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New tiny multiplus


Weasel

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@plonkster I ordered a 75w inverter, completely forgot about them(!), to try. How would it work with WiFi? Or are you referring to a charger activated by Wifi?

My plan is to have a batt and when flat, swap with other one that is charged. I have a bunch of 9ah ones spare, a large bunch.

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12 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

All lies. Prove it. Make and model ... and if it is same / similar as mine, I am going to run it off the 350VA inverter to check. :P

Easy, check last night :Ptemp.JPG

This is running my base load running.
Samsung A+ inverter fridge
Defy 210 new eco range (peaks at 900w on startup)
2x 6w Outside lights front and back.
Router 6.7w
Standby devices
PC 2.8w
Microwave 1.8w
TV 0.1w (Samsung)
Surround Sound 9.3w
Some other stuff like the alarm not measured.
Running all this with my PC or TV after food was prepared on bypass from about 17:30-18:00 till the sun gets out only brings my SOC down to 80-82% and uses between 50-55AH from the bank according to the BMV

@Weasel did say my house is insanely efficient running it's base load :D

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Easy, check last night [emoji14]temp.JPG

This is running my base load running.

Samsung A+ inverter fridge

Defy 210 new eco range (peaks at 900w on startup)

2x 6w Outside lights front and back.

Router 6.7w

Standby devices

PC 2.8w

Microwave 1.8w

TV 0.1w (Samsung)

Surround Sound 9.3w

Some other stuff like the alarm not measured.

Running all this with my PC or TV after food was prepared on bypass from about 17:30-18:00 till the sun gets out only brings my SOC down to 80-82% and uses between 50-55AH from the bank according to the BMV

@Weasel did say my house is insanely efficient running it's base load [emoji3]

I must add I also have an A+ Samsung Inverter Unit. About 50w running.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, viper_za said:

Defy 210 new eco range (peaks at 900w on startup)

This is the model I want to buy. Inverter is 1300w, powering about 550w daytime, so I know it will handle the startup current. 

I wonder if my Bosch, same as Plonksters, is also inverter ... I know it hardly uses power, as per my graphs, at night off batteries.

4 minutes ago, viper_za said:

Running all this with my PC or TV after food was prepared on bypass from about 17:30-18:00 till the sun gets out only brings my SOC down to 80-82% and uses between 50-55AH from the bank according to the BMV

Well done!!!

Now here is the thing, I am not getting 48v bank. :P

5 minutes ago, viper_za said:

2x 6w Outside lights front and back - Sommer run the entire house off-grid ito lights.
Router 6.7w - and a few more things that are on 24/7, off grid on small batt bank. See my list in previous post.
Standby devices - nothing standby, we switch off.
TV 0.1w (Samsung) and Surround Sound 9.3w - we switch off but when we are watching, small system to power same devices.

Plus the list I already mentioned, is what Ed and I deem base loads that are on 24/7, that one "needs", that does not need to be powered off the main bank for WHEN that bank needs replacement, that is the day one sits up and say: #($*&@!!! :D

Milk Money systems Viper, Milk Money systems. We have the skills, the know how, the need to play and 10 to 1, the spare parts.

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42 minutes ago, edmundp said:

Again simple. Second system runs from plug not Db (no coc) Second system output runs on AC isolator switchover on seperate db by means of wifi controlled contacter.

Please if you have some time can you put this on a drawing as I cannot see how you are going to bypass the input of the smaller system from the main system AC output or Eskom to a plug without having that needing a COC.

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Please if you have some time can you put this on a drawing as I cannot see how you are going to bypass the input of the smaller system from the main system AC output or Eskom to a plug without having that needing a COC.

Hows about I do it and then show everyone?[emoji41]

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

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22 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Plus the list I already mentioned, is what Ed and I deem base loads that are on 24/7, that one "needs", that does not need to be powered off the main bank for WHEN that bank needs replacement, that is the day one sits up and say: #($*&@!!! :D

Running like my system is gives me between 3000-4000 cycles (8-11 years) if the batteries perform to spec and this is running off grid for 95% of the day. Enough time to save up for an even bigger better bank don't you think ;)

edit
Will go to 100% when I get gas for cooking going (Except very cloudy days for bypass)

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5 minutes ago, viper_za said:

Enough time to save up for an even bigger better bank don't you think 

Jip, fair point. Flip side though is that my main bank is 24v and same as yours ito make, model, SOC and expected cycles and life, just at half the price. 

And then I "grow" my off-grid system using the coined "Milk Money" and 2nd hand batts and when we re-asses 8-11 years later, I will still be ahead of you ito battery costs. :P

Batteries are NOT cost effective in cities with Eskom and no power failures, no matter how you try and sell me that, it does not gel.

But 2nd hand batts for small systems, dang, I have a few lying around and can get more at times. Maintenance free ones, but who cares, they are free.

 

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4 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Jip, fair point. Flip side though is that my main bank is 24v and same as yours ito make, model, SOC and expected cycles and life, just at half the price.

Start including the price for your 2nd hand smaller batteries for the next 8-11 years. Think you might catch up rather sooner than you expected.
If the 2nd hand bank fails when I'm away for holiday, best case scenario my lights\alarm\router don't work but I want them to be on for security reasons and remote monitoring of my solar system?
 

6 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Batteries are NOT cost effective in cities with Eskom and no power failures, no matter how you try and sell me that, it does not gel

Agreed, but what happens when Eskom increases to that point (2-3 years from now) where its the other way around.
This did happen 5days ago "Nersa grants Eskom new price increase application"
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/energy/171187-nersa-grants-eskom-new-price-increase-application.html
Inflation on the batteries would probably be a bummer but I will be smiling all the way to the bank not needing to buy more later :D

 

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I fall asleep in front of the TV and when I wake up there are 17 replies here!

 I understand the basic idea behind the scheme, but it still comes across a little hare-brained to me. You're going to need LOAD of cheap batteries. Interesting that you should mention the 9Ah "alarm battery". I was working out the number on that around dinner time: You have to get those batteries at R50 a piece and get 500 cycles out of them before it gets anywhere near cost effective... and that's on its own.

It can be done, but I still think the real value is going to be elsewhere. Learning. Independence. Or something.

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My biggest load at night are computers that are already as low as they can be ito power i.e. the 2 x LED screens per computer using more power than the actual boxes, being Intel Xeon servers.

It would be much cheaper to switch them off ... been trying that now for many years ... than any battery system. ;)

Rest is just about off-grid, so ja, Eskom se moer, I am there IF I can switch the computers off at night - having type it here now, I MUST make that plan!

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6 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I fall asleep in front of the TV and when I wake up there are 17 replies here!

:D
This catches me too and another one, While I reply something pops up in between that I only see a week later
 

7 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It can be done, but I still think the real value is going to be elsewhere. Learning. Independence. Or something.

This is what I'm also thinking

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10 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Interesting that you should mention the 9Ah "alarm battery". I was working out the number on that around dinner time: You have to get those batteries at R50 a piece and get 500 cycles out of them before it gets anywhere near cost effective... and that's on its own.

It can be done, but I still think the real value is going to be elsewhere. Learning. Independence. Or something.

Batteries come from UPS'es, I test the batts and if they are still okey-ish, I use them till they are dead. 9ah is more for the 5 watt bed lamp.

100ah UPS batts, same story as the 9ah, are for say lights, TV.

If I was to buy them new, not a chance, project is then nowhere near as easily viable.

So guys, file this: The batts are NOT the expensive part.
And, these batts, being 2nd hand UPS batts, cannot be used in the main system either.

EDIT: And I slipped and let our Ed's secret elsewhere, no-one saw it. Will wait for him to share his plan for cheap batts. Note: I am on first deps basis for his next batch. ;)

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Here is my load, mainly the fridge, with a bunch of small things off-grid.

Stripe 1 is the Bosch and other loads, Stripe 2 is where I added the old freezer to test. 

At this rate it is going straight back onto Eskom, and up for sale soon.BMV.jpg

 

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Another injection to the topic, I had a cheap inverter long ago, Autoquip or something like that which was rated 500W, couldn't even run my 180W drill. My little Victron 350/12 on the other hand is able to run loads well over 500W, I was able to run a 850W grinder, of course not mashing down on it like a neanderthal,you know, cutting like you should. On another occasion I was also running a 300W drill press while running 2 battery chargers for power tools roughly 150W each for extended periods. My point being i'm willing to bet a 500va would handle even an older fridge without an issue. Any bets on whether or not my 350 will run my unrated fridge?

Edit: Um ok i recall trying to power a 1hp saw from the 350 and it cut out. So it probably wont. 

Edited by Weasel
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On the point of small systems, Like TTT says his batts are free so really it makes total sense. But.. the cost of inverters and charge controllers cant exactly be ignored, especially not if your a victron fanboy eh? But i agree that there are many cases where it is viable and economical to run small systems.

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11 hours ago, edmundp said:

A hint perhaps. Google "Itead Sonoff"...

Ed: Do you have some of these and are you using a pc to trigger the commands?

 

I like the AC In and OUT option.. no 5V or 12V input...

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6 minutes ago, Mark said:

Ed: Do you have some of these and are you using a pc to trigger the commands?

 

I like the AC In and OUT option.. no 5V or 12V input...

Not yet... can be had at Communica for 160 ish each. Android app seems decent. They also have a document describing how to control them locally via MQTT.

It's basically a ready packaged ESP8266 module with AC conversion built in. 10A switching power = 2200W. Not bad.

You also get a wifi + RF remote version and a low voltage version running from 5 - 24V DC I think.

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5 hours ago, Weasel said:

.. the cost of inverters and charge controllers cant exactly be ignored, especially not if your a victron fanboy eh? But i agree that there are many cases where it is viable and economical to run small systems.

Spot on, I have the spare parts i.e. 350VA Victron inverter that has had surgery twice (***) and survived, controller and panels.

And the cost of a small 600w pure sine wave inverter +-R1200 or R195 for a 75w modified sine wave one, worth the experiment. ;)

*** For those who don't know:
Once someone, not me, swapped Pos and Neg - supplier could not fix, pal did it, Ed now move the fuse outside for me.
Once it was connected to 24v batteries, instead of 12v - caps are now replaced that can handle 24v IF I am stupid again.

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6 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Once it was connected to 24v batteries, instead of 12v - caps are now replaced that can handle 24v IF I am stupid again.

You do that for a second time I'll personally come down to Cape Town and kick your butt. The hassle is now something else, perhaps more critical, will blow. Ed has probably made it bullet proof (or at least TTT proof) :D.

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