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3 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

@HubbleLithium

Some interesting facts in this already, but I hope you can share some more info since there seems to be quite a debate raging on here. It might be a good chance to hear from you, a manufacturer, so we can make an informed decision. You know, before we all rush out and just buy the colour battery that matches our eyes :P 

- I was under the impression that lithium cells can deliver a lot more than 1C, so if they're 120AH cells then wouldn't that make a 150A BMS... underspec'd?

- It doesn't sound like you make the BMS board yourselves, is this a 3rd party unit that you've integrated?

- You've had some issues with the LCDs (They look like just 12864 boards similar to those you find on 3D printers?). Do you have plans to upgrade this in near future? Or is the best recommendation for reliability to rather get the unit without an LCD?

- How many units have you supplied, so that the "no failures to date" claim can have some context? And how long have they been in service?

- I'm confused about the conditioning you mention, every 6-8 months. How does one do this? I thought the main selling point of lithium batteries was that they didn't have such a "charge memory"? Can this not be built into the BMS, if it's important for retaining charge cycles?

 

Hope it doesn't sound like I'm against Hubble batteries - I'm just trying to find out a bit more about them, because I might need a couple of new batteries in the near future, and I'm weighing up options :) 

 

Hi P1000,

 

Alot of questions. Im going to make it short.

1. I only know of 1 company in SA that makes their own BMS, we looked at this but it's just too expensive compared to industry leading imported and international certified BMS units.
2. No charge memory but if they drain flat they damaged.
3. Our BYD and CATL cells are rated 2.5C. You can discharge and charge them at 2.5C but their life goes down a bit and there is no need to have 250Amp drawn out of a 48V system usually. We can install a 2.5C BMS, but it will increase the cost of the battery way too high and will be out of market related prices. If we do this then there is no market to sell to.

Further to this we are testing and developing a 192V, 3C, 192V lithium pack. But this is still a year or so off. This is more for UPS enviroments for short high power demands.


 

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If I were Hubble I would would pay Leshen to stop posting.  Literally destroying the reputation of a up and coming brand talking smack. Unfortunately for now, the damage is already done. 

Hi Community, Seems the forum is decending into just degrading brands and negative commenting which is very unfortunate, as the powerforum is a great wealth of knowledge for power backup and sola

Good day guys. Just a quick post with some pictures on what the popular Pylontech batteries look like on the inside vs the latest Hubble battery. Big difference on the quality. Some corrosion alr

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13 minutes ago, Brani said:

Ok let me understand. What can Sunsynk do and Victron can’t?

Having said that, I think Sunsynk is a great inverter for money spent. 

The best definition for me as to what a Hybrid inverter is, is that it can work with or without batteries. While the Victron cannot work without batteries a Sunsynk can. 

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17 minutes ago, GVC said:

This is what you said: "Victron being such a great brand still cannot produce an MPPT over 250v"

 

Yes they cannot in a "HYBRID" inverter... The best we South Africans know is a 250v MPPT. I love how the Victron fan club defend nonsense, read the fine print regarding the MPPT - MPPT operating range is also constrained by battery voltage - PV VOC should not exceed 8x battery float voltage, e.g. a 50V battery voltage maximum should have 400V maximum PV array. – see product manual for further information. That RS Smart Solar that you quoted, is that a Hybrid inverter? 

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20 minutes ago, HubbleLithium said:

Hi P1000,

 

Alot of questions. Im going to make it short.

1. I only know of 1 company in SA that makes their own BMS, we looked at this but it's just too expensive compared to industry leading imported and international certified BMS units.
2. No charge memory but if they drain flat they damaged.
3. Our BYD and CATL cells are rated 2.5C. You can discharge and charge them at 2.5C but their life goes down a bit and there is no need to have 250Amp drawn out of a 48V system usually. We can install a 2.5C BMS, but it will increase the cost of the battery way too high and will be out of market related prices. If we do this then there is no market to sell to.

Further to this we are testing and developing a 192V, 3C, 192V lithium pack. But this is still a year or so off. This is more for UPS enviroments for short high power demands.


 

Hi Bertinator4000

 

Thanks for some answers... No need to make it short though, I'd really rather have answers to all the questions. Not so much ones that I didn't ask about unrelated products :P

Repeat again:

- Is a 150A BMS over spec'd when the cells are able to reach 2.5C?

- What's the deal with the LCDs?

- How many units supplied?

- How long have they been in market?

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38 minutes ago, Leshen said:

Yes they cannot in a "HYBRID" inverter... The best we South Africans know is a 250v MPPT. I love how the Victron fan club defend nonsense, read the fine print regarding the MPPT - MPPT operating range is also constrained by battery voltage - PV VOC should not exceed 8x battery float voltage, e.g. a 50V battery voltage maximum should have 400V maximum PV array. – see product manual for further information. That RS Smart Solar that you quoted, is that a Hybrid inverter? 

 

Leshen.png

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34 minutes ago, Jaco De Jongh said:

 

Leshen.png

Quoted from the Vicron website...

Off-Grid solar inverter

The Inverter RS Smart Solar 48/6000 is a 48V 6kVA Inverter with 450VDC 4kWp PV input. It is used in off-grid solar applications where AC power is required.

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3 hours ago, Brani said:

What exactly do you mean by "Hybrid"?

A Hybrid inverter is one that primarily can blend Grid AC input and PV and/or battery input and supply that to the load. For example, take a Goodwe, Solis, Sunsynk, Fronius Gen24, Infinisolar, those are single units that have the ability to do all of that, each with a high voltage MPPT and battery input. For a Victron to achieve that, you need to have a battery inverter ie the Multiplus or Quattro, MPPTs and Controller, to achieve all that a true Hybrid can. This would cost 3 times as much. Now the Victron guys will argue this and say that an Easysolar is a hybrid however an Easysolar is just separate components packed together in a steel box to make it easier to install. 

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22 minutes ago, Jaco De Jongh said:

 

Lesbian2.PNG

Jaco, once again you misquote Victron manuals only to misinform the public. Yes it has a 450w MPPT, but it’s far from being a Hybrid.
How about you show me which Victron 8kw  Hybrid inverter can compete with a Sunsynk 8kw? Or does it not exist?

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1 hour ago, Leshen said:

For a Victron to achieve that, you need to have a battery inverter ie the Multiplus or Quattro, MPPTs and Controller, to achieve all that a true Hybrid can. This would cost 3 times as much. 

Yet it can be achieved. Not sure about 3 times as much, but definitely much more expensive. Modular approach always costs more but gives more flexibility. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Leshen said:

Now the Victron guys will argue this and say that an Easysolar is a hybrid however an Easysolar is just separate components packed together in a steel box to make it easier to install. 

How is that different to any other hybrid? They are also in one box and have the same components inside.

Just claiming a brand can’t do something because you dislike it, doesn’t do other brand justice. Both brands of inverters have a place in the market. 
 

We are still waiting for Hubble questions to be answered 

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9 hours ago, Brani said:

Yet it can be achieved. Not sure about 3 times as much, but definitely much more expensive. Modular approach always costs more but gives more flexibility. 
 

 

How is that different to any other hybrid? They are also in one box and have the same components inside.

Just claiming a brand can’t do something because you dislike it, doesn’t do other brand justice. Both brands of inverters have a place in the market. 
 

We are still waiting for Hubble questions to be answered 

Well these are just prices that I searched on Google. 
1. Sunsynk 8kw Hybrid Inverter R33000, 10400w MPPT. 

2. Victron 8kw Quattro R57000

3. Victron 250/85 4900w MPPT R15499 x 2 

4 Venus GX R5100

Victron totals to R93100. 

I didn’t even quote the thicker solar cable required due to the low voltage MPPT and all the comms cables. I think R33000 vs R93100 is significant. Almost 3 times as much. 
 

Easysolar is different in that it was an afterthought. Take a company like Fronius, who never had a Hybrid inverter and due to new technology, they have developed the Gen24. They certainly didn’t do what Victron did. Do you really think it would be ok if Sunsynk took 2 x 8kw Inverters and stuffed it into a metal box and called it a 16kw single phase inverter?
 

Goodwe is a great brand, which I owned but it cannot be paralleled. That’s just fact. Doesn’t make me dislike it. Go read my post carefully before you misquote me. I never said I disliked Victron. I said I understand the limitations of each brand including the Sunsynk I own. I certainly won’t get defensive if someone said that a Sunsynk’s fans are too loud or that the SOLARMAN app isn’t that great. 


 

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9 hours ago, Jaco De Jongh said:

😀

I am showing you the error in what you said about the MPPT, I am not saying anything about any Hybrids, but to be honest, I did not expect you to understand. 

Many people battle with trying to understand you. 

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15 hours ago, Boerseun said:

Dumb question what cable thickness are we running there ? Was this installed by a professional installer ? To me that looks like the Standard Pylon 25mm2 Cable and it looks like one set of 4 x US2000 =100Amp constant load max and 4 x US3000=128Amp  constant load Max. What size inverter is connected ? Context I bet the Installer installed a 160 AMP Fuse and Fuse Holder and its 160 Amp on the Pos and 160 amp on the neg..? So can any of the Solar Specialists here please tell me what the maximum amp rating for a 25mm2 Battery cable is? Also lets say the cable is 2 meters long with a voltage of 48VDC or what the recommended cable thickness for a Load of 100 amp @ 48v DC that is equal to 4.8KW the continuous load for the 4 x US2000 batteries and the 4 x US3000 Batteries can deliver 128 Amp @ 48v what is the recommended cable thickness for that maximum load which is equal to 6.144 KW ?

Exactly correct. The reason being that thicker battery cables become a real mess when bending around tight corners and when trying to fit connectors.

But, yes, point taken.

My installer is a professional... um... 'troublemaker' (it's what most people consider me). I qualified at the Suck-it-and-see academy.

You'd be wrong about the fuses. I used monstrous Mersen battery disconnect/fuse holders with 200A fuses because... see above.

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