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Pylontech vs Hubble


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1 hour ago, FixAMess said:

Now that is worrying!

It used to be 7 plus an additional 3 if you registered your batteries.....I wonder if this is for the new batteries only, or all pylontechs ever bought!

 

it is still 10yrs, I bought my batteries recently and registered them. 

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15 minutes ago, hoohloc said:

From what I know, the warranty is 10yrs, not 7 or 5 years. You have 5 years standard warranty and that gets extended by another 5 years when you register your battery on their website. I will try and get my registration confirmation letter and attach here when I get a chance  

According to the warranty documentation its 5 years with a ton of terms and conditions read them here and yes you have to register your battery to get an extended warranty I assume on the US5000 then you will only get 7 years I may be wrong..

Pylontech_product_warranty_UP5000 serie-Standard_2020.pdf

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9 minutes ago, Boerseun said:

According to the warranty documentation its 5 years with a ton of terms and conditions read them here and yes you have to register your battery to get an extended warranty I assume on the US5000 then you will only get 7 years I may be wrong..

Pylontech_product_warranty_UP5000 serie-Standard_2020.pdf 462.93 kB · 1 download

I can not comment much about the UP5000 serie, it might be 7 years. Not really sure, but my US2000 definitely have 10 years warranty and I have a confirmation letter from Pylontech for that 🙂

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Warranty is one thing, functionality is another. Most end users don't understand the limitations of a 0.5C battery. And yes, you can add more batteries to give you a better C rating overall but that just unnecessarily adds to the cost. My personal view is that Pylontech isn't worth it.

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Well for a poorly made battery I must say that it is performing outstanding in tests that are underway for the past 4 years in Australia. It is keeping up and even surpassing top battery brands.

For the record I do not own or have owned a Pylontech battery.

The testing site can be reached here:

BatteryTestingReport9Sept2020.pdf (batterytestcentre.com.au)

 

BYD.PNG

Pylon.PNG

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16 hours ago, Leshen said:

Warranty is one thing, functionality is another. Most end users don't understand the limitations of a 0.5C battery. And yes, you can add more batteries to give you a better C rating overall but that just unnecessarily adds to the cost. My personal view is that Pylontech isn't worth it.

What batteries do you recommend that are price competitive, offer a 10 yr warranty (TBC) and easily talk to an inverter AND most importantly have a BMS that is robust?

I'm not being arsey, I'm asking a serious question.

A point to ponder is, if the battery has its own BMS and the BMS manages the load etc., it should compensate for  the 0.5C limitation..

My BMS says I can draw 111A from the batteries (3 pylontechs), the highest I've ever seen drawn is 80A so I'm not sure if it can ever get to 111A. Also the pylontech cables are not rated for 100A, so that's another problem with the std setup.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GVC said:

Well for a poorly made battery I must say that it is performing outstanding in tests that are underway for the past 4 years in Australia. It is keeping up and even surpassing top battery brands.

For the record I do not own or have owned a Pylontech battery.

The testing site can be reached here:

BatteryTestingReport9Sept2020.pdf (batterytestcentre.com.au)

 

BYD.PNG

Pylon.PNG

Not only that, when they are stacked in a rack or on the brackets and connected, they look so attractive and neat. Makes any installation look tops, no one worries about the internal look. Pylons for me, any day any time

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I missed the Bull battery specs on page 1...

They are 1C, but also 80% DoD, max DoD to 90%, 5500-7000 Cycles, 1 cycle per day (!!) [email protected]% of new capacity....

BUT read the small print, only warranty to 5000 cycles!!

So the deciding issue is cost and BMS + compatibility.

I don't see how these are better (on paper) than the pylontechs.....

A long term side by side test would be interesting. All the battery suppliers understate the fade over X cycles...(as shown by AU testing)  

Capture.PNG

Edited by FixAMess
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Are these locally manufactured? Is it possible to get parts for them - I know people have been unable to get replacement BMS/comms boards for the Pylontechs that have been affected by damage not covered by the warranty. If hubble can provide parts (at a decent price) that would put them way ahead of pylontech in my books...

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23 hours ago, FixAMess said:

What batteries do you recommend that are price competitive, offer a 10 yr warranty (TBC) and easily talk to an inverter AND most importantly have a BMS that is robust?

I'm not being arsey, I'm asking a serious question.

A point to ponder is, if the battery has its own BMS and the BMS manages the load etc., it should compensate for  the 0.5C limitation..

My BMS says I can draw 111A from the batteries (3 pylontechs), the highest I've ever seen drawn is 80A so I'm not sure if it can ever get to 111A. Also the pylontech cables are not rated for 100A, so that's another problem with the std setup.

 

 

I prefer either Hubble or Bull. 
 

Your BMS is correct regarding 111A as you have 3 x 3.5kwh Pylontechs (I stand corrected). That’s a total of 10.5kwh yet you can only use 5.3kw at any given time from those batteries. Take just 2 x 5.5 Hubble batteries and you can draw 200A which is almost double. The Bull battery can deliver 210A from 2 x 5.1kwh. It won’t matter on a 5kw inverter however when an 8kw Sunsynk needs more than what the battery can deliver, and yes it does happen, then the Pylontechs do not deliver when the same size battery bank is used compared to a Hubble or Bull. 

The pic below shows 6660kw being delivered to the batteries at 130A with 2 x 5.1kwh Bull batteries. Your 3 x 3.5kwh Pylontechs simply cannot do that. 

Please note that I have had Pylontechs in the past so I’m familiar with all three brands. 
 

 

FC63B549-C78D-47A4-BD99-7052BE67D127.jpeg

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22 hours ago, hoohloc said:

Not only that, when they are stacked in a rack or on the brackets and connected, they look so attractive and neat. Makes any installation look tops, no one worries about the internal look. Pylons for me, any day any time

Hubble vs Pylontech  AB9008EC-0C27-4B67-8941-B426950D4556.thumb.jpeg.d0b8c379e955998c2a4d00a27f8a87a9.jpeg7F4D0113-4AA3-4CC3-8C58-F46145255FE8.thumb.jpeg.d1c6105b171cf27f529d1e8caf84c77a.jpeg

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On 2021/02/12 at 8:14 AM, P1000 said:

Are these locally manufactured? Is it possible to get parts for them - I know people have been unable to get replacement BMS/comms boards for the Pylontechs that have been affected by damage not covered by the warranty. If hubble can provide parts (at a decent price) that would put them way ahead of pylontech in my books...

Hi P1000,

 

First of all interesting post. We have been following it and not commenting as to stay neutral.

Regarding spares.
- BMS: Our BMS units are manufactured in the East and they are double coated to prevent corrosion. The BMS have been approved for Telecomms and datacentres and has CE approval etc. We have 2 service centres, JHB and CT. We order a 5% spare holding over the required minimum for BMS units per container. We currently have local spares of BMS units in JHB & CT. To date we have not had a BMS fail. We have had LCD display issues on 2 batteries but we swapped out the screen. We currently have over 60 spare full BMS boards available with more spares arriving monthly.

The BMS we use can deliver 150Amps continuous output and input. Our AM-2 batteries are set to deliver up to 120Amp output per battery. The BMS is over specced for what we use, but we prefer this as the components run cooler, this is why we have not had a BMS failure in any unit so far. The problem with overspeccing the BMS is all the component prices increase and cables are bigger, so cost increase is a factor.
 

- Cells: We have spare cells that we can swap out with our units, but you also have to condition the cells and give them a top up charge every 6-8 months so they do not undervoltage and get damaged. To date we have not replaced any cells. If there is a issue we swap the full battery pack out if its new or there is issues within a week after install etc.

We also do not want to overcapatalise on older cells as the technology is moving very fast and cells get more energy dense every year. 

Hope that helps. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HubbleLithium
typo
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A very interesting topic here and happy to put my two cents in. I have my own opinions of Pylontech batteries, this is not the platform to air them though. I prefer to make sure that people can get a better understanding of the products they purchase.

 

We supply and I do the support for the BSL battery, what you have all come to know as the Bull Battery, and I am involved heavily behind the scenes with the battery and manufacture of it. A few of you I recognise as people I have actually dealt with and personally helped in setting up systems with the BSL's. We can guarantee the battery in our efforts to always improve and maintain a very high standard when it comes to the product. BSL has made sure that not only is the product of a high standard, but also that the after market service is always available, giving you peace of mind that there is always support when needed.

 

The BSL's BMS is robust, heavily tested and our efforts to make sure of comms capabilities gives us a little edge over some of the others in the market. No battery is ever perfect and they all have their pros and cons, but those manufacturers who put in the effort to better their product continuously will always be a better option than companies who give you something they say works and don't offer anything further than that. Over the past six months that I have been involved with the BSL, I have seen the engineering and updating of the batteries first hand, watching them evolve and advance with the more we learn. Learning is a key aspect of the process and giving the best is always the goal. 

We always maintain the ability to replace any part of our batteries if the need so arises, so that aspect is taken care of.

 

As for cycle life on batteries, please don't use this as a given on any battery. No manufacturer can tell you exactly what their battery will do over ten, fifteen or even twenty years, not in a market that is so new in comparison to other markets who have been around for far longer. The biggest problem is that people expect electrical engineers to tell you what chemical engineers actually know.... So there is still much learning and the future will be even more interesting. The BSL is rated to 5000 cycles at 80% DOD and comes with a ten year warranty as standard, but the design life is actually 20 years and the cells will obviously last accordingly to your usage and exertion on the battery, as with any battery.

 

I will be doing some testing on other locally available batteries, I am very keen to see what the market has to offer and how they all compare, this is one of the goals we have for this year. As for Pylontech, they have their place in the market and they aren't going anywhere soon, just bare in mind that companies such as Hubble and BSL are always making advancements and they offer the local support which you won't get from some other big brand names. 

 

Hope you all walk away with something from this thread today

 

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Frankly, in 5 yrs time all the batteries we have now will be "old fashioned", in the same way as Lead Acid is so yesterday,  today.

If we assume that the battery technology is pretty much the same across brands and that a BMS is not a unique item on a battery then it comes down to after sales service and the batteries ability to "talk" to the inverter.

The other issue with most battery buyers is we buy what we can afford today and then hope to buy more batteries later on.

With the pylontechs, I have just bought another battery, not because I needed it, but because they are upgrading so quickly that in the future the newer battery may no longer be backward compatible with the 3 I had previously...Its a case of buy now or the batteries in the future will not be compatible with the current setup..

 

Edited by FixAMess
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51 minutes ago, FixAMess said:

Frankly, in 5 yrs time all the batteries we have now will be "old fashioned", in the same way as Lead Acid is so yesterday,  today.

If we assume that the battery technology is pretty much the same across brands and that a BMS is not a unique item on a battery then it comes down to after sales service and the batteries ability to "talk" to the inverter.

The other issue with most battery buyers is we buy what we can afford today and then hope to buy more batteries later on.

With the pylontechs, I have just bought another battery, not because I needed it, but because they are upgrading so quickly that in the future the newer battery may no longer be backward compatible with the 3 I had previously...Its a case of buy now or the batteries in the future will not be compatible with the current setup..

 

This is a very important point and something that needs to be addressed by more manufacturers.

With the BSL, no matter what has been physically done to the battery and how the internal setup has changed, there has been a drive to make sure that all the batteries within their range are comms capable and able to be paralleled with each other. So the older 5,1kW battery is able to integrate with the 6.4kW battery, this is because the current BMS and firmware are setup to do so. This is of course over a one year period. Further down the line and as advancements in technology come, there might be issues here but that is unfortunately something that happens with technology. You can't compare or swop parts on a car model from ten years ago to its current model now.

So we all need to be aware that the market will forever be shifting, new chemistries and technologies will always drive advancements and we need to keep up with this. Making sure the brands who stay ahead of the curve are the ones to support and watch in the market becomes a future grow point for all our businesses in ten years and we grow the industry in a world leading way with the best for the market in mind. If you are going to keep supporting the people who are on the same loop all the time, you can't complain later on when everyone else is miles down the road and you are stuck in the same loop.

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On 2021/02/10 at 11:02 AM, Leshen said:

Good day guys.

Just a quick post with some pictures on what the popular Pylontech batteries look like on the inside vs the latest Hubble battery. Big difference on the quality. Some corrosion already occuring on the Pylontech. Hubble has BYD NMC prismatic cells and its 1C.

1b21124a-c742-4536-9e28-27523d61a33f.JPG

8eb5ec47-772f-4682-94b8-ae91f1bf8747.JPG

723d7024-facb-4f91-88f7-70570b7d09c1.JPG

e2a26bc3-1b0d-4f13-b592-c93da9611351.JPG

I get that you guys have to punt your own product, but dissing somebody else's to make yours look good doesn't make me want to go out and buy hubbles. If your product is good, word will get around, your reputation will grow and with it your market share.

Plus it's not like you're some objective 3rd party with nothing to gain or lose from your analysis.

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2 hours ago, Denarius said:

I bought my Pylontechs due to the empiric evidence of this report a few years ago.  Would love to see a South African battery dominate that report.

Good point to the Hubble and Bull people...Get your batteries tested by an independent 3rd party and you'll be well on.your way from a global perspective. 

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