PeterGutti Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hi everbody! The local installer is not able to fix the following problem: Installed are 24x1500Ah batteries PowerSave OPzV (48V), 2 Apert 5kVA inverters in parallel mode (master and salve) and a diesel generator of 7kVA. The generator currently is connected to only one inverter (from both, as, i hoped, that it would work with only one) The problem is that when the generator starts (manually, later automatically by the Victron Batt Monitor) it does not get connected to the Axpert charging function. The Axpert Display shows the AC input but no line to the inverter: It recognizes the AC current, but ??? See attached foto. The PDF attached contains the configuration (most recent paramter to the right) Has anybody out there running a configuration like this up and running? What could i change to make it go? Configuration-Axpert Inverter.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 What frequency is the Gen running at? A wild guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 What version firmware are you running? Earlier versions had issues with some generators. Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 More information on he generator please, kw, diesel / petrol, age, make and model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 From past experience, you need to upgrade the Axpert inverter firmware to "72 40" or so. But your generator also needs to run at a stable-ish 50Hz at stable voltages. Are both your inverters' feed connected to Eskom? Then surely the genset should be connected to both as well, but I don't know if the Axpert's will work with a genset in parallel mode. This is kinda "uncharted territory" Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulomb Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I think you might have to have the same AC input connected to both invertets, if paralleled. But I would have expected an error or at least warning if that was the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGutti Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Firmware: U1 = 52 30. There is no "U2" Gen frequency set to 50Hz. I will try to find the real frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGutti Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 I forgot to mention that when disconnecting the PV panels, or during the night when no power comes from the panels, the generator does get connected and charges the batteries. Also, before i installed the second inverter i used only one with only 12 PV panels. In this configuration the gen connected always (day and night). My intention is, that the generator starts automatically whenever the battery voltage falls below ~47,5V. This can happen during days and nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGutti Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 To upgrade firmware what software do you recommend? I'm running only Aple Mac on a MacBookPro. Can one break the inverter when the formware upgrade is not working properly? In what status the inverter has to be for upgrading the firmware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 U2 only displays if the SCC is active. 52.30 is problematic with generators I have 72.40 and have no hassles with gennie power . I have only seen firmware update for PC. Updates for Mac may exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulomb Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I think you'll need to borrow or buy a Windows PC for thr upgrade, sadly. Small notebooks are relatively inexpensive, but I agree it's a shame to force people to use Windows. You could use a Virtual Machine on your Mac, but you'd need a Windows license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I use a Virtual installation of Windows XP to run the software for my inverter on a Linux machine. The only caveat: watch out for unintended disconnections. On the Multiplus (different inverter, but I'm sure some things apply generically), a firmware update turns the inverter off and back on. So if you power the laptop from the inverter... or if you use a real computer, you're going to lose power in the middle. Also, in virtual box (the virtualisation we use on Linux) you have the option of patching through certain USB devices automatically, when they are seen by the host OS they are automatically attached to the virtual windows host. You want to set it up this way. I've seen interesting results when the power cycle (especially where a hub is involved) cause the USB device to disappear from the virtual host, and then it doesn't come back automatically until you manually reattach it to the virtual host. So basically, you should be able to do it with a virtual host, just set it up to patch the USB to the virtual machine automatically and make sure your battery on the laptop is full :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Coulomb said: ... it's a shame to force people to use Windows. It is not about forcing anyone, it is about the economics re. the cost to maintain more than one source code. Having had a huge debate here, we as Windows developers, do not have the time to learn Linux and in this case, also the Apple environment. At one point you have to say no. Translating what Plonkster said, if your inverter is powering the house, best you use a laptop when you upgrade the firmware. Why? If the power goes off because say inverter is rebooting, you may interruption the firmware update. It is the quickest way to 'brick' a device. What is "bricking" a device (for the layman)? When the firmware on the device gets corrupted, it is bricked. You cannot continue, or reverse the update therefor all the device is good for is as a brick, doorstop. Most devices can be fixed if you know how, or send it back to supplier to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNodashi Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 The Axpert switches off during the firmware upgrade process, which takes about 30 minutes. Make sure your laptop battery is good. Or be prepared to redo it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 27 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: bricking According to what Coulomb said a while ago, if the firmware don't verify, it remains in bootloader mode. So you can re-flash, it doesn't brick that easily. viper_za 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 28 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: do not have the time to learn Linux Over the years I've read many papers about the importance of learning new tools. You have to get a balance somehow. viper_za 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 31 minutes ago, plonkster said: Over the years I've read many papers about the importance of learning new tools. You have to get a balance somehow. That balance is the problem. Out of Interest: You have not kept your Windows skill up to date ne? 38 minutes ago, plonkster said: So you can re-flash, it doesn't brick that easily. That is very cool then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 7 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said: Out of Interest: You have not kept your Windows skill up to date ne? What's changed since 1995? Yeah I know, lot's has changed in the core, but on the surface, what's REALLY changed? I'll tell you what. The start button went away and came back. The rest is still exactly the same. The command shell is still as limited and irritating as it was in the command.com days. It still comes without a compiler. It still comes without a decent editor. It still comes without a decent browser. You still have to pay for a word processor (or install the open source one). So I can still help myself on a windows machine if I have to. I prefer not to do it. Haven't lost the skill though... it's just like swimming through thick syrupy molasses. Every now and then one of the Windows slaves in the Jenkins setup breaks and I have to get in there... thankfully... that doesn't happen too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper_za Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, plonkster said: thankfully... that doesn't happen too often. Cause its running Windows PaulF007 and Chris Hobson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Just now, viper_za said: Cause its running Windows Left myself wide open for that! No, because it doesn't do anything. It literally sits there doing just one thing: Building the windows versions of the source. Occasionally they fall over and then we restart them. Virtual hosts. The only place where Windows is still allowed. Real hardware is too valuable to waste it on windows. Chris Hobson and viper_za 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobie Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 23 hours ago, PeterGutti said: I forgot to mention that when disconnecting the PV panels, or during the night when no power comes from the panels, the generator does get connected and charges the batteries. Also, before i installed the second inverter i used only one with only 12 PV panels. In this configuration the gen connected always (day and night). My intention is, that the generator starts automatically whenever the battery voltage falls below ~47,5V. This can happen during days and nights. After having a look at your photo an reading your pdf I noticed that you had setting 1 on SBU, meaning that the inverter will take power from SOLAR, BATTERY then UTILITY, in that order. If you set it to UTI it will accept utility power as priority and only use battery and solar when utility is not available. This would explain why the inverter is seeing the AC but not accepting it, it's running from solar. When the solar is disconnected or not generating (at night) the inverter will accept UTILITY to charge batteries and supply the load. Try changing setting 1 to UTI and see if it helps Chris Hobson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGutti Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 A happy day today: After upgrading the Inverters to level 72.40 (i bought an old HP Powerbook for that) the generator now gets connected! The installer would was surprised as he already had a 600€ charger brougth with him. This is now saved money! One little problem i had: Because Watchpower starts automatically the com port was somehow locked for the upgrade program. So i had to reboot several times. After re-configuring (as the parameters got lost) all worked fine. Thank you all for the hints and tips i got from this forum. Chris Hobson, viper_za, Noobie and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hobson Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 A saving of 600€ (nearly R10k) is reason enough to celebrate! ___ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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