not meet those conditions anymore. What now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: The other, wot, 345 days of the year all is fine. Nie as jy in die Kaap bly nie 12 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: And with 2nd hand batts, who cares My fridge/freezer full of meat running on this smaller system cares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Want to see you run a fridge on a 75w or 500va inverter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, edmundp said: You assume lead acid... Okay 3-4 days cloudy, this does happen 5 minutes ago, edmundp said: Actually quite simple. Switch 2nd system to bypass via software. This now leads to a very complicated DB and getting someone that will COC this for you will be a challenge on its own as you will need this as you will have switching from your main system or eskom on the smaller system when cloudy conditions arrive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Want to see you run a fridge on a 75w or 500va inverter. Challenge accepted my fridge does this being a inverter type already. PS the multi 500va is 430W, my fridge tops out at 120 and then settles around 30w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 This now leads to a very complicated DB and getting someone that will COC this for you will be a challenge on its own as you will need this as you will have switching from your main system or eskom on the smaller system when cloudy conditions arrive Again simple. Second system runs from plug not Db (no coc) Second system output runs on AC isolator switchover on seperate db by means of wifi controlled contacter. It could be cloudy for a month. When that happens simply switch. Everything runs from Eskom. And everything can be fully automated. Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, viper_za said: ... my fridge tops out at 120 and then settles around 30w All lies. Prove it. Make and model ... and if it is same / similar as mine, I am going to run it off the 350VA inverter to check. BUT, we are not interested in running a fridge off a small "Milk Money" system. You guys are not "getting it". EDIT: As per @edmundp, Eskom is always there and no CoC, as it is plug driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundp Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Challenge accepted my fridge does this being a inverter type already. PS the multi 500va is 430W, my fridge tops out at 120 and then settles around 30w [emoji6] I would not risk an inverter compressor going poof on some cheapy 75w modsine inverter...? Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, edmundp said: I would not risk an inverter compressor going poof on some cheapy 75w modsine inverter...? He did change and say the 500VA ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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